Goblin Squad Member
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At present, you can press F1-F6 to target party members. It's not much, but I think it'll do for now.
Targeting 'friendlies' is potentially more complicated than it appears at first blush - after all, what is the mechanical difference between someone who means you no harm, and someone who merely hasn't attacked you yet? There may eventually be systems to support that delineation, but they are a ways off.
I agree that targeting options require some expansion, but I don't think it is part of MVP. I can wait.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Kadere, the difficulty is that targetting can switch, unexpectedly and suddenly, without notice nor recourse. I ended up attacking three players, killing none--but still plummeting my Reputation from 5500 to less than -7500--through no other action than clicking on my toolbar.
Clicking the toolbar can, under circumstances I don't yet understand, "click through" to the world behind, changing your target and attacking immediately upon that change. I've not been able to incorporate 1-2-3-4-5-6 into my control-scheme instead, so I'm hoping the tool bar somehow becomes "more opaque".
Ryan once said that any action we took that would negatively impact our Reputations would be accompanied by a warning, but that's not yet part of the Alpha.
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Goblin Squad Member
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well the way I envision it you would have another targeting key for cycling through friendly targets who would light up green or something. Friendly's could start off as just group members. offensive abilities would hit offensive targets defensive abilities hit friendly targets. so currently it would only target blue status targets(blue on the minimap).
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Goblin Squad Member
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There may be an Ideascale idea posted for this as well, but I agree.
I'd like to see three keys for tab-targeting:
1. Target nearest Hostile;
2. Target next Hostile;
3. Target next Object (including Non-Hostiles and Resource Nodes).
I am very sympathetic to those who would like to also see:
4. Target nearest non-Hostile;
5. Target next non-Hostile.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Kadere, the difficulty is that targetting can switch, unexpectedly and suddenly, without notice nor recourse.
Yeah, I have heard quite a bit about this. But I'm inclined to treat it as a separate issue - the fact that you can sometimes click through your HUD is an outright bug, and the other issues also need to be fixed.
I tend to main healer in MMOs, and between function keys and clicking the party list, I've never had any troubles with targetting. If those two (or even one of them) things can be made to work reliably, then I fully believe that is minimum viable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is on the way.
We are planning on making the following changes:
Increase tab and click targeting range to 80 meters. You should be able to target anything you can see.
Tab targeting will include hostile player characters.
The system will autotarget anything that attacks you if you have no current target.
Shift+Tab will let you tab through player characters but not NPCs, monsters or resource nodes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've not tested it, but I've been repeatedly told we don't hurt our own Reputations by hitting ourselves; Aggressor flag, yes, but no Rep hit. If you've just found differently, please bug it...a lot.
Bane is, remember, an AOE, centred on yourself; I'd certainly hope that the caster's not included in the target-list, or no one will ever use the orison. You may've hit multiple others, though, and, in the current system, that's the fastest way to Rep-tank-ville.
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I've not tested it, but I've been repeatedly told we don't hurt our own Reputations by hitting ourselves; Aggressor flag, yes, but no Rep hit. If you've just found differently, please bug it...a lot.
A couple days ago I attacked myself with a weapon and a spell(can't remember which), and I was hoping this was a bug. So we won't hurt our own Reputations but we could accidentally kill ourselves?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've both gotten the Social Achievement--don't remember the name--and advanced it, by killing myself multiple times. One or two of the knowledge Skills are gated by that Achievement, and I wanted to advance them.
We can attack ourselves, and we can heal enemies, as a consequence of the friendly-fire aspects of the code. I'm hoping something can be done about the "whack yourself in the head with a big piece of metal" part, but we'll see where we end up as we go along.
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I've both gotten the Social Achievement--don't remember the name--and advanced it, by killing myself multiple times. One or two of the knowledge Skills are gated by that Achievement, and I wanted to advance them.
Isn't that something people can take advantage of to advance that achivement then? Or will it not be worth it to kill yourself a lot?
We can attack ourselves, and we can heal enemies, as a consequence of the friendly-fire aspects of the code. I'm hoping something can be done about the "whack yourself in the head with a big piece of metal" part, but we'll see where we end up as we go along.
I would also hope something can be down about casting a fireball at your own face.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've both gotten the Social Achievement--don't remember the name--and advanced it, by killing myself multiple times. One or two of the knowledge Skills are gated by that Achievement, and I wanted to advance them.Isn't that something people can take advantage of to advance that achivement then? Or will it not be worth it to kill yourself a lot?
We can attack ourselves, and we can heal enemies, as a consequence of the friendly-fire aspects of the code. I'm hoping something can be done about the "whack yourself in the head with a big piece of metal" part, but we'll see where we end up as we go along.I would also hope something can be down about casting a fireball at your own face.
yup
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thats easy for characters who never need to target themselfs but its just as easy to fix the problem and add a /kill console command. Clerics and Wizards will thank you.
There are a number of other good reasons to be able to target yourself, not least of which is being able to apply targeted buffs or heals.
Even better than a /kill console command would be /unstuck, which has been mentioned a number of times but I'm not sure has ever made it in. Hopefully, /unstuck would get you out of a hole without causing 25% item loss or any durability damage. Also hopefully it would log the coordinates where it was used not only to allow someone could fix the hole, but also to ensure it's not being used without cause.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thats easy for characters who never need to target themselfs but its just as easy to fix the problem and add a /kill console command. Clerics and Wizards will thank you.There are a number of other good reasons to be able to target yourself, not least of which is being able to apply targeted buffs or heals.
Even better than a /kill console command would be /unstuck, which has been mentioned a number of times but I'm not sure has ever made it in. Hopefully, /unstuck would get you out of a hole without causing 25% item loss or any durability damage. Also hopefully it would log the coordinates where it was used not only to allow someone could fix the hole, but also to ensure it's not being used without cause.
This brings me back to the point of a duel targeting system targeting a friendly should never be for a negative effect as long as /kill or /unstuck are in game. So you have a diffrent key for tageting friendlys and a difrent target system call it target2 or targetF. This secondary system is only for tageting friendlies and can be used at the same tme as the other targeting system. So you can have both targets at the same time. If you cast heal it goes to the friendly targeting system. If you cast fireball it goes to the normal targeting system. The secondary targeting system is activated with a seperat targeting key wich like the normal targeting key cycles through targets except they are friendly/party members and maby guards?.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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There may be an Ideascale idea posted for this as well, but I agree.
I'd like to see three keys for tab-targeting:
1. Target nearest Hostile;
2. Target next Hostile;
3. Target next Object (including Non-Hostiles and Resource Nodes).I am very sympathetic to those who would like to also see:
4. Target nearest non-Hostile;
5. Target next non-Hostile.
Also, target previous for each next
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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This brings me back to the point of a duel targeting system targeting a friendly should never be for a negative effect as long as /kill or /unstuck are in game. So you have a diffrent key for tageting friendlys and a difrent target system call it target2 or targetF. This secondary system is only for tageting friendlies and can be used at the same tme as the other targeting system. So you can have both targets at the same time. If you cast heal it goes to the friendly targeting system. If you cast fireball it goes to the normal targeting system. The secondary targeting system is activated with a seperat targeting key wich like the normal targeting key cycles through targets except they are friendly/party members and maby guards?.Thats easy for characters who never need to target themselfs but its just as easy to fix the problem and add a /kill console command. Clerics and Wizards will thank you.There are a number of other good reasons to be able to target yourself, not least of which is being able to apply targeted buffs or heals.
Even better than a /kill console command would be /unstuck, which has been mentioned a number of times but I'm not sure has ever made it in. Hopefully, /unstuck would get you out of a hole without causing 25% item loss or any durability damage. Also hopefully it would log the coordinates where it was used not only to allow someone could fix the hole, but also to ensure it's not being used without cause.
Having a primary target (which is the target of all effects that aren't personal or beneficial) and a secondary target that is the target of all effects that are beneficial, and the ability to set those to the same or different target is the best outcome I can think of at the moment. I don't have a useful answer to how to resolve the question of who should be affected by the AoE buffs and effects that should target enemies in the area (rather than creatures in the area).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't understand why you would want to set both to the same target that defeats the purpose no?
I think I do understand why you want the system to stop you from setting them both to the same target, since it sounds like your primary concern is that it's currently too easy to accidentally use a harmful effect on yourself or a friendly.
I think it would make a lot of sense to have toggle options in the Settings Menu that controlled whether the system would allow you to target a Friendly as your Hostile Target (or a Hostile as your Friendly Target).
I can think of a couple of reasons why I would want to cast a harmful attack on a Friendly:
1. I want to test how much damage I'm doing against certain defensive builds;
2. I want to initiate PvP against a target the system currently thinks is Friendly, even though I know they are in fact an enemy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Don't need a toggle you have two key's say r and f for example. You run into the fight on the heels of your brawling buddies. You tap r and target the first bad guy casting a devastating flame strike. Two goblins go out in a blaze of squeelz. The surviving 3 goblins start trading blows with your two brawlers. The human fighter is holding his own and should easily beat the on goblin he faces. The dwarf on the other hand is really taking a beating from the remaining two. you tap f to target the dwarf and use a heal spell to top him up then tap the r at the same time targeting another goblin. As soon as the healing spell is cast you launch a holy bolt at one of the remaining goblins facing the dwarf.
haha, I love that you lose rep by hitting yourself. You are a danger to yourself and others... stop hitting yourself.
Nah, seriously you probably shouldn't lose rep for hitting your party. Or maybe there could be something like a popup box with a choice for the person being hit. THen, you can forgive yourself every time you bloody your own nose.
also, edit:
"2. I want to initiate PvP against a target the system currently thinks is Friendly, even though I know they are in fact an enemy."
Well it'd be pretty weak to pretend to party with someone then attack them. I would hope this would relate more to party members, initially. I'm not joining your parties...
^ yeah someone I knew got stuck and suicided. I don't think they lost rep either.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Again I have encounterd an issue where a duel targeting system would fix it. Mage armour for instence is only usable on self so one would assume on casting said spell it would be cast on .....self. Not so much though as the defult target is no target. Now if the duel targeting system were in place the default friendly target would be....self. Can anyone see why this is better. Currently an encounter goes like this. I see a group of goblins I hit 0 for mage armour nothing happens I remember oh yeah this game is alpha and i need to target myself. I target myself and hit 0 now i hit the next target tab and fire off hell flume oops i hit myself becaouse the game was lagging apperently when i tried to target the govblin. I hit tab cycling through the goblins all the while being damaged. I start casting but its to late im dead. Now the same scenerio with the dual targeting system I would hit 0 mage armouir would be cast I would then hit tab or whatever to target my NEAREST hostile and bobs you're squash dead goblins happy mage.