your tri-classing as a bolt ace, grenadier, and sohei. (do i even need that last class >.>) hand crossbows are exotic.but bolt ace gets Crossbow Mavenat lvl 1. sohei gets Weapon Training (Ex) at lvl 6. does crossbow mavenat allow me to pick up hand crossbows at lvl one or will i have to wait for lvl 6 weapon training (Ex) does(Ex) mean exotic?
i did not know where to place this thread
If you're playing as a Bolt Ace, you can use Hand Crossbows from level 1. They're proficient with all types of crossbows, exotic or otherwise.
ohh okay thanks Skreeeeeeeeee! just needed clarification.
what stats would you focus on? for those three classes dex int and wis is what i am thinking.
if you're only taking Sohei levels for Weapon Training you could just take Weapon Master and get it at level 3.
How far are you taking each class? Dex is probably going to be your most important considering it can control your hit and damage potential.
11 bolt ace 6 sohie 4 grenadier but the last 2 can be swapped because i am not so sure if sohie is worth it or not ki striking or flurry of blows might be nice with hand crossbows. grenadier is for explosive missile and vestigial arms.
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I saw someone recommend once taking a two level dip in Alchemist to get a vestigial arm for reloading and then dual wielding hand crossbows. Thematically i would go for two arms, use an android and call the character Nordom Whistleklik
Crossbow Maven gives you proficiency with all crossbows, and a free masterwork crossbow of your choice.
What is the specific goal of your build? Maximum number of attacks, or hit hard and keep moving?
For max attacks, vestigial arms (or levels of Juggler) will let you TWF with Hand crossbows. The errata to Sharp shoot means that you won't be hitting touch as often, so I wouldn't try one-handing (let alone dual-wielding) anything heavier.
Vital Strike feat chain or Explosive missile (requires 4+ levels of Alchemist, but not specifically grenadier) will let you deal heavier damage on single hits from a standard action.
Explosive missile also includes an automatic RELOAD as part of the standard action, so it also works for heavier projectile weapons like one-handed firearms (close range, but hit against touch without costing grit), heavy crossbows and longbows(high range, bigger weapon die).
TWF? Whats that stand for? Still new to the forum.
The goal of my build? Well i want to play a shooter that has four arms throws bombs and makes people explode with shots.
Bolt ace because guns are not in the world. Grenadier gives you Precise Bombs for free. I was guna invest in a quiver full of Splitting Bolts.
I am kinda sure that explosive missiles won't work with slitting bolts. But that's okay. Also alchemical weapon when i am out of bombs.
I will have to check out the vital strike feat chain.
can you save a feat for for your next level and then take the feat?
zainale wrote: can you save a feat for for your next level and then take the feat? No.
Quote: TWF? Whats that stand for? Still new to the forum. TWF is Two Weapon Fighting.
zainale wrote: TWF? Whats that stand for? Still new to the forum.
The goal of my build? Well i want to play a shooter that has four arms throws bombs and makes people explode with shots.
Bolt ace because guns are not in the world. Grenadier gives you Precise Bombs for free. I was guna invest in a quiver full of Splitting Bolts.
I am kinda sure that explosive missiles won't work with slitting bolts. But that's okay. Also alchemical weapon when i am out of bombs.
I will have to check out the vital strike feat chain.
Let's break this down.
Advantages of Hand Crossbows
TWF = Two Weapon Fighting. You actually only need one extra vestigial arm to handle reloading however many times per round, even if wielding two of them.
Taking six levels of Ranger, with the Crossbow combat style will get you Crossbow Mastery and another bonus feat (free action reloads for all crossbows!) faster than the 11 levels of Bolt Ace to get Inexplicable Reload. This is your fastest option, plus taking Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Two Weapon Fighting to make the most attacks per round.
Remember, Two Weapon Fighting is a full-attack action, so you can't move and shoot.
Trying to multi-stat for Wisdom (Grit) on top of the Dexterity and Intelligence you'll need will start to hurt after a while, and Sharp Shoot (at 1st level) is really as good as it gets, so decide if levels of Bolt Ace are really worth it. 5th level gets you crossbow training, which will give you Dex to damage and move up your critical modifier, but there's not a lot past that that's really worth it, if you still want room for Alchemist stuff.
Making People Explode With Shots
If you want people to explode with shots, you want as many Alchemist levels as possible to increase your bomb damage, after you've gotten some bonus feats and boosted your Base Attack Bonus a little from a class like Fighter, Ranger, or Gunslinger.
Your fourth level of alchemist is the earliest you'll be able to take the Explosive Missile feat. This is a special standard action, so you won't be getting the multiple shots from free action reloads and/or TWF every round. It does free you up to move around more.
For this, you want your Intelligence as high as or just below your Dexterity, so you get the most bombs per day, and it increases the damage of your bombs. Remember, Explosive Missile takes care of reloading for you, so you don't need Rapid Reload, Crossbow Mastery, or Inexplicable Reload.
Vital strike would require different feat investments (if you're not going for TWF and want to use a bigger crossbow), but it gives you a reliable source of one-shot damage if you are out of bombs. Devastating Strike (the 'brother' of the Vital chain) will help make up for the loss of modifier damage, and Improved Devastating Strike will take advantage of the crit range of a crossbow (get Improved Critical as soon as you can fit it in).
Splitting bolts don't get any of the special effects from the wielder or the crossbow, so they won't do much from a hand crossbow. A heavy crossbow will let them do more damage.
zainale wrote: can you save a feat for for your next level and then take the feat? No, but with the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign you can retrain the feat once you qualify for it.
zainale wrote: your tri-classing as a bolt ace, grenadier, and sohei. (do i even need that last class >.>) hand crossbows are exotic.but bolt ace gets Crossbow Mavenat lvl 1. sohei gets Weapon Training (Ex) at lvl 6. does crossbow mavenat allow me to pick up hand crossbows at lvl one or will i have to wait for lvl 6 weapon training (Ex) does(Ex) mean exotic? It can take a while to learn all of the abbreviations in the books, and even longer to learn the ones commonly used on the message boards. (Ex) stands for Extraordinary. When characters get abilities that are outside of the bounds of normal humans, they are classified into three main categories.
Core Rulebook (CRB) wrote: Extraordinary Abilities (Ex): Extraordinary abilities are unusual abilities that do not rely on magic to function.
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Spell-like abilities function just like spells, but are granted through a special racial ability or by a specific class ability (as opposed to spells, which are gained by spellcasting classes as a character gains levels).
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical attacks, defenses, and qualities. These abilities can be always active or they can require a specific action to utilize. The supernatural ability's description includes information on how it is used and its effects.
The category they fall in tells you some of the general rules that the ability follows. For example (Sp) and (Su) abilities are magical, so they cease functioning in an Anti-magic Field. (Ex) aren't magical so they keep functioning in an AMF.
See what I mean about a lot of abbreviations? :)
Torbyne wrote: I saw someone recommend once taking a two level dip in Alchemist to get a vestigial arm for reloading and then dual wielding hand crossbows. Thematically i would go for two arms, use an android and call the character Nordom Whistleklik Not possible but not necessary if sohei is in the mix.
Sohei can use crossbows in their flurry at level 6 if they take the right weapon group. Since the basic flurry is just pseudo TWF anyway, it is not a loss, and a bit of a gain since you only need to enhance a single weapon for all those attacks.
Although, admittedly, there would be little reason to take hand crossbows specifically in that case. You could flurry with any crossbow, so just using a light one that can be reduced to a free action easily would just be an upgrade.
Also, both of the needed classes, bolt ace and sohei, have their important abilities (dex to damage and ability to flurry) at relatively high levels. You would be level 11 before you could get this fully operational. Whether that is a deal breaker is up to you. Alchemist and TWF can start much earlier, but cost you a lot (since you would have to get both TWF adn archery feats)
lemeres wrote: Torbyne wrote: I saw someone recommend once taking a two level dip in Alchemist to get a vestigial arm for reloading and then dual wielding hand crossbows. Thematically i would go for two arms, use an android and call the character Nordom Whistleklik Not possible but not necessary if sohei is in the mix.
Sohei can use crossbows in their flurry at level 6 if they take the right weapon group. Since the basic flurry is just pseudo TWF anyway, it is not a loss, and a bit of a gain since you only need to enhance a single weapon for all those attacks.
Although, admittedly, there would be little reason to take hand crossbows specifically in that case. You could flurry with any crossbow, so just using a light one that can be reduced to a free action easily would just be an upgrade.
Also, both of the needed classes, bolt ace and sohei, have their important abilities (dex to damage and ability to flurry) at relatively high levels. You would be level 11 before you could get this fully operational. Whether that is a deal breaker is up to you. Alchemist and TWF can start much earlier, but cost you a lot (since you would have to get both TWF adn archery feats) Which part is not possible? Since the arms grant no additional number of attacks beyond what you can get without them it is a valid use of the discovery. You could even dual wield light crossbows without the one handed penalty with four arms.
I meant mixing TWF and flurry. They are seperate things that don't really combine. Ergo, having both would be redundant.
The arms help for TWF, and you do not need two weapons at all for flurry (since you can use one weapon for all attacks), and thus you have little reason to grab the extra arm.
I mean...you can do it, but there is little reason to waste money on a second crossbow, and then take a two level dip into another class so you can load the crossbow you don't need.
These are just different pathes, and you generally shouldn't try to go down both.
Ah, I get you now. Agreed :)
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