I have a bard who i want to be able to hold wands or metamagic rods in his off hand but i made the mistake of enchanting a small sized heavy darkwood shield to +1. I'm wondering if there is a cheaper solution than selling that shield and purchasing and enchanting a new one. Right now i would loss a net of 628.50gp. I've look at a glove of storing(10,000gp) but since i won't be using 2 handed weapons or two weapon fighting, don't think its worth it. I don't believe the "called" enchantment for shields from 3.5 ever got put into PF...at least not in the materials i have access to(ultimate equipment). Can i pay to have a druid cast the spell "wood shape"( on it to make it a buckler??? Any other ideas?
Polymorph Any Object is the normal solution.
I think just eating the 600 gp is the way to go. Alternatively, see if you can visit a smith and he can just cut it down to size.
==Aelryinth
Aelryinth wrote: Polymorph Any Object is the normal solution.
I think just eating the 600 gp is the way to go. Alternatively, see if you can visit a smith and he can just cut it down to size.
==Aelryinth
that spell would not work ....since the object cannot be magical...too expensize anyway.
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
would this work?
cast it on the shield?
Bandw2 wrote: would this work?
cast it on the shield?
No...it is not in the main online Pazio PRD...which means i do not have legal access to it...but thanks anyway. Remember this is for PFS play.
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Your character wealth will increase exponentially as you level up. Sell the shield, eat the loss, and in a few levels you won't even feel the gap. :)
Jiggy wrote: Your character wealth will increase exponentially as you level up. Sell the shield, eat the loss, and in a few levels you won't even feel the gap. :) Oh come on Jiggy..you most know a loophole. Sides my halfing can only eat so much...his trail rations only weigh 1/4 lb!!
Meager Rolmug wrote: Bandw2 wrote: would this work? No...it is not in the main online Pazio PRD...which means i do not have legal access to it...but thanks anyway. Remember this is for PFS play. It wouldn't matter if it was on the PRD anyways. You have to actually own any sources you're using.
But Inner Sea Magic is a good addition to anyone's collection anyways.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
I was thinking that maybe this would be of any use, but it's only for carrying and not holding.
MONKEY BELT...I'll have to think about this one
Price 9,400 gp; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Weight 1 lb.
This furry brown belt resembles the tail of a monkey. The belt grants the wearer a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity. Treat this as a temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the belt is worn. The wearer does not lose his Dexterity bonus to AC while climbing, and does not take a –5 penalty on Climb checks when climbing at half his speed. As a swift action the wearer can command the belt to animate, transforming it into a prehensile tail under the wearer's control. The tail does not grant the wearer any additional attacks or actions per round, nor can it wield weapons, but it can make unarmed attacks and hold or manipulate objects about as well as the wearer's normal limbs (though any activity requiring fingers is beyond the tail's capabilities). The belt can function as a tail for 5 minutes per day. These minutes do not need to be consecutive.
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I was thinking of maybe adding animate to the shield.
This means you have to burn a move action to activate it, but then you have both hands free for a short time.
Meager Rolmug wrote: MONKEY BELT...I'll have to think about this one How is spending 9400g better than "spending" 600g to swap out your current shield for a different one?
How does WBL work in PFS? Shouldn't your wealth "catch up" after you dump the shield?
boring7 wrote: How does WBL work in PFS? Shouldn't your wealth "catch up" after you dump the shield? Not as such. You are able to earn a finite amount of gold from each chronicle, and it does not replace gold spent on consumables or lost from selling items off.
It does, however, already include slop for consumables. If you earn max in-tier rewards for each chronicle and never spend money on consumables or spellcasting, you'll end up ahead of WBL.
Meager Rolmug wrote: I have a bard who i want to be able to hold wands or metamagic rods in his off hand but i made the mistake of enchanting a small sized heavy darkwood shield to +1. I'm wondering if there is a cheaper solution than selling that shield and purchasing and enchanting a new one. Right now i would loss a net of 628.50gp. I've look at a glove of storing(10,000gp) but since i won't be using 2 handed weapons or two weapon fighting, don't think its worth it. I don't believe the "called" enchantment for shields from 3.5 ever got put into PF...at least not in the materials i have access to(ultimate equipment). Can i pay to have a druid cast the spell "wood shape"( on it to make it a buckler??? Any other ideas? Heavy darkwood shield is 1000gp for the +1, 150gp for mastercrafter, 50gp for darkwood (base weight 10lb halfed for small size, 10 gp per pound) and 7gp for the base heavy wooden shield. Should be 1207gp in cost. Sells for half, or 603.5 gp.
Replacing with small buckler +1 is possible, but you can't use darkwood, as bucklers are described as being made of metal only. Not sure it matters, as a +1 buckler would already have all the benefits that darkwood could offer your heavy wooden shield (same weight, master crafting reduces check penalty to the same number).
A +1 small Buckler is 1000gp for the +1, 150gp master crafting, and 5gp for the base buckler. Should be 1155gp for the weapon. Subtracting the cost of sold +1 small heavy darkwood shield and you should have a net loss of 551.5gp
You do lose a point of AC, as the base buckler has less AC than the base heavy shield.
This doesn't solve anything, but I figured it would help.
If that's your off hand, what's in your primary hand?
Could you just add shield spikes to the shield and call that your primary hand/weapon? You could then hold wands/rods in your other hand.
You'd want Improved Shield Bash to make the most of it, but there's a benefit to carrying around a shield for those rounds when you are casting or doing something else.
Are weapon cords still a thing? You could put a cord on your shield and just free action drop it when you need your hand for a rod or wand. I think it takes a move action or a standard action to get it back but you don't risk losing it in a river or over a cliff.
Devo wrote: If that's your off hand, what's in your primary hand?
Could you just add shield spikes to the shield and call that your primary hand/weapon? You could then hold wands/rods in your other hand.
You'd want Improved Shield Bash to make the most of it, but there's a benefit to carrying around a shield for those rounds when you are casting or doing something else.
As mentioned earlier i plan on using metamagic rods(and already purchased one of bouncing), they have to be held and all but a few spells it work on have a somatic component...so 2 hands. The problem is my feats have to do with being up front(caustious fighter and blundering defense)...i need to max my AC...i even learned the spell "lock gaze". but selling the shield wouldn't be the end of the world.
I believe that the rod modifies the gestures, so an additional hand is not needed. However, I cannot find that text.
/cevah
Put a spike on the shield, give it the Bashing Enchantment, take Improved Shield Bash, and make the Shield your primary weapon.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Put a spike on the shield, give it the Bashing Enchantment, take Improved Shield Bash, and make the Shield your primary weapon. That's a lot more expensive to the character than just admitting the mistake and selling the shield.
600GP seems like a lot at this level, but it really isn't much. Sell it and buy whatever it is that you think you need.
Or save the shield and upgrade it to Animated when you get the cash. If you go that route, I'd suggest looking at the Release Shield Equipment Trick Feat. a swift action to drop your animated shield is a pretty slick way to free your hands and bump your AC. But that's 8K GP and a feat.
Argus The Slayer wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Put a spike on the shield, give it the Bashing Enchantment, take Improved Shield Bash, and make the Shield your primary weapon. That's a lot more expensive to the character than just admitting the mistake and selling the shield.
600GP seems like a lot at this level, but it really isn't much. Sell it and buy whatever it is that you think you need.
Or save the shield and upgrade it to Animated when you get the cash. If you go that route, I'd suggest looking at the Release Shield Equipment Trick Feat. a swift action to drop your animated shield is a pretty slick way to free your hands and bump your AC. But that's 8K GP and a feat. Sort of. I'm just pointing out that maybe the OP should make the shield the primary weapon.
Making the shield the primary weapon is freeish for starters, depending on what the OP has for a primary weapon. He should take Improved Shield Bash.
Upgrading it from a shield to a spiked shield is very cheap. It will do 1d4 damage for halfling sized large, spiked shield
Enchanting it as a +1 Weapon costs the same as enchanting any other +1 Weapon: 2000gp.
Putting a 2nd +1 equivalent enchantment on the shield costs 3000gp. Bashing bumps up the damage by 2 size catagories, from 1d4 to 1d8. A halfling-sized longsword does 1d6. If he were medium sized the damage would bump up from 1d6 to 2d6. The Bashing Enchantment can turn a large, spiked shield into a formidable weapon. You could take Shield Slam, Greater Bull Rush and Paired Opportunist and have an Attack of Opportunity build. Bull Rushing has a size limit, though, and maybe a halfling shouldn't do that.
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It's simple! Dip two levels in Alchemist to get the discovery for an extra arm. Bam, now you can hold ALL the things. It's hardly a sensible solution, but you will totally save yourself from that 600ish gold loss.
I'm curious if any of the rods you use could be enchanted as weapons? I've seen rods and staffs that function as maces, sometimes even +1 or +2 maces. With quickdraw, this may be a suitable way to adjust your character. Hardly ideal if you aren't already using one of those mace/rods, but it may save some head scratching if you happen to use them.
Knowing the rest of your character functions might also help us loophole or sidestep problems. CS link and a good statement of what exactly you want to be able to do in an ideal round?
keep in mind the PC is a 10 strength halfling...he does not(and will not) do much of anything melee wise. The problem is...
1) no free 2nd hand due to heavy shield
2) want to be a better caster by using metamagic rods which require being held
3) Using spells with somatic components which happen to be almost all of them on the bard's list(though i did pick up blindness/deafness).
4) i need to keep the PC's AC close to max due to the rest of his build involving him being up front as i can provide only partial soft cover being small sized(up to GM's discretion) and the feat Cautious Fighter ands blundering defense.
Taking dips in other classes would only weaken my spell casting so i won't do that. Its a bit of a strange build...but has been working pretty good. The detective bard archtype gets bonuses to thieve type stuff...
perception, can disable magical traps, reflex saves VS traps, etc. So Going first through a trap laden dungeon makes sense(he also good at stealth) and can use the spell "alter self" to get darkvision and a bonus to dex along with heroism to help out with the above skills and saves. Then once battle starts i either cast or get in an enemies way fighting defensively or taking total defense(which also helps CMD. Yeah it gets kind of boring doing virtually no damage, but the folks i play with often max out their offensive capabilities...leaving them vulnerable to being knocked out of the fight quickly. So i prevent that sometimes...THATS my main offense.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Does your character possess any Metamagic Rods yet? If not I would suggest waiting until you do then just and replace the current shield accepting the wealth loss. Wands only require one hand for use. From what I can tell you definitely need two hands to use a Metamagic Rod with a spell requiring a somatic component.
Adding the Animated special property would be an expensive alternative that maintains the higher shield bonus to AC but runs into the problem there is no real way to draw and return rods or wands as free actions in Pathfinder off the top of my head. However, your strategy could be: Carry the shield and either a rod or wand. 1st Round, loose shield then cast. 2nd round move cast. 3rd round move cast. 4th round move cast grab shield (free action). 5th round loose shield cast. And so on.
Also, no need to drop to a buckler. A light shield allows you to hold and use items in your shield hand, just not wield weapons. Rods require you to hold them in hand to use them, not to wield them as a weapon.
SenahBirdR wrote: Does your character possess any Metamagic Rods yet? If not I would suggest waiting until you do then just and replace the current shield accepting the wealth loss. Wands only require one hand for use. From what I can tell you definitely need two hands to use a Metamagic Rod with a spell requiring a somatic component.
yeah, I did already buy a lesser wand of bouncing...it bounces from both a made save or spell resistance...which gives me 2 bites at the apple...so to speak. Like i mentioned earlier i can use it when casting blindness(no somatic component), but not Cacophonous Call. CC has a will save...so it tends to work better on most critters. I will spend gold on other needed items for now and hold off on my final decision on the shield...try it as is and see how much of a hassle it really is. I am leaning toward keeping it and getting a MONKEY BELT, GREATER(18,000gp). i was planning on a belt to improve at least con and dex anyway...the tail part would amount to 9000gp minus whatever i value the plus five to climb at(not much...maybe a 1000??).
ADVANTAGES:
1)+1 to AC...eventually 8000gp to get another point of AC is gonna be about right.
2)getting things out of the haversack with the tail should be fine with most GM's...while using a shield hand, even with a buckler(when the other hand is full and you want to keep it that way) might not be viewed as such. Admittedly this specific situation is not going to come up much...maybe retrieving a scroll while threatening to provide flank. there must be other examples...maybe someone can think of them.
DISADVANTAGES:
1)at level 5(when i started this thread) it will be a while before i save up the Gold for it...although i could start with the regular MONKEY BELT right? that only costs 9,400 gp.
2)I will miss out on the cost advantage of getting a belt of perfection. The only reason i need strength however, is for encumbrance reasons...as unfortunatly, wondrous items are at lighter for small size PC's. This could become a real problem at levels 8 on up. I could avoid buying boots, gloves and such...buying items that are slotless and carrying in the handy halversack...but that would kind of suck. I do know the spell alter self...but getting medium size would be counter productive in most situations.
I have to say if you are 5th level, that is NOT an expensive shield anymore: sell it, eat the gold, and go buy something you can use.
A molehill may look like a mountain to a halfling, but it is still a molehill.
;)
Argus The Slayer wrote: I have to say if you are 5th level, that is NOT an expensive shield anymore: sell it, eat the gold, and go buy something you can use.
A molehill may look like a mountain to a halfling, but it is still a molehill.
;)
true enough...but that 1 point of AC, there is no way that doesn't hurt a bit...amazing how often enemies seem to miss by one. Being always as close to the enemy as possible...the PC gets attacked ALOT.
Why is this PC always as close to the enemy as possible? Do you mean this Bard willingly moves within Full Attack range of monsters? If so, why?
If you're really desperate read the princes wolves? for the boon and sell it back at 75% instead of 100.
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Magda Luckbender wrote: Why is this PC always as close to the enemy as possible? Do you mean this Bard willingly moves within Full Attack range of monsters? If so, why? Guess you'd have to read more than just the last comment to know the answer. But to summarize
1)Most times on the PFS tables I play on there aren't any true meatshields...everyone seems to max out their offense leaving them with lousy AC and/or saves and/or hitpoints. Almost all the martials use 2 handed weapons, all the casters have a very average con score, etc.
2)Bards do NOT have to be squishy!! This is a common misconception. Only two maybe 3 times has another PC in the party had a higher AC + hitpoints. As bards have 2 good saves and is a Halfling he usually has the best saves also. I can cast vanish while threatened(auto-succeed on concentration check) and run away if i have to. I can cast mirror image too...but haven't even needed it yet. My feats are toughness, additional traits(including the one that boosts Concentration), combat casting.
3)I will be taking Halfling only feats that boost my fighting defensively and total defense actions by 2 and then later allow me to add to adjacent allies AC 1/2 my total dodge bonus from those actions from monsters that threaten both of us. I will also be casting spells that can force monsters to attack me instead of ny allies. These spells are lower spell level than other save or suck spells. This has 2 advantages for my PC...he can auto succeed on the concentration check and save his higher level spells for party buffs and such.
So basically the WHOLE build is about being nigh invulnerable and wasting an enemy's actions attacking the weak Halfing up front. I may cause zero damage in a battle but by keeping other PC's up and buffing them may actually be responsible for causing the most damage...just not personally.
Take a look into Gloves of Storing and Handy Haversack, IMO.
I can't remember the item name but there is something that lets you store a rod or wand in a weapon's hilt. That could also be useful.
Devo wrote: If that's your off hand, what's in your primary hand?
Could you just add shield spikes to the shield and call that your primary hand/weapon? You could then hold wands/rods in your other hand.
You'd want Improved Shield Bash to make the most of it, but there's a benefit to carrying around a shield for those rounds when you are casting or doing something else.
Shield bash is a Martial proficiency, right? And Bards don't get that?
Of course taking a level in Fighter and using the free feat for Improved Shield Bash is a solution...
There is a trait making shield bash simple ;-)
Helikon wrote: There is a trait making shield bash simple ;-) ...and count as a Light Weapon!
Excellent answer, and a sound tactic. Thanks for explaining.
Forgive my ignorance, but does PFS play not follow standard character wealth by level guidelines?
As in, if you sell the shield at a loss of 600g, then you are 600g behind the character wealth curve and should be brought back up to standard with increased loot over time.
Unless PFS is just really horrible, you shouldn't have to eat a 600g loss for very long, it should only be a temporary setback.
Edymnion wrote: As in, if you sell the shield at a loss of 600g, then you are 600g behind the character wealth curve and should be brought back up to standard with increased loot over time.
It does not. Each adventure has a set gold amount that you can earn. You can earn less than that total, but never more. However, there is some evidence that the totals are slightly higher than average WBL, so losing gold doesn't cripple you, merely sets you back slightly compared to a character that never loses gold.
Plus there is day job rules. I would definitely say that it is above standard WBL.
Someone did a calculation of how much cheesing the day job earns you. It only amounts to a few thousand, which is big in the early levels, but less important in the high levels.
Day Jobs will help cover the alchemical item / level 1 potion replacement budget. As for giving real wealth increases, it's not that much.
It only goes up to a DC of 40 which gives 150gp. So yeah. Even if you are cheesing it up it doesn't amount to a lot. Still helps bring you above WBL, though.
Also, if you have a link to the cheesing thread, I would enjoy seeing it. It is hard to imagine how much you could invest in the skill if your investment isn't going to pay for itself over 12 levels. Still, I'm sure it would be an interesting read.
Bard spells are often Verbal only and thus not require any hands for casting.
A bard can get away with tying a hand up with a shield and wielding the rod in the other hand. It doubles as a beating-stick when you're not casting, to boot!
Lune wrote: It only goes up to a DC of 40 which gives 150gp. So yeah. Even if you are cheesing it up it doesn't amount to a lot. Still helps bring you above WBL, though.
Also, if you have a link to the cheesing thread, I would enjoy seeing it. It is hard to imagine how much you could invest in the skill if your investment isn't going to pay for itself over 12 levels. Still, I'm sure it would be an interesting read.
I don't have a link, but I can explain one way of "cheesing" day jobs. There's a boon that extends it up to DC 50 for 300 gp, and anyone with at least one level of Street Performer Bard doubles the amount if they're using Perform for their dayjob. So a 600 gp dayjob check is possible, although it takes a little while to get it reliable.
Heh. Interesting. I understand Alchemists get a fairly high check as well what with the +1/2 class level to Craft: Alchemy and the ability to use Crafter's Fortune. Still, they can't get to 600gp limits, though.
Actually, Alchemists don't get that bonus to their dayjob, since it applies only to Craft: Alchemy checks to make items, and not to all aspects of the skill.
Hmm... I will have to inform my venture lieutenant of that.
deusvult wrote: Bard spells are often Verbal only and thus not require any hands for casting.
A bard can get away with tying a hand up with a shield and wielding the rod in the other hand. It doubles as a beating-stick when you're not casting, to boot!
No, actually only a VERY few spells that benefit from a metamagic rod to improve save or suck, DO NOT have somatic components...bindness/deafness is pretty much it. ALL the enchantment spells have somatic components.
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