Goblin Squad Member
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Bravery 1 Fighter Morale Freedom Recovery Bonus -1, Mind Blank Recovery Bonus -1
Knockback Freedom Moves target directly away from the attacker AFTER completing the attack
Immobilize Weakness Freedom Prevent target from moving (but not attacking)
Knockdown Torment Freedom Knock the target prone (gives target ranged def. bonus)
Stun/Paralyze Weakness Freedom Prevent target from moving or actingInterrupt Special Mind Blank Target's current attack fails
Freedom should protect you from knockdowns and stuns. However, Bravery does not give you Freedom; it reduces the decay of Freedom that you already have. So it won't help you gain immunity to stuns, but if you are already immune to stuns, Freedom will make that immunity last longer.
- Mind Blank (Misc. Buff) This stacking buff improves resistance to mental control effects. [Stack Size] added to defense total vs. affected Control effects
- Freedom (Misc. Buff) This stacking buff improves resistance to mental control effects. [Stack Size] added to defense total vs. affected Control effects
- Immobilize (Blocker) This crowd control prevents the character from moving (but not from attacking). It is resisted by Freedom.
- Interrupt (Blocker) This effect causes the attack the target is currently animating to immediately fail (if it is still within its interruption window). It is resisted by Mind Blank.
- Knockdown (Blocker) This effect is essentially a Stun that is animated as knocking the target prone, and thus gives the character a defensive bonus against ranged attacks. It is resisted by Freedom.
- Stun/Paralyze (Blocker) This effect prevents the target from moving or using any actions. It is resisted by Freedom.
This is from the Effects listed in one of the early Alpha guides. It's the first tab in Nihimon's Reference Sheets at Pathfinder Online (Public).
Whenever a Blocker effect is applied to you, it also applies stacks of either Freedom or Mind Blank, depending on which one resisted it. Those stacks of Freedom and Mind Blank decay just like stacks of Bleeding decay; Bravery simply slows down the rate.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Given the information above, am I correct to understand that Bravery will help to mitigate the effects of: knockback, knockdown, Immobilize, Stun/Paralyze, and Interrupts caused by mobs such as wolves, bandits, goblins and ogres; thus making this a useful general defensive feat for fighters to equip?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I still don't understand. Bravery reduces the decay rate of Freedom and Mind Blank. What GIVES Freedom and Mind Blank?
What can a dedicated fighter due to create those two conditions on himself?
I'm not aware of any condition which allows you to give Freedom/Mind Blank to yourself ... outside of using tokens of Freedom or Mind Blank. You get Freedom or Mind Blank from having various debuffs put on you. See page 9 of the combat guide for a complete list.
Freedom and Mind Blank just act as extra defense against certain debuffs (but not the damaging part of those attacks). The stacks of Freedom and Mind Blank wear off over time.
Bravery just means that those stacks last longer. Instead of wearing off at a rate of 5 per 6 seconds they wear off at 4 per 6 seconds.
At level 5 Bravery is strictly better than Iron Will so no point in buying Iron Will if you're buying Bravery. Both provide +10 Will defense at level 5, but Bravery also makes those beneficial stacks last longer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My understanding is that every time a character is hit with a stun or mental immobilizer, he also gets some number of Mind Blank. Every time he gets hit with a knockdown or other physical immobilizer, he also gets some number of Freedom. The purpose of this is to make it harder and harder to stun-lock an individual.
The stacks of Mind Blank and Freedom decay, just like other stacks, so eventually our character is less resistant again. The Bravery feat reduces decay, so the fighter stays resistant longer.
I don't know what would apply Mind Blank and Freedom on one's self.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In addition to the auto-application of Freedom/Mind Blank from receiving debuffs (PFO's version of diminishing returns for CC):
Liberation, a cleric Orison, adds 60 stacks of Freedom on the target and a Shrug Off.
Battle Rage, a cleric Orison, adds 40 stacks of Mind Blank and 2 rounds of Riposting to the target.
Bulwark, a fighter utility, adds 30 stacks of Freedom and Mind Blank to self.
Soothe Syrup, an alchemy product, adds 30 stacks of Mind Blank and 2 rounds of acid resistance.
Twitch Tonic, another alchemy product, adds 30 stacks of Freedom, one round each of electrical and physical resistance, and a Shrug Off.
All this info is from the PFO Data spreadsheet that Nihimon shared in another post, it may or may not be up-to-date with what's in game at the moment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Still not clear, let me try a different way:
Is it worth a solo fighter to slot bravery, or is this best used when in a group?
Whether Bravery is better in group combat or solo combat is hard to say right now.
What defensives are you considering? If Iron Will is one of them, replace it with Bravery as it's better (see above).
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Tuoweit,
Thanks; so Bulwark is something a fighter can do! Great, follow up:
Do I use Bulwark before I engage a group of enemies like ogres, wolves, goblin elites, or do I need to get hit first by their special attacks and then I activate Bulwark while saying "shrug it off"? :)
(This is confusing)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Whether Bravery is better in group combat or solo combat is hard to say right now.
What defensives are you considering? If Iron Will is one of them, replace it with Bravery as it's better (see above).
That is a very good question, I am trying to figure that out at Defensive Feats: General ; still working on it...
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Tuoweit,
Thanks; so Bulwark is something a fighter can do! Great, follow up:
Do I use Bulwark before I engage a group of enemies like ogres, wolves, goblin elites, or do I need to get hit first by their special attacks and then I activate Bulwark while saying "shrug it off"? :)
It's not clear to me at the moment whether Freedom and Mind Blank will help you resist such effects in the first place. The answer may lie in Combat Guide, but I don't have a convenient copy on hand at the moment to check.
Shrug Off (and there are other things I didn't list that apply Shrug Off as well) is definitely an after-the-fact remedy, it removes a small number (apparently equal to your recovery, i.e. 10+ appropriate recovery bonus, see link below) of stacks of physical debuffs, like Slows, Bleeding, and Reflex penalties. Some older information suggests that only one kind of stack is affected per use, and that timed debuffs can also be reduced in duration as well, but I can't confirm whether that matches in-game behaviour or not as my testing hasn't been that extensive.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Does Bravery help to defend against the knockdown and stun attacks from wolves, ogres and goblin elites; if not, what does?
Freedom (and high defense scores) helps against knockdown/stun/immobilize. Bravery just means that when you have Freedom (such as when you use a token of Freedom) the stacks of Freedom stay on you longer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I still don't understand. Bravery reduces the decay rate of Freedom and Mind Blank. What GIVES Freedom and Mind Blank?
What can a dedicated fighter due to create those two conditions on himself?
Tokens of Freedom and Tokens of Mind Blank. Just be aware that they'll still decay over time.
[Edit] I see I'm late to the party and you're already getting more detailed answers. My short answer is, they're useful but there is no silver bullet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So if you had Bravery slotted, then used Bulwark (or a token) before hitting the wolves, you likely have better chance of avoiding/mitigating their stun-like effects.
Exactly.
Though if it's done at the start of the fight and you already have some stacks wear off by the time they try to stun you it'll probably mean the difference between losing 5 stacks and losing 4. Which really means a difference of 1 in your total defense against those stuns when comparing the two scenarios. It's technically an improvement, but a very minor one.
When it's only 1 round (6s) of decay of Freedom Bravery makes little difference. But if you'd been cc'ed a lot and had say 60 stacks of Freedom it means the difference between having extra defense against cc for 15 rounds (90s) as opposed to 12 rounds (72s).
It may not sound like much, but as I've said Bravery 5 is better than Iron Will 5 as they both give the same Will defense bonus but Bravery also means that you are slightly better off against chain cc'ing.
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Using the token/buff versus not using it is a bigger difference so it's definitely worth it when you know you're going to have some cc thrown at you. A very rough ballpark estimate of the difference(assuming that you are on par with the attacker in attack vs defense):
~64% chance of stun becoming ~49% with 15 Freedom at T1
~67% chance of stun becoming ~56% with 15 Freedom at T2
~74% chance of stun becoming ~64% with 15 Freedom at T3
The above numbers will vary depending upon matchup, but 15 Freedom can definitely make a difference!
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Goblin Squad Member
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In addition to the auto-application of Freedom/Mind Blank from receiving debuffs (PFO's version of diminishing returns for CC):
Liberation, a cleric Orison, adds 60 stacks of Freedom on the target and a Shrug Off.
Battle Rage, a cleric Orison, adds 40 stacks of Mind Blank and 2 rounds of Riposting to the target.
Bulwark, a fighter utility, adds 30 stacks of Freedom and Mind Blank to self.
Soothe Syrup, an alchemy product, adds 30 stacks of Mind Blank and 2 rounds of acid resistance.
Twitch Tonic, another alchemy product, adds 30 stacks of Freedom, one round each of electrical and physical resistance, and a Shrug Off.
All this info is from the PFO Data spreadsheet that Nihimon shared in another post, it may or may not be up-to-date with what's in game at the moment.
Double checked. Here's the complete list:
Attack/Expendable || Weapon Type/Implement || Effect
Liberation || Focus || Freedom 60 to Target
Apprentice's Twitch Tonic || Potion || Freedom 30 to Self
Journeyman's Twitch Tonic || Potion || Freedom 30 to Self
Master's Twitch Tonic || Potion || Freedom 30 to Self
Lesser Token of Freedom || Token || Freedom 15 to Self
Greater Token of Protection || Token || Freedom 15 to Self
Bulwark || Utility (Boot) || Freedom 30 to Self
Attack/Expendable || Weapon Type/Implement || Effect
Battle Rage || Focus || Mind Blank 40 to Target
Apprentice's Soothe Syrup || Potion || Mind Blank 30 to Self
Journeyman's Soothe Syrup || Potion || Mind Blank 30 to Self
Master's Soothe Syrup || Potion || Mind Blank 30 to Self
Lesser Token of Mind Blanking || Token || Mind Blank 15 to Self
Greater Token of Protection || Token || Mind Blank 15 to Self
Bulwark || Utility (Boot) || Mind Blank 30 to Self
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Goblin Squad Member
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@All,
Thanks for replies, I am compiling info to then summarize to see if I understand better. Slowly but surely it is staring to make sense...
Revised questions:
1-In addition to Bravery (or a token) what else helps to defend against the knockdown and stun attacks from wolves, ogres and goblin elites (shamans and bombers)?
2- How can you tell if you are stunned, knockdown or immobilize? Is it by looking at your PC and seeing the results of the effect, or by some icon that shows up in your HUD?
3-Do I use Bulwark before I engage a group of enemies like ogres, wolves, goblin elites (to get the conditions up for Bravery to work), or do I need to get hit first by their special attacks (thus creating the conditions) and then I activate Bulwark; trusting that Bravery will make this utility last longer? Still not clear.
4-Is it worth a solo fighter to slot Bravery, or is this best used when in a group? Some examples combined with other defense feats:
Fighter*_Solo
1-Bravery
2-Ligthning Reflex
3-Strongback
Fighter*_Group (Offensive)
1-Bravery
2-Ligthning Reflex
3-Fortitude
Fighter*_Group (Defensive)
1-Bravery
2-Ligthning Reflex
3-Toughness
5- Given the above information, does the information above “make sense” or “sounds practical” for a dedicated fighter; or do you need to take a look also at ROLE FEATURES, REACTIVE FEATURES, ARMOR & WEAPON feat subsystems to really answer this?
*= In addition to raising Will Power Bonus**, Fortitude Bonus, Reflex Bonus and Recovery Bonus to highest possible level.
**= Will Power Bonus requires Divine Achievement Points, so it might be a struggle for a dedicated fighter to reach the requirements; save grinding thousands of skeletons…
6- There is a utility call Resiliency, what does it do and does it combine with Bulwark to make a good match for a dedicated fighters two utility slots?
Thanks! :)