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Okay this is probably a simple question, but I'd like to be sure I'm doing this right.
Can someone confirm for me if primary and success conditions are related? TThis comes after I almost had a party fail the primary success condition but pass the secondary condition. Fortunately in the end it didn't matter as they passed both but what to check for when it comes up again.
My searching on the forum leads me to the following assumption:
1. PC's complete (kill, bypass, etc) 3 or more encounters get 1xp. If they achieve 2 or less encounters they get 0xp.
2. Regardless of 1. If the PC's meet the primary success conditions they get 1pp
3. Regardless of 1&2. If the PC's meet the secondary success they get 1pp.
Which gives the following options:
1. PC's beat 3 encounters and fulfil both primary and secondary success conditions = 1xp and 2pp.
2. PC's beat 2 encounters and fulfil both success conditions = 0xp and 2pp
3. PC's beat 3 encounters and meet either (but not both) primary or secondary conditions = 1xp and 1pp
4. PC's beat 2 encounters and meet either (but not both) primary or secondary conditions = 0xp and 1pp
5. PC's beat 3 encounters and none of the success conditions = 1xp and 0pp
6. PC's beat 2 encounters and none of the success conditions = 0xp and 0pp
Is that correct or have I missed something?
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That looks good to me. The one slightly ambiguous area is what counts as an encounter; it's best to err on the generous side, especially with scenarios with little combat in.
Note that I asked about a situation the same as your point 4 above on the PFS Facebook group recently, and it started a mighty debate about rewards, fairness, etc.
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Your 6 options are correct, and just use your best judgement for counting encounters, keeping in mind, that roleplaying encounters are encounters, too.
When in doubt, ask somsone you trust. :)
One more thing to keep in mind is that a PC only gets the gold for the encounters they do as well, so if the run away from the final encounter, they get no gold for it.
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I think you might be confused because you're lumping how you get XP and how you get prestige/fame together. Keep them separate.
Generally whenever you complete a primary mission, you still get 1 XP, even if somehow the scenario hasn't alluded to 3 encounters. It's only worth looking at number of encounters if the mission fails (such as a TPK on the first encounter).
Prestige/fame is awarded specifically based on the mission conditions, which are clearly outlined to the GM at the end of every scenario.
1. They get the first PP if they complete the primary mission.
2. They get the second PP if they complete the secondary mission.
So if they complete the secondary mission but fail the primary mission - entirely possible, sometimes this just means cheering up an NPC (huge generalisation, but you get the idea), while the primary mission could be fumbled in a TPK/fleeing situation/surrender at the end. If they get both, then 1PP + 1PP = 2PP.
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In general, we try to keep primary and secondary success conditions connected in one way or another; however, sometimes there's a secondary success that's too good to pass up because of how intuitive, qualitative, or cool it is. As a result, you'll sometimes get a primary/secondary match-up that's a little weird in that you can fulfill the secondary one without doing the primary.
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Avatar-1, I agree I am getting XP and fame sources mixed up, though your phasing of Primary Mission and Secondary Mission (vice success conditions) might be a good way to think about it to get it clear in my mind.
I'll provide the background and maybe that will make more sense then
Primary Success Condition:
The PCs successfully complete their main mission so long as the manage to identify at least one of the carvings in area B2 and explore the Caves of the Pilgrim throughly, including area B1, B2, B3, either B4 or B5 and B6. Doing so earns each PC 1 Prestige Point.Secondary Success Condition:
Over the course of the adventure, the PCs have multiple opportunities to explore, report and cooperate. If a PC successfully accomplishes three of the following five objectives, that PC impresses the Three Masters and fulfils the secondary success condition: Heed Janira's order to flee into the caves when the minotaur first attacks, identify at least two of the carvings in area B2, explore both area B4 and B5, prevent the minitor from killing Janira, or take good notes during the Confirmation. Taking good notes represents the Pathfinder keeping precise records to ensure the accuracy of her report to the society, but a player need not have written a small novel; the goal is simply to make a sincere effort at recording several discoveries, drawing pictures of what they found, mapping out several of the encounter areas, or creating ssome other documentation of the experience. Fulfilling the secondary success condition earns that PC 1 Prestige point
Okay, so we agree that PCs get 1xp for completing their mission (commonly defined as 3 encounters), and get 1 PP per success condition they complete.
My players failed at decoding the pictures, the players with linguistics and knowledge rolled low single digits and looked at the pictures and decided that the cracks at the bottom of the wall were more important... (Fortunately after re-reading and realising I'd missed that perception could be used, the unintelligent barbarian noticed one of the images). They completed the secondary success condition without any problems.
In accordance with the Primary Success Condition completing the MISSION(see bolding in the success condition) requires decoding one of the images. So they way i read that paragraph, they wouldn't have completed their mission and as a result wouldn't have got the XP.
The other issue with can you get a PP for the secondary success condition if you don't complete the primary success condition has been well explained.
So yeah, ultimately just an unfortunate choice of the word mission.
John thankyou for taking the time to answer the thread. After describing the issue, and what Avatar said, I have a suggestion.
Would it be possible to change the wording on the success page in the future something along the lines of:
Mission Success:
Characters receive 1xp if they <insert requirements here>Prestige:
The characters actions going above and beyond the requirements of the mission and receive 1 PP if they did either of the following or 2 PP if they achieved both of the following:
-Requirement 1
-Requirement 2
Or include something in the upcoming guide (as I couldn't find any guidance on when characters DON'T get XP.) Plenty of guidance on how to do the paperwork, and get 1 PP for each success condition, but no mention of they get 1XP for __________
Alternatively, write this off as very new PFS GM sitting behind the screen for the first time.
Thanks for your guidance all, each day I read these forums and speak to you I learn something new which ultimately means less of these errors.
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XP is always the same, regardless of scenario is part of the reason it's not included. You do NOT have to succeed at either the primary or secondary mission to obtain XP.
Step 3: Award the character XP based on his
advancement track. A PC may receive XP only if he
survives the scenario or is raised from the dead by
the scenario’s conclusion and completed at least
three encounters over the course of the adventure.
A character using the standard advancement track
earns 1 XP; a character on the slow advancement
track earns 1/2 XP. Mark this value in the shaded XP
Gained field and initial the adjacent box (H).
In the example you gave:
2. B1: Simple Exercise
3. B3: Aroden's Vision
4. B4: Undead End
5. B5: Denizens of the Deep
6. B6: Tight Spaces
7. C: Final Exam
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Step 3: Award the character XP based on his
advancement track. A PC may receive XP only if he
survives the scenario or is raised from the dead by
the scenario’s conclusion and completed at least
three encounters over the course of the adventure.
A character using the standard advancement track
earns 1 XP; a character on the slow advancement
track earns 1/2 XP. Mark this value in the shaded XP
Gained field and initial the adjacent box (H).
*sigh* Thankyou Sniggevert. I fear me I failed my linguistics check :P
And now back to your regularly scheduled programming