Uh, yeah, only certain 16th+ level characters are privy to how to free trapped souls. That ain't right.
Not to mention it's completely impractical for what you're suggesting they were for. It takes years to transform evil souls into Devils. They weren't doing it to give themselves an edge in the revolution, they did it because they were insane and spiteful.
Those are the same people who would be using them and all you would need is one to tell how and the secret is out.
Who said you need them to be turned into devils? Moloch literally uses souls as fuel for his war engines and doesn't require them to be his worshipers as his followers can sacrifice someone in his name and into the fires they go. For a more direct route the devils can just let their enemies see what they are doing to the souls of the loved ones as psychological warfare. Devils are almost as creative as daemons when it comes to what they can do with a soul. Turning them into other devils is the least of their options.
Except no one has told that secret, and none of the Gray Gardeners will.
That applies to ALL Fiends. What are you suggesting, just soul trap everyone?
If you were directly fighting them it would be a good way to protect your own. I know I would prefer to spend a few years in soul bind Limbo as oppose to being at the mercy of the devil whose plans I messed up. In most fights it would be unnecessary and overkill but when you are actively fighting Fiends? Yeah I would feel better with a safety net.
And you protect your own with Guillotines...
Would you prefer the longsword through the gut?
War isn't pretty. Even less so when you are the little dog in the fight going up against a big well trained warhound. MAD is a tactic that only because no one likes it.
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And you protect your own with Guillotines...Would you prefer the longsword through the gut?
War isn't pretty. Even less so when you are the little dog in the fight going up against a big well trained warhound. MAD is a tactic that only because no one likes it.
Seeing as how I don't worship Devils? Yep.
Seeing as how I don't worship Devils? Yep.And you protect your own with Guillotines...Would you prefer the longsword through the gut?
War isn't pretty. Even less so when you are the little dog in the fight going up against a big well trained warhound. MAD is a tactic that only because no one likes it.
Again, it calls out regularly that you don't have to. All that is needed is that the guy that kills you does and takes a few moments to kill you in a certain way. The who gets your soul equation in Golarion is VERY skewed toward the Fiends.
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Again, it calls out regularly that you don't have to. All that is needed is that the guy that kills you does and takes a few moments to kill you in a certain way. The who gets your soul equation in Golarion is VERY skewed toward the Fiends.Seeing as how I don't worship Devils? Yep.And you protect your own with Guillotines...Would you prefer the longsword through the gut?
War isn't pretty. Even less so when you are the little dog in the fight going up against a big well trained warhound. MAD is a tactic that only because no one likes it.
If you're that scared of what someone else might do to you I can see why the Final Blades appeal to you so much.
If you're that scared of what someone else might do to you I can see why the Final Blades appeal to you so much.Again, it calls out regularly that you don't have to. All that is needed is that the guy that kills you does and takes a few moments to kill you in a certain way. The who gets your soul equation in Golarion is VERY skewed toward the Fiends.Seeing as how I don't worship Devils? Yep.And you protect your own with Guillotines...Would you prefer the longsword through the gut?
War isn't pretty. Even less so when you are the little dog in the fight going up against a big well trained warhound. MAD is a tactic that only because no one likes it.
lol If I am going to go punch the head priest of a vindictive faith in the nose and not be able to finish the job I think I would have reason the be afraid. lol
These are the same people who view torture as a pleasurable pastime during peace. I doubt they are much nicer to POWs.
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If you're that scared of what someone else might do to you I can see why the Final Blades appeal to you so much.Again, it calls out regularly that you don't have to. All that is needed is that the guy that kills you does and takes a few moments to kill you in a certain way. The who gets your soul equation in Golarion is VERY skewed toward the Fiends.Seeing as how I don't worship Devils? Yep.And you protect your own with Guillotines...Would you prefer the longsword through the gut?
War isn't pretty. Even less so when you are the little dog in the fight going up against a big well trained warhound. MAD is a tactic that only because no one likes it.
lol If I am going to go punch the head priest of a vindictive faith in the nose and not be able to finish the job I think I would have reason the be afraid. lol
These are the same people who view torture as a pleasurable pastime during peace. I doubt they are much nicer to POWs.
*nods*
And yet people do go to war with them, instead of trapping their own souls or committing mass sucicide out of fear.
*nods*
And yet people do go to war with them, instead of trapping their own souls or committing mass sucicide out of fear.
Most only "succeed" by either being far enough away that they lose interest, being small enough that they don't care, or by reaching a stalemate. With most of the stalemates involving divine or near divine assistance.
Chelix doesn't have much of a history of losing wars. Their loses turn into cold wars waiting for someone to blink. They are technically at war with half the world and yet still have stable borders and are a major power.
Edit: Even with a crusade overflowing with divine assistance attacking them and causing more damage than had been done in ages the rest of the major powers are STILL to scared of Chelix winning and coming for revenge for them to strike. That alone says that you want an amazing trump card going into a fight with them.
Normally I find thread derailments a minor annoyance but it really sucks to comeback and get excited about 36 new messages only to find people talking irrelevant drivel.
We aren't playing in "Golarion" technically but I pace restrictions on myself beyond the norm.
1. Is a "Gray Gardener/Warden" an inherently evil or neutral class that doesn't match up with a Paladin?
Or
2. If I was playIng in Golarion, would a lawful good Gray Gardener be out of the realm of possibility? I mean even if he left Galt due to its inability to match his alignment
could he still advance as a "gardener"?
Do note, no alignment restriction is shown in the Gray Gardener description.
Also, I was more utilizing the class for mechanics, as I would be executing evil things as a Paladin of Damerrich
Actually there kinda is.
The character must publicly execute a tried and sentenced individual. Whether the victim is actually guilty or innocent is irrelevant.Are you under the impression that executioner's review the trial transcripts of those sentenced to make sure it passes some sort of plausibility test? Can a Paladin serve as a prison guard if he's not constantly acting as an internal Innocence Project?
Sure, a Paladin would be in trouble if he actually knew someone was innocent. But it's going to be hard to know that without a lot of assumptions regarding investigative resources/truth magic, etc. He says he's innocent before you drop the axe? They all do.
Remember, we're not talking about a normal legally ordained Executioner, but the bat s%+* axe crazy that is Galt. It's basically a reflavoring of the Assassin's requirement of "kill someone for no reason just because you can".
And yes an actual full on Paladin would do their damnest to make sure their actually locking up and executing the guilty.
Given the Parisian Terror circumstances of Galt, it likely fairly obvious when someone is being executed for purely political purpsoes.
Normally I find thread derailments a minor annoyance but it really sucks to comeback and get excited about 36 new messages only to find people talking irrelevant drivel.
We aren't playing in "Golarion" technically but I pace restrictions on myself beyond the norm.
1. Is a "Gray Gardener/Warden" an inherently evil or neutral class that doesn't match up with a Paladin?
Or
2. If I was playIng in Golarion, would a lawful good Gray Gardener be out of the realm of possibility? I mean even if he left Galt due to its inability to match his alignment
could he still advance as a "gardener"?
You should be good. Maybe some redemption stuff, like you used to kill blindly, but now only on those that deserve it. Just make sure your character doesn't enjoy it, and just has to.
Thanks fellas I like your input