I have a Paladin in PFS who uses a Nodachi. He is approaching 3rd level and the nodochi has just gotten a +1 enhancement. The next thing I was planning to do was make it a frost weapon.
I just looked over the attributes he could add when he makes it his bonded weapon at 5th level. One of the few offensive +1 enchantments he can add is flaming.
Can the nodochi have both frost and flaming active at the same time?
Also is frost considered an intermediate step toward icy burst?
Morag
Thanks for the quick response. Its good news that icy hot blades work. As this is for PFS I guess there is no upgrade from frost to icy burst. It would not do to have both frost & icy burst as at least part of icy burst wouldn't stack. So if I get to a point when I want to upgrade again I'll have to pick another feature.
Also, it appears to me that to add magic abilities to your weapon all you need is a +1 enchantment. I'd always thought you needed an bonus at least equal to the level of the abilities added.
Am I correct in this?
Morag
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Here is a nice artwork to go with the sword, Sword of Fire and Ice.
I don't think there is a limit on the +1 to weapon property ratio.
Edit: Only limitation seems to be,
"A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once."
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... and a total of weapon properties equaling +5. ..Quote? I'm not remembering such rule.
Oops my bad! I was looking at the random loot tables and noticed that they don't give out any weapon with more weapon special abilities then enchantment bonuses and the special abilities usually don't go pass a +5.
Will edit my earlier post.
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To change the magical bonus to an ability YOU, as a spellcaster with craft magic arms and armor, need to have at least the CL listed for the property. Frost is 8th, Icy Burst is 10th.
As this is a PFS character, here is my suggestion. keep going with your +1 weapon, and upgrade it to +2 when you have the fame/funds (you will need 6k gold and 22 fame). Then, keep going with that weapon till you have 10k more gold and 36 fame. You can upgrade the weapon to a +3, then imediantly turn around and have the property added, for "free." As the wizard is powering it up, you basically are asking him to alter the magic as well.
Wait.. WHAT? Where and when was it ever stated that you could change enchantment bonus to weapon special abilities???
And WHERE does it states you can add weapon special abilities for free?
Much less in PFS?
... and a total of weapon properties equaling +5. ..Quote? I'm not remembering such rule.
In the CR page 467; "Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5." Page 468; "A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus )enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalent) higher than +10".
I've always interpreted that as +5 max for each but now that I read it again...Secane, thanks for the cool picture.
Morag
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... and a total of weapon properties equaling +5. ..Quote? I'm not remembering such rule.Oops my bad! I was looking at the random loot tables and noticed that they don't give out any weapon with more weapon special abilities then enchantment bonuses and the special abilities usually don't go pass a +5.
Will edit my earlier post.
You CAN have a weapon bonus of +6 or higher. These items are "epic" in terms of power. Remember the adamantine golem, yeah that is how you beat his DR...
They also have the table in the book for calculating the value of a +2 Keen Shocking Burst Thundering light hammer. (It's properties and enhancement bonus make it worth the same as a +6 weapon, without the epic notation for vs DR)
A weapon's enchantment bonus cannot go pass a +5.
A weapon with at least a +1 enchantment bonus can add special abilities for a total of +10, including class features. This means you can make a +1 Holy Flaming Shocking Bane Vicious weapon.
If a weapon's combined enchantment and special abilities is worth a +6 or above, then it can penetrate DR/Epic.
Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5.
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.
Table: Weapon Pricing by Bonus:
2 A weapon can't have an enhancement bonus higher than +5. Use these lines to determine price when special ability are added in.
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Yes and No.
YOU, as a spell caster with craft magic arms and armor need a CL of 3 (really 5 due to the limit of the feat) to make a +1 weapon or armor, 6 to make a +2, 9 to make a +3 etc.
To change the magical bonus to an ability YOU, as a spellcaster with craft magic arms and armor, need to have at least the CL listed for the property. Frost is 8th, Icy Burst is 10th.
As this is a PFS character, here is my suggestion. keep going with your +1 weapon, and upgrade it to +2 when you have the fame/funds (you will need 6k gold and 22 fame). Then, keep going with that weapon till you have 10k more gold and 36 fame. You can upgrade the weapon to a +3, then imediantly turn around and have the property added, for "free." As the wizard is powering it up, you basically are asking him to alter the magic as well.
Pretty much this entire post is wrong. An item crafter never needs the minimum caster level(except for golems). For weapons and armor enhancement bonuses it is a prereq that can be ignored by adding 5 to the creation DC. For weapon special abilities, like other items, it only sets the creation DC(5+caster level) and is in no way a minimum.
I don't even know what the last paragraph is referring to. There is no RAW way to rearrange weapon bonuses - once it's there it's there.
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If a weapon's combined enchantment and special abilities is worth a +6 or above, then it can penetrate DR/Epic.
This is incorrect.
In order to bypass DR/Epic a weapon needs to have a +6 enhancement bonus which can only be given by GM approval. A modified +6 bonus (due to special abilities) on a weapon DOES NOT bypass Epic DR. The only other way by RAW is with a paladin's smite evil.
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If a weapon's combined enchantment and special abilities is worth a +6 or above, then it can penetrate DR/Epic.This is incorrect.
In order to bypass DR/Epic a weapon needs to have a +6 enhancement bonus which can only be given by GM approval. A modified +6 bonus (due to special abilities) on a weapon DOES NOT bypass Epic DR. The only other way by RAW is with a paladin's smite evil.
Well that actually depends on whether you're using Mythic or not - the CRB rules on DR/Epic are as you say, but the Mythic rules are as Secane says - and yes, that means that under the Mythic version you could have a weapon that penetrates DR/magic and DR/epic but not DR/silver.
Under the mythic rules a +3 bane weapon penetrates Epic DR if attacking the right creature type.
wait a minute......I thought there was a rule somewhere that a weapon could NOT do multiple element damage? are we saying that if I fire a flaming arrow from my corrosive bow the target takes 1d6 acid and 1d6 fire damage?
and if so, can anyone quote the rule b/c I certainly cant find it
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If a weapon's combined enchantment and special abilities is worth a +6 or above, then it can penetrate DR/Epic.This is incorrect.
In order to bypass DR/Epic a weapon needs to have a +6 enhancement bonus which can only be given by GM approval. A modified +6 bonus (due to special abilities) on a weapon DOES NOT bypass Epic DR. The only other way by RAW is with a paladin's smite evil.
Well that actually depends on whether you're using Mythic or not - the CRB rules on DR/Epic are as you say, but the Mythic rules are as Secane says - and yes, that means that under the Mythic version you could have a weapon that penetrates DR/magic and DR/epic but not DR/silver.
Under the mythic rules a +3 bane weapon penetrates Epic DR if attacking the right creature type.
Interesting. I just saw the difference in the two definitions. Since Mythic Adventures was released after the CRB I would assume it takes precedence but that's still weird. I'm guessing whoever wrote the mythic version didn't know the original definition or they wanted to change it and forgot to make an errata to the CRB.
While it sounds cool, by the time you get it up and running most monsters will have resistances to two or more of the elemental damages, so it likely wont be that effective.Yup I've alwyas had a goal to have a +5 weapon, that does flame, frost, lightening, acid, and thundering.
Well actually I've always wanted one that had the burst versions but it's hard to justfiy the +#s
This relies completely on the GM and what foes he chooses to use, so that's not really an argument. Plus, he can always just choose to drop the resistance if he wants.
[...]getting a burst property, or any other property that consumes more then a +1 of the enhancement bonus. You can change a +3 longsword into a +1 Icy Burst longsword per the rules for modifying and improving gear. This is a 1 way conversion, you can not later decide you preferred the +3 longsword and convert it back. Nor can you later change the Icy Burst to Shocking burst.
Can you provide a citation for this claim? I'm relatively new to Pathfinder, but have never seen anything like this.
Flaming IS an intermediate step towards Flaming Burst; the same goes for the other elemental properties. I don't recall where, but it's mentioned in the rules. I think it was used as an example in a section that specifically talked about upgrading magical items.
May have been in the Core Rulebook, Ultimate Equipment, or Ultimate Campaign.
Once I get to my books, I will post the source when I find it.
Dafydd, that's not what the equation is. It doesn't say you can trade enhancements for enchantments. It says when adding any new ability, you subtract the cost of the original magic item from the new cost. Using the example from the CRB:
A +2 vorpal longsword costs 98,015 gp, as it's total enhancement bonus is +7. The cost of a +1 longsword is 2015 gp, as it's a +1. To upgrade from +1 to +7, you subtract the original(+1 enhancement and weapon price) from the new item(+7 enhancement and weapon price). So the price to upgrade, as shown here, would be 96,000 gp.
Perusing over the book, I found no mention of what you said. Just like class features, once your choice is made, you cannot change it later. Add to it, yes, but not change past decisions.
+3 weapons count as both silver and cold iron for piercing damage reduction.
+4 weapons count as adamantine for piercing damage reduction (and nothing else).
+5 weapons count as alignment based for piercing damage reduction. These bonuses are cumulative.
My evidence: Overcoming Damage Reduction
Where are you getting the piercing only restriction?
Sure it can have both. Never heard of "Ice so cold it burns"
+3 weapons count as both silver and cold iron for piercing damage reduction.
+4 weapons count as adamantine for piercing damage reduction (and nothing else).
+5 weapons count as alignment based for piercing damage reduction. These bonuses are cumulative.
My evidence: Overcoming Damage ReductionWhere are you getting the piercing only restriction?
I think that was intended to mean 'penetrating damage reduction' rather than referring to Piercing weapons.
Also, note that here, +3 weapons means an actual +3 enhancement bonus, unlike the '+6 equivalent weapon penetrating DR/epic' rule. So a +1 flaming frosty holy shocking burst weapon can penetrate DR/epic but not DR/cold iron (unless the weapon is made of cold iron).
Flaming IS an intermediate step towards Flaming Burst; the same goes for the other elemental properties. I don't recall where, but it's mentioned in the rules. I think it was used as an example in a section that specifically talked about upgrading magical items.
May have been in the Core Rulebook, Ultimate Equipment, or Ultimate Campaign.
Once I get to my books, I will post the source when I find it.
It's not explicitly stated, but it is very strongly implied by the text of flaming burst:
Flaming Burst: A flaming burst weapon functions as a flaming weapon that also explodes with flame upon striking a successful critical hit. The fire does not harm the wielder. In addition to the extra fire damage from the flaming ability (see above), a flaming burst weapon deals an extra 1d10 points of fire damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon's critical multiplier is ×3, add an extra 2d10 points of fire damage instead, and if the multiplier is ×4, add an extra 3d10 points of fire damage.
So, a tiny bit of reading between the lines says that flaming burst is a flaming weapon (+1 enhancement bonus modifier) with another effect (the burst), which must account for the other +1 enhancement bonus modifier.
Strictly speaking, it's possible to have a flaming, flaming burst weapon, but only the most churlish GM would require that adding flaming burst to a flaming weapon has to cost the full +2.
Flaming can be upgraded to flaming burst. It's written out as an example somewhere.
You can add +'s or special abilities on top of existing ones by paying the difference in price, but not change +'s as some have been suggesting.
Have an icy-fire weapon is fine, unless your GM objects. Thematically it's fun, and definitely not overpowered.
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I think you have the enhancement pricing equivalents a little mixed up. A +1 flaming burst weapon has the same cost as a +3 weapon, and a +1 weapon can be upgraded to either for the same price, but you don't "turn" the +3 into a +1 flaming burst. Flaming burst just acts as an additional +2 on the weapon for pricing purposes.
The CL to give an enhancement bonus is only for enhancement bonuses. A +4 weapon has a CL prereq of 12(which can be ignored for +5 to the crafting DC). A +1 holy keen weapon (+4 equivalent) has the same price as the +4 weapon, but the caster level is whichever of holy or keen is higher and the only CL prereq is for the +1 which is a 3.