If you're hoping to still get an experimental mutagen along with the companion, you may be out of luck. Otherwise, assuming that d20pfsrd's entry for both of these archetypes is accurate, they seem to stack. Again, you just won't have a mutagen.
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Yeah. It seems they would stack since the experimental mutagen text says that
"At 2nd level, an Oenopion researcher learns how to create an experimental mutagen that benefits others, though not as well as his normal mutagen."
Mmeaning it is separate from a mutagen. Just not as good as a normal mutagen.
It's not the description of the experimental mutagen. It's when you create one:
"The researcher decides when he creates the mutagen if it is a standard mutagen (which gives no benefit if another creature drinks it) or an experimental mutagen (which does)"
Since you are no longer creating the standard mutagen, you never get to the point where you're deciding between then two. Therefore, you create neither.
Of course. Apologies, I think I managed to overlook that bit.
IF d20pfsrd.com is accurate on these two archetypes, they stack.
Neither have abilities that claim they replace, alter or modify the same class feature, despite the description of Experimental Mutagen. Archetype rules are that you can take multiple, so long as they don't overlap in that way.
IF you take both, you do not gain your experimental mutagen, since you are at no point deciding to create the regular mutagen.
IF you take the Mutagen alchemist discovery, it functions as the class ability. You are then capable of making the standard mutagen, and thus capable of deciding if you want to make an experimental mutagen.
The mutagen alchemist discovery states...
(This discovery exists so alchemist archetypes who have variant mutagens, such as the mindchemist, can learn how to make standard mutagens.)
Arguably, this discovery is able to be taken in spite of the archetype that has replaced the original mutagen class ability.
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what is your reasoning to allow the experimental mutagen? because past posts and even Bane Wraith have all said that since it says you choose between mutagen or experimental mutagen, if one is missing you cant have the other.
are you saying that, since you dont have mutagen you just automatically take the experimental?
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Yes.
The Oenopian Researcher archetype does not give up mutagen and thus they needed to include an explanation of the difference in handling between the two... adding an archetype which removes mutagen makes that difference and the need to choose obsolete, but does NOT also remove experimental mutagen. It is a separate ability.
Ergo, you still have experimental mutagen... just not normal mutagen.
Alternatively, it could be argued that 'experimental mutagen' alters the mutagen class feature, even though the text does not say so, and therefore that the two archetypes would not stack at all. Again, I'd be inclined to allow it, but there is room for argument.
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i agree with you. its like...say i want to make pancakes. i think to myself "i could even make blueberry pancakes." then i realize i dont have blueberries. that doesnt mean i cant make pancakes anymore, it just means i can only have regular ones.
thats how i see it. so, ill make it and play it until someone says i cant. then i just wont play that character at their table.
Missed that bit about not being allowed to take the mutagen alchemist discovery. Damn. My mistake
..I disagree that the experimental mutagen ability can be used on its own. Unfortunately, even though you get the experimental mutagen ability, it's still phrased to be dependent on the mutagen ability.
"The researcher decides when he creates the mutagen ..."
It only comes into play when you create a mutagen. Since you are no longer capable of creating one, you no longer have the option to decide, and the rest of the ability is moot.
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"The researcher decides when he creates the mutagen if it is a standard mutagen (which gives no benefit if another creature drinks it) or an experimental mutagen (which does); there is no difference in the cost, time to create, or any other aspect of the mutagen."
one or the other. take one away and you have one left. you still have ONE option remaining.
you have apples. take one away. you dont have zero apples left. you have one left.
you have a mutagen and an experimental mutagen. take away mutagen. you still have the experimental mutagen left. not zero options.
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"If the researcher has discoveries or other abilities that alter or increase the benefits of the mutagen, these apply to the experimental mutagen (though the drinker only gets half the numerical bonus of the mutagen)."
This segment also implies that the experimental mutagen is separate of a mutagen, yet affected by the same things that would affect a normal mutagen. Meaning it is a different thing and not dependant on the 1st level mutagen.
Unfortunately, I'm taking quite a literal stance on this question. The literal reading shows you never get to have that choice (Between the now removed mutagen or the new experimental mutagen) in the first place, because the condition on which you get to make that choice is never met
If your argument is that you should read beyond that "When he creates a mutagen"... Pretend that doesn't exist as a condition to use this ability... Then you are on the wrong forum. If you are arguing that it would be the rules as intended, but not as written, feel free to try and convince your GM of that.
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The literal translation would be that it does due to the fact that at thr very beginning of the ability it state that
"At 2nd level, an Oenopion researcher learns how to create an experimental mutagen that benefits others, though not as well as his normal mutagen."
It is a different mutagen. It doesnt work as well as a "normal" mutagen and it is gained at 2nd.
Coupled with the fact that it says "This ability replaces poison use."
Instead of "This ability alters mutagen the alchemists mutagen."
This has not been FAQ'd, nor has an errata been released since 2011 when the source book came out, leads me to believe it does not rely upon a regular mutagen.