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Short Version: New deity stuff! Boons! Related mechanics! So much more! Go to the deities area of the site and click on the name of any deity to see what I mean.
Long Version: Ever since I was young, I've always loved mythology. I got big into Greek Mythology in 5th grade, and read as much as I could in the years after. I later branched out into Norse, Egyptian, and more. Age of Mythology has (and still remains) one of my favorite games (and yes, the new version on Steam is excellent).
Why do I tell you all this? Well, it leads into my love of the mythology in Golarion. The various pantheons that make up our shared campaign setting are extreme in number and variety. When Inner Sea Gods was announced last year, it quickly became one of the books I looked most forward to.
After it came out, I knew I had to update the Archives. I hadn't done anything with boons until now, despite them being present for Demon Lords and Empyreal Lords. The details I did have were also fairly small, though I did branch out to show unique summons and spells, it wasn't enough for me.
Over the last week, I've spent most of my time adding in the new Inner Sea Gods material. I also spent a great deal of time re-designing my deities area to showcase more of that mythology I love so much.
The Big Change: When you go to the Deities section in the Archives of Nethys, you can sort the deities by alignment or pantheon. This isn't any different from how it was previously set up, and you'll actually notice there is less information when sorting by alignment. Strange?
Well, just click the name of any deity.
This should now take you to an advanced details page on that specific god, godling, demon, whoever. It will list their title, domains, favored animals/colors/regions as applicable, any boons, the feat that uses those boons, and all related mechanics.
Is there a Trait that uses this god as a requirement? It's here.
Does ISG recommend some magic items for followers of the god? They're here.
Is there a Spell that is generally used by worshippers of the god? Yup, here as well.
Now when I add items into my database, I can tag them with an appropriate religion tag if I feel they're related, and they'll all show up in this area. The goal is to make it into a one stop shop for all your deity needs. If you go check out Pharasma, I want you to see everything that Paizo has put out that'd work well for followers of her.
I hope you all enjoy it, and please, let me know if you have any suggestions or feedback! I don't *think* there are any bugs in this new section, but if you do notice any, definitely let me know about those too.
Keep on gaming,
Blake "Nethys" Davis
Fantastic. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so very much!
Such a time saver for anyone making a divine character! Thank you, Blake!
Since you have deity specific spell choices, clerics and oracles of Kabriri can create Ghuls and Greater Ghuls instead of Mummies with Create Undead, and any Ghoul, Ghast, Ghul and Greater Ghul can be given the Fiendish template for double the material cost (or the sacrifice of a living humanoid).
Mythic Realms, pg. 55
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Since you have deity specific spell choices, clerics and oracles of Kabriri can create Ghuls and Greater Ghuls instead of Mummies with Create Undead, and any Ghoul, Ghast, Ghul and Greater Ghul can be given the Fiendish template for double the material cost (or the sacrifice of a living humanoid).
Mythic Realms, pg. 55
Thanks for pointing this out! Kabriri has been updated with this information. :)
Yay! Helping!
Sweeeeeeeeet! :D
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Excellent work! This will be very handy for me.
...can't help but notice that some minor deities are missing their alternate spell rules, however (such as Naderi, Achaekek, Ghlaunder, etc.) that were on pages 175-181 of ISG.
Other than that, though, awesome job! I love divine characters, so this will definitely see use!
Faiths and Philosophies list some gods in multiple pantheons (ex. Asmodeus in Archdevils, Lamashtu in Demon Lords, Calistria/Desna/Nethys in Elven, Torag in Dwarven).
It also shows at least the names and alignments of part of the Vudrani pantheon. Can't find any more info on them than that though. The Child Goddess might belong with them too.
Also, there is Walkena down in the Mwangi Expanse.
It really is a wonderful resource. Thank you so much.
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Excellent work! This will be very handy for me.
...can't help but notice that some minor deities are missing their alternate spell rules, however (such as Naderi, Achaekek, Ghlaunder, etc.) that were on pages 175-181 of ISG.
Other than that, though, awesome job! I love divine characters, so this will definitely see use!
This was the last thing I was going to get to since it required some minor code changes... but consider this done! I just went through and updated all the Variant Spellcasting bits for all the core gods and listed "other" gods to include this.
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Faiths and Philosophies list some gods in multiple pantheons (ex. Asmodeus in Archdevils, Lamashtu in Demon Lords, Calistria/Desna/Nethys in Elven, Torag in Dwarven).
It also shows at least the names and alignments of part of the Vudrani pantheon. Can't find any more info on them than that though. The Child Goddess might belong with them too.
Also, there is Walkena down in the Mwangi Expanse.
It really is a wonderful resource. Thank you so much.
I originally had the gods in the different pantheons as they appeared in the books, but consolidated them up when Inner Sea Gods came out to more conform with that format. Having the deities in uniquely different pantheons makes it a bit easier/less cluttered when it comes to sorting (otherwise I'd have deities like Calistria or Abadar appearing in a good five or six different pantheons).
As for missing deities, let me know sources/page numbers if you find any more. Keep in mind that I don't really add a deity in unless it has listed domains, favored weapon, alignment, etc. Basically, enough information for a cleric to use it as written. This is why I didn't add the Vudrani deities out of F&P (no domains and such)
Maybe only have them in one place on the pantheon list, but note the membership in multiple pantheons on their specific pages?
So Asmodeus would appear on the Core pantheon list, but on the Asmodeus page it would list Pantheon Core and Archdevils.
That should keep it from getting too cluttered, but still present the info.
And yeah, I can't find any info on the others except name and alignment. Totally understand why you wouldn't add them yet.
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Maybe only have them in one place on the pantheon list, but note the membership in multiple pantheons on their specific pages?
So Asmodeus would appear on the Core pantheon list, but on the Asmodeus page it would list Pantheon Core and Archdevils.
That should keep it from getting too cluttered, but still present the info.
And yeah, I can't find any info on the others except name and alignment. Totally understand why you wouldn't add them yet.
That's not a bad idea, I'll look into setting that up with my next site change.
Random thing I noticed while leafing through this (totally awesome) reference: Under Cayden Cailean only Clerics are listed with the alternate Create Water and Create Food and Water effects, while in Inner Sea Gods, Inquisitors are listed with them as well.
You're right, I must have missed this when I went through and updated it last night. Should be fixed now.
The Eldest Ng entry seems to have loads of traits that don't seem to be actually attributed to him. Probably because of the letters "ng".
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Darn, you're right, him and Ra too. I'll need to put in some kind of exception for them tonight. I was hoping most of the deity names were fairly unique so my code could just look for traits that contained their name as a requirement (or feats/spells/whatever), but if their name can possibly be nested in others... yeah that won't work.
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Awesome change Blake. I love ISG, and your update makes building worshippers of Varro's deities even easier.
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Your site is so awesome! Your so awesome!
In fact...I'm officially changing your name to...
Now the only thing missing is subdomains for every deity.
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Heh, I was wondering if someone would bring those up. So, regarding Subdomains, I wrestled with how to handle those for quite a bit, talked to some players in my games, etc. I came to a few conclusions:
1. Based on Inner Sea Gods and a few other books, there are definitely some Subdomains recommended for certain gods over other ones. Whether these are the *only* ones those gods can supply, I can't say. This does make some sense, Asmodeus has the Law domain, Archon is tied to it. Allowing a cleric of his access to that would just be silly.
However, other times, it doesn't make sense. ISG suggests Heroism for Sarenrae, but not Honor. Clerics of hers could be LG, so I'm not sure why this one is gone.
2. Limiting each deity to a few set subdomains isn't backwards compatible. Right now, all the gods get 4-5 different domains. These are each tied to a host of subdomains, so when a new one comes out, it automatically links back to any god with that domain. Great!
If I tie specific subdomains to each god, and a new book with a new appropriate subdomain comes out, I either: A. Don't add it in unless it specifically lists the god in question, which probably leaves out all but the core deities (which are a rather small subset) OR B: Use my own judgment, which I try to avoid on the site (its intended to be a pure book reference, I leave my own opinions out as often as possible).
3. The biggest worry is that if I list each deity with only certain subdomains, some players may get the impression that it is a hard limitation, and subdomains beyond that are just impossible (which I'm very much unsure is the case).
===============
Now, I thought about who this would matter to. Does PFS care about restricted Subdomains per deity? It doesn't seem so, it looks like a cleric in PFS can pick any subdomain that's legal and ties to his/her own domain.
So really, this only seems to matter for home games, where GMs can make individual judgment calls.
In the end, I decided to leave them out. Subdomains are already just one click away (click any of the listed domains and it takes you to a page for that domain and all connected subdomains), and if a GM doesn't think Archon makes sense for Asmodeus (or something similar), they can rule as such in their game.
Sweet, thanks for this!
One hiccup I noticed is that the deity Bes seems to have some of Besmara's properties.
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A few minor things that I noticed not sure they need correction but thought I'd put them out there any way. Thanks for all the hard work Karui Kage you are amazing!
Besmara's Bicorn (3.5) Updated to Besmara's Bicorne in ISG
Bronze Dagger of Erastil (3.5) Updated to Bronze Skinning Knife in ISG
Cloak of the Dark Tapestry (3.5) Updated to Cloak of the Night Sky in ISG
Droskar's Guiding Ring "wondrous item" (3.5) Updated to Droskar's Guiding Ring "ring" in ISG
Nightstone of Srrow (3.5) (misspelled) Updated to Nightstone of Sorrow ISG
Shattered Shield of Arnisant (3.5) Updated to Shield of Aroden in Artifacts and Legends
On the question of domains & subdomains I have the following notes from posts by James Jacobs:
[My search-fu has failed me in locating the orginal post.]
From James Jacobs:
We have, basically, 3 categories of god/goddess in Golarion (and thus in Pathfinder).
1: NASCENT DEITIES: We have things like nascent demon lords (like Treerazer) who can grant spells but are only CR 21 to CR 25. These guys are meant to fill the role of "let's kill an evil god as a capstone for this 1st to 20th level campaign" basically. I'd peg these guys at divine rank of 1 or 2 if I had to.
::Nascent deities can grant spells but only have access to three major domains and four subdomains.::
2: DEMIGODS: These guys are what mortals can (in theory) fight and defeat if the mortals are powerful and lucky enough. Demigods include things like demon lords, the Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and some regional deities like Achaekek (the mantis god) or Besmara (the pirate goddess). Whatever "CR" demigods end up at will occupy about the same niche as nascent deities do right now—+1 to +5 over whatever that ultimate, final level cap ends up being. I'd peg these guys at divine rank 8 to 10 if I had to.
::Each demigod has access to four domains and five subdomains.::
3: DEITIES: These are NOT things mortals can fight. They can oppose them, and given the right combination of legendary feats, they can even be defeated, but they won't ever have stat blocks. At least, not unless we decide to do a "Deity level ruleset" or something like that, but even then... I'm not keen on letting actual combat stats out for deities. The game would probably have to be completely different to accommodate that type of play experience. These guys would all be divine rank 20, I guess.
::Each god has access to five domains and six subdomains.::
[The stuff listing the # domains & subdomains is the post I can't locate.]
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A few minor things that I noticed not sure they need correction but thought I'd put them out there any way. Thanks for all the hard work Karui Kage you are amazing!
Besmara's Bicorn (3.5) Updated to Besmara's Bicorne in ISG
Bronze Dagger of Erastil (3.5) Updated to Bronze Skinning Knife in ISG
Cloak of the Dark Tapestry (3.5) Updated to Cloak of the Night Sky in ISG
Droskar's Guiding Ring "wondrous item" (3.5) Updated to Droskar's Guiding Ring "ring" in ISG
Nightstone of Srrow (3.5) (misspelled) Updated to Nightstone of Sorrow ISG
Shattered Shield of Arnisant (3.5) Updated to Shield of Aroden in Artifacts and Legends
Thank you so much for doing this. My database only catches duplicates if the name remains the same, so these escaped my notice. I've updated the older entries so they fold into the newer ones now. :)
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On the question of domains & subdomains I have the following notes from posts by James Jacobs:
[My search-fu has failed me in locating the orginal post.]
From James Jacobs:
We have, basically, 3 categories of god/goddess in Golarion (and thus in Pathfinder).1: NASCENT DEITIES: We have things like nascent demon lords (like Treerazer) who can grant spells but are only CR 21 to CR 25. These guys are meant to fill the role of "let's kill an evil god as a capstone for this 1st to 20th level campaign" basically. I'd peg these guys at divine rank of 1 or 2 if I had to.
::Nascent deities can grant spells but only have access to three major domains and four subdomains.::
2: DEMIGODS: These guys are what mortals can (in theory) fight and defeat if the mortals are powerful and lucky enough. Demigods include things like demon lords, the Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and some regional deities like Achaekek (the mantis god) or Besmara (the pirate goddess). Whatever "CR" demigods end up at will occupy about the same niche as nascent deities do right now—+1 to +5 over whatever that ultimate, final level cap ends up being. I'd peg these guys at divine rank 8 to 10 if I had to.
::Each demigod has access to four domains and five subdomains.::
3: DEITIES: These are NOT things mortals can fight. They can oppose them, and given the right combination of legendary feats, they can even be defeated, but they won't ever have stat blocks. At least, not unless we decide to do a "Deity level ruleset" or something like that, but even then... I'm not keen on letting actual combat stats out for deities. The game would probably have to be completely different to accommodate that type of play experience. These guys would all be divine rank 20, I guess.
::Each god has access to five domains and six subdomains.::
[The stuff listing the # domains & subdomains is the post I can't locate.]
That's a bit disappointing. My biggest problem with Inquisitions, for example, being directly tied to deities and not domains was that it had little to no backwards compatibility. If a new deity is released, Paizo is not going to back and tell us all the Inquisitions it can use. Heck, they barely tell us any non-core gods (and there are a LOT of those).
With subdomains, I really appreciate the simple tie to domains when it comes to updating. If I were to tie only six subdomains to a five domain deity, it almost feels like I'd be doing a greater disservice then leaving them unmentioned. If a new subdomain comes out, is every god that can use it going to be listed? If they do, I have to imagine it will be strictly core ones, maybe some others.
I did some looking around and still can't find anything printed in a book that says deities are restricted, beyond the implication in ISG. Personally, I'd rather leave things unsaid on my own sight and let individual GMs decide to restrict them to the recommended ones in ISG, or just open them up and go with what makes sense. When it comes to PFS, I don't think there's any rule in place either.
Thanks for checking though, it is interesting, but I think I'll just leave things the way they are now on my site. Omission leaves me free to not speak on it one way or the other.
That's OK, Kage. Personally, for my homebrew, I give the gods auto-access to their alignment domains in addition to the # of domains and sub-domains JJ listed.
You have a point about the sub-domains as well. Many of the new ones seem to fit various gods already assigned the 'max' number as well as, if not better than, the original ones.
Perhaps the best solution is to mark the listed ones as 'PFS preferred', noting that these are the only ones that can be used in a PFS game, and allow GMs the freedom to pick those that might better fit for non-PFS games.
As for Inquisitions...perhaps using a similar route? Listed ones are 'PFS preferred', others, based on their deity, are GM option.
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I finally remembered the term I wanted: PFS legal!
The listed domains & inquisitions are PFS legal, the rest are GM options.
Thank you for your work.
Yes, I appreciate all you've done as well.
Thank you.
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That's OK, Kage. Personally, for my homebrew, I give the gods auto-access to their alignment domains in addition to the # of domains and sub-domains JJ listed.
You have a point about the sub-domains as well. Many of the new ones seem to fit various gods already assigned the 'max' number as well as, if not better than, the original ones.
Perhaps the best solution is to mark the listed ones as 'PFS preferred', noting that these are the only ones that can be used in a PFS game, and allow GMs the freedom to pick those that might better fit for non-PFS games.
As for Inquisitions...perhaps using a similar route? Listed ones are 'PFS preferred', others, based on their deity, are GM option.
See, that's the thing, I don't know for sure that those listed Subdomains are the only PFS-Legal options for those gods. I know that Subdomains, in and of themselves, are Legal or not, but as for the "a deity only has six or five specific ones" part? That I'm not sure on.
Subdomains were introduced in the APG, and I looked through that book, the "Additional Resources" doc and the guide, and couldn't find anything that said they were limited. ISG is the first time I saw anything that seemed to limit the subdomains, but even then it wasn't listed in a very solid way.
This is why I'm hesitant to list them myself. I like to be very sure of whether something is the rule or not before I call it out, and with limited subdomains/deities, I haven't been sure yet. Are there other books beyond ISG that mention this? I really would like to know, and it wouldn't be *hard* to add a section like that in, I just want to be sure. :)
And thanks to everyone else for all the support, you guys are great. Main reason I do the site was to help players out, so I'm glad you all enjoy it!
It's certainly not clear. JJ talks frequently about the number of domains & subdomains a deity provides as being a direct result of what level of god they are. Meanwhile, Subdomains are introduced in the 32 & 64 page books, listed as being granted by various deities, allowed in PFS per the additional resources page, and then not mentioned in the Appendix of ISG. Pharasma (and only Pharasma), for example, just got the brand new Psychopomp subdomain in Champions of Balance a month before Inner Sea Gods came out, which makes no mention of it. Paizo's really giving mixed messages about subdomain access.
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You and I are pretty much on the same page. :) As far as I can tell, there is some intent to limit the access of certain subdomains, but it's never very clear. That's the primary reason I'm not saying anything "officially" on my site, and just leave it up to the user. It may result in a slight inconvenience (subdomains being one click away instead of right there), but I want to avoid mixed messages.
Hm. I distinctly remember seeing a post from James Jacobs listing numbers of domains for all three levels, however, that one I cannot locate.
However, in multiple posts in the 'Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!' thread he does respond to questioners with the gods=>5 domains/6 sub-domains; demigods=> 4 domains/5 sub-domains, so the 3 domains/4 sub-domains for nascent deities seems right.
Two specific posts:
page 507 from Nov 20, 2012
page 736 from Oct 1, 2013
So, I guess it depends on how official you count his posts in that thread.
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I don't count them official at all, to be truthful :) I do often use some of his rulings in my own games, but I'd never use that thread as official errata or FAQ, nor do I think it's intended to be such. I pretty much just use the books, the rare blog post (really just those two posts that had subdomains that were PFS-legal way back when), and the FAQ/errata.
OK, works for me.
Considering the effort you've put into your site, I'm fine with the rulings you chose to make.
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Hmmm. That does give it a bit more credence. It still doesn't help with my main problem: if they've already decided on a set 5-6 subdomains for every deity, then that means no one can ever use any new subdomain.
It seems to me that this is still less a hard ruling, and more of a recommendation... but I'm not sure.
Actually, that thread may back up your opinion Kage.
I listed posts that reflected domain +1for sub-domains, however, in his post in that thread on page 5, dated Feb 4, 2013 he states that deities giving 4 domains only give 4 sub-domains, in direct contradiction of earlier and later posts in other theads!
Why is patient optimist listed as a desna trait? That's erastil's iirc. It's a pretty minor thing, though.
I must say, I love the work you put into your site, and I'm glad I found out about it. A lot of people use the SRD in my group, which, while it works, sometimes doesn't have the actual wording of class features or class names (like calling the Rasmarian priest the false priest), an issue your site doesn't have. Keep up the good work!
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Why is patient optimist listed as a desna trait? That's erastil's iirc. It's a pretty minor thing, though.
Interestingly, it seems like this is because back in "Cheliax, Empire of Devils", the trait was labeled as being available to followers of Desna or Erastil. It was re-printed two other times since, and in both of those, it was changed to just Erastil. My code saw that at one point in its history it was with Desna and linked it appropriately.
Since you were kind enough to point this out, I've gone and changed the history so that it doesn't have the link to Desna anymore. I'm glad you enjoy the site!
That's a great site! Well done!
Thank you Karui.
Now we just need you to update Alchemy Manual, Undead Slayer's Handbook, and Inner Sea Combat... ;)