Ok so I've been DMing a game for about a month and so far everyone's having fun and things are great. However there is a bit of a problem that I found in our last session.
Now the team is as follows, all characters are level 4 except the Wizard who is level 3.
Hammer/Shield Cleric
Sword/Board Fighter
Great Sword Barbarian
Celestial Blasting Sorcerer
Battlefield Control Wizard
Archer Ranger
Now everyone is fine, except the ranger is underpowered compared to the others. The fighter does about 10-22 damage a round (and he's a tank), the barb does 15-27 when power attack and rage are in effect. The cleric heals for about 2-24 damage when channeling and doing quicken casting. (Plus he's got other spells and is a decent tank.) The sorcerer launches burning hands and holy fires, doing tons of splash damage. And the wizard is doing great at rendering foes useless via color spray, glitterdust and other useful spells.
Now sadly all the ranger can do right now is 1-8 damage via the longbow. It was especially saddening last encounter when they fought against 30 orcs (they were a bit stronger than in the book). Everyone was decimating enemies, the casters taking them out in hordes, the meleeers taking dudes out and tanking for the party and the cleric keeping everyone alive. And here we have the ranger taking two shots to kill a single orc. And I could just hear the disappointment in her voice when she rolled for damage, "I did only three damage?"
If this keeps up I'm thinking our ranger player will get bored fast, or at worst annoyed with me. I was thinking I could have her change one of her feats to rapid fire seeing as archer rangers at her level could have it by now. That would up her dps a bit. Also I could add in some of her favored enemies to fight. However those two things won't change much for her when compared to the rest of the party.
Her damage would go up from 1-8 to 2-16, (4-18 favored enemy) but that still isn't saying much when the barbarian gets 15-27 damage when he's raging power attacking. It's not even much compared to the fighter who does 10-22 damage per round because of his shield bashing. And the casters are doing a ton too. Oh and heck, I forgot to say that the wizard is fond of enlarging the melee warriors, making them even stronger.
Overall, is there a way to make our ranger better? Even more importantly, is there a way to make her better without making the other players feel like I was playing favorites?
Forgot to say that they just leveled up at the end of last session, so they just got to level 4.
Archers are very good at doing damage, so this is likely a build problem.
Post the build and the point buy allowed, along with available sources for feats and spells.
archery gets rapidly more powerful at higher level. You are right at the brief couple of levels before archery starts to get very strong.
however, as wraithstrike said, it might be a build problem.
your ranger needs point blank shot, precise shot, deadly aim, rapid shot, and manyshot asap. You should be able to grab most of these by level 6.
Agreed, we are going to need to see her build. Im guessing that the other players are more experienced, or have a better understanding of the system.
Off the top of my head, the first problem I see is that sheis still using a basic longbow, and not a composite longbow to gain her Str adjustment to damage, and the second is the lack of rapid shot.
Throw bow using enemies at the party?
Sometimes as a DM/or player I find that the best combats are ones that cater to to either party strengths giving everyone some equal task or cater to their weaknesses turning a routine or moderate encounter into more difficult fair.
For example, you said the party fought 30 orcs. (Christ dude really? did any of them die, damn man) So what if say 30 orcs were accompanied by goblin archers on a higher ledge that was most easily accessed by arrows?
Until something statistically can be or may be done to adjust her character, take special note perhaps to involve her character's skill set into by-passing obstacles and challenges.
And yes, I agree, that throwing in a few more of her favored enemies would be nice.
Wraithstrike said archers are good at doing damage and it may be a build issue, and that maybe so. I'd give more outside the obvious for it but thelast archer I saw was very, un-orthadox. (Zen archer monk/inquisitor)
1-8 is pretty low for a ranger to be honest. Composite longbow should use strength at least, point blank shot can add more if you take it, and +1 weapons can't be too far off. That's before feats that add more arrows and damage too. Deadly aim and rapid shot are both really nice to have.
Throw bow using enemies at the party?
Sometimes as a DM/or player I find that the best combats are ones that cater to to either party strengths giving everyone some equal task or cater to their weaknesses turning a routine or moderate encounter into more difficult fair.
On the other hand, sometimes a player is legitimately underpowered and trying to force them to look useful by gimping others isn't the best way to handle it. The fighter might still do more with a composite longbow of his own, or the casters might still nuke face. Or worse case scenario, you succeeded in making everyone else feel like crap.
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If the Ranger has any strength bonus, she should get a STR bow. If the Ranger only has a 10 STR, then she's probably badly designed. With a 10 STR, the Ranger probably can't even carry her equipment without being encumbered.
Also, consider taking Deadly Aim, which is the archer's equivalent of power attack. At 4th level, the Ranger would do +4 damage with the bow.
At 6th level, take Improved Precise Shot. Take Manyshot when you can and don't forget Clustered Shot for creatures with DR. The Fighter and Paladin will envy the Clustershot as there isn't an equivalent for melee types (well, a Fighter could take Penetrating Strike).
Assuming STR 14 and a suitable bow, plus Deadly Aim, she would be getting 1d8+6. She gets two attacks to the 1 attack that others get, so that helps make up for the lesser damage per attack.
Also, remember that not all opponents are easily dealt with by melee characters. The archer will shine against those foes that are not easily engaged by melee characters. For example, I'm playing in a game where we encountered Tiny Flying Fey and the only person in the group capable of dropping them was the archer. While the others can whip out bows and crossbows, they just can't compete with the archer in such situations. This isn't necessarily skewing things towards the archer... ranged encounters, encounters against flying foes, etc. are and should be reasonably common, especially in the wilderness.
Finally, take a look at the spells available to the Ranger. Gravity Bow is a 1st level spell that lasts 1 minute/level and increases a Longbow 1d8 to 2d6 damage.
Mostly, on these boards, you'll find people complaining about how over-powered archery is. Check the archer's build and make sure she built the archer correctly. Maybe let her have a single re-design at 4th level and check the guides.
Personally, I find most archers a bit light on damage at low levels, and they get much better at the middle levels.
Gonna need to see the build to really help. General suggestions?
At 4th level the ranger should have rapid shot, so it should be 2-16 damage, and don't forget a bow has x3 crit. Also, by level 4 I would expect the ranger can afford a composite bow. That should be +1-2 damage per shot which for rapid shot is +2-4. Now we're looking at 4-20. Still not up there with the fighter or the raging barbarian. BUT, we're not done. For one, next level the ranger should be taking deadly aim. That's another +4 damage, per shot. Now it's 12-28, likely a bigger jump in damage than the fighter or barbarian will see in one level (even with the fighter getting weapon training). So they're pretty much on par now. If having that damage right now is really important, you could even swap out rapid shot and deadly aim. ONE MORE THING! This is the biggest one. That's a ranger, and that means it's YOUR job to give her her favored enemy every now and then. That's another +2 to Damage and to hit (which makes average damage increase), per shot. At 4th level, that's 8-22, and at fifth it goes to +4 (plus DA), so it's 20-36. Not too shabby.
In general, a fighter should do the most consistent damage, a barb should win when raging, and a ranger should win against favored enemy. Roughly. And based on the numbers I put here, and the ones you gave, that's what would happen.
Bows can get bigger too. Tell your spellcasters. Or she can do it herself with gravity bow at fourth level. Why isn't she doing that?
Ok so I don't have the character sheets right now, but here's what I can remember about her stats:
Race is elf, 25 point buy.
STR: 11
DEX: 20
CON: 10
INT: 12
WIS: 14
CHA: 10
She has the point blank shot, precise shot, Composite Longbow focus feats from what I remember. She certainly has the best hit rate of the team.
From what I'm hearing, I think I'll give her the option to change her feats to rapid fire and deadly aim instead of point blank shot and the CLongbow focus. It will be up to her. Also I guess I'll sprinkle in humans to the encounters coming up, they are her favored enemy. From what it sounds like you guys are saying, it's all about the damage dealing feats. (Guess that's obvious, I'm facepalming right now haha!)
I did not know about the gravity bow spell, just looked it up. That should definitely help her. I'm a little hesitant on adding stuff outside of the core rule book though. Because I'm unfamiliar with all the rules there.
Also, they all just got to level 4 sans the wizard. So next session will be the first one she will have magic. And an animal companion also, which I actually just remembered she is going to have. Nice! The animal is definitely going to be a help here too!
Justin Ricobaldi: The encounter with the 30 orcs was actually designed to be very easy. The orcs were all on a wall and the pcs were all storming the wall. Think of it like an opposite of Helm's Deep battle. There was a staircase on one side of the wall that the pcs could use to storm the place. And there were three ladders along the wall.
The orcs were made to be stupid here. Half of them began to climb down the ladders, that's 5 per ladder here. Around 10 other orcs went down the stairs and threw a few javelins. And the remaining 5 stayed put and shot arrows.
The sorcerer lit one of the ladders on fire, dealing damage to 5 orcs and having the ladder fall down. This left most of the 5 prone. The fighter cut down a different ladder with his sword, leaving those five prone and then a good NPC did the same with the last one. Once all those orcs were prone and in big clumps, they were easy pickings for the sorcerer's burning hands and the wizard's color spray. The barbarian was enlarged and held the stairs while everyone was doing this. The wizard also glitterdusted the orc archers at the top, so they were out for awhile. At that point it was clean up time and they finished everything off smoothly. Throughout all of this the cleric was channeling and healing constantly, everyone was fine.
In any case, thanks everyone for the advice! I guess archers might be designed to be better in the late game from what I'm hearing. I'll tell her she can change her feats around and will definitely throw in some humans.
From what it sounds like you guys are saying, it's all about the damage dealing feats
Well, that and the lack of a strength modifier to damage. That said, as you level as an archer you get quiet a bit. When you fire four arrows a round at level six with deadly aim you tend to do some damage. Archers can be pretty devastating.
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Ok so I don't have the character sheets right now, but here's what I can remember about her stats:
Race is elf, 25 point buy.
STR: 11
DEX: 20
CON: 12
INT: 12
WIS: 14
CHA: 10She has the point blank shot, precise shot, Composite Longbow focus feats from what I remember. She certainly has the best hit rate of the team.
Just drop Weapon Focus Longbow for Rapid Shot.
Her stats probably needs to be moved around. A 20 Dex is really unnecessary. Consider...
Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 14
Cha: 8
Much more balanced as the Charisma is rather unnecessary for a Ranger anyways. +2 Damage for -1 Hit. Humorously, this is the ratio for Deadly Aim. With Rapidshot she should be dealing approximately 4 more damage a round.
Another way to be help out as GM: allow her to find +1 Holy arrows or similar.
Ok so I don't have the character sheets right now, but here's what I can remember about her stats:
Race is elf, 25 point buy.
STR: 11
DEX: 20
CON: 10
INT: 12
WIS: 14
CHA: 10She has the point blank shot, precise shot, Composite Longbow focus feats from what I remember. She certainly has the best hit rate of the team.
My suggestion
STR: 14
DEX: 17 (15+2 elf)
CON: 14 (16-2 elf)
INT: 10 (8+2 elf)
WIS: 14
CHA: 10
That gives 1d8+3 assuming a magical bow.
with rapid show that goes up to 2d8+6
The boosted con also means the ranger can actually take a hit.
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My turn!
STR: 16
DEX: 17 (15+2 elf) +1 DEX at level 4
CON: 12 (14-2 elf)
INT: 10 (8+2 elf)
WIS: 14
CHA: 10
Stat increase for Levels 8,12,16,20 - Either all to STR or all to DEX (player's preference). I prefer STR.
I like high CON, but I feel a 14 is too expensive, and 10 is definitely too low. You should try to stay out of melee and I think the 16 STR does you better in the long run. I think it comes down to preference, so you'll get different recommendations from different people on this. If you like the 14 CON, then go STR 14 and CON 14 - everything else stays the same. In either case, I'd take the +1 hit point for favored class at all levels.
If you're allowing racial traits, I'd consider swapping out Elven Magic for Silent Hunter if the player is planning on using Stealth.
1-Point Blank Shot
2R-Rapid Shot
3-Precise Shot
3R-Endurance (1d8+3 x2 shots with STR bow at L3/4, more if enchanted)
5-Deadly Aim (1d8+7 x2 shots at L5, more if enchanted)
6R-Improved Precise Shot (1d8+7 x3 shots at L6, more if enchanted)
7-Manyshot (1d8+7 x3 shots + manyshot at L7, more if enchanted)
(1d8+9 x3 shots + manyshot at L8, more if enchanted)
9-Clustered Shots
10R-Point Blank Master
Get a MW STR 16 Composite Longbow ASAP (for now), then enchant it (when you have the funds) to +1, then add Adaptive (auto adjusts to user's STR). On arrows, I personally like getting cold iron since they're almost as cheap as regular arrows and the special material might come in handy. A few silver arrows are good to have just in case. Adamantine is probably too expensive.
I'd also suggest picking up a mithral chain shirt at some point. STR and DEX boosting items are good.
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Best idea:
Drop a magic bow in the meantime, but just give the player some good build advice. Archery builds prevail in the end.
Maybe offer a feat swap, but don't make it a big thing.
It's is important to help the player, but without coddling them, or making other players jealous.
It's unfortunate, but yeah, an archer needs decent strength to do damage. Definitly needs at least deadly aim to compete with the others, if her to-hit is already the highest, it shouldnt be a problem. But in the long run, her low strength will be a liability.
I wont propose any builds (because it's probably locked already) but it would be best to trade weapon focus for deadly aim (maybe?). It's the easiest thing that doesnt mess with prerequisites. Maybe check out some of the ranger guides for help. Archers are generally feat-starved as well, so weapon focus might be too much.
I could just hear the disappointment in her voice when she rolled for damage, "I did only three damage?"
What is the player's vision for her character? Was it as an archery-based combatant? Or did she want her ranger to be the skill monkey and scout, a role that fits her stats better? I would not suggest rearranging her stats until that is clear.
Her disappointment above shows that she realized that with the fighter and barbarian dealing 10-27 damage a turn each, a mere 1-8 damage a turn is not significantly contributing to combat. Her 3 damage would be completely redundant if the barbarian on his next turn smashes that orc down to -7 hit points. This does not mean that the ranger wants to focus primarily on combat; all it shows is that she wants to contribute.
Weapon Focus(longbow) (which works for composite longbow too) is about improving the chances of hitting, which are already great for this character. (Unless it is about meeting the prerequisites for other feats, such as Point Blank Master from the Advanced Player's Guide.) It would be best to let her swap that feat for one that increases damage instead, such as Rapid Shot or Deadly Aim.
I did not know about the gravity bow spell, just looked it up. That should definitely help her. I'm a little hesitant on adding stuff outside of the core rule book though. Because I'm unfamiliar with all the rules there.
The ranger spells in the Core Rulebook seldom help the ranger deal damage. For example, Entangle is battlefield control, Speak with Animals is information gathering, and Barkskin is defense. The APG filled in the missing offensive spells. Gravity Bow is the first-level spell for helping archers. The third-level spell Instant Enemy removes the wrong-species problem from the ranger's favored enemy class ability, making her a good general-purpose combatant.
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I like Captain Zoom's build : high STR is very important. I could see WIS as low as 12 in the beginning, since she won't be casting level 3+ spells before a few levels (and will have a headband of WIS+2 by that time).
She should be a human really (for the extra feat).
She should get a mount for animal companion, so that she can full attack more often. Both she and her mount should get the Lookout teamwork feat, for less being surprised and even more full attacks.
Her favored enemy should be something she meets often in fights !!! Consider how much more fun she would have had if she had favored enemy : orcs. You are the GM. It is your responsibility to give her good advice when choosing her favored terrains and favored enemies.
For special materials for the arrows, she should use the weapon blanches. They are AWESOME !!! Especially the Ghost Salt (IIRC) that give ghost-touch.
There is a guide to the archer ranger in the Advice section. Check it ;-)
A +1 weapon with flaming or shocking for +1d6 might help a lot. The PC can pick up Deadly Aim next level and Rapid Shot at 6th. Things should be OK.
I played a while back with a Ranger who took 3 levels of Rogue and got Sniper Goggles. The extra 2d6+4 damage made her pretty deadly whenever she'd win initiative, especially if we also had a surprise round. She also had a helmet with stag antlers which allowed her to make an opponent flat footed as a swift action 3 times per day. A lot of monsters never lived to take a turn.
Ok so I don't have the character sheets right now, but here's what I can remember about her stats:
Race is elf, 25 point buy.
STR: 11
DEX: 20
CON: 10
INT: 12
WIS: 14
CHA: 10She has the point blank shot, precise shot, Composite Longbow focus feats from what I remember. She certainly has the best hit rate of the team.
From what I'm hearing, I think I'll give her the option to change her feats to rapid fire and deadly aim instead of point blank shot and the CLongbow focus. It will be up to her. Also I guess I'll sprinkle in humans to the encounters coming up, they are her favored enemy. From what it sounds like you guys are saying, it's all about the damage dealing feats. (Guess that's obvious, I'm facepalming right now haha!)
I did not know about the gravity bow spell, just looked it up. That should definitely help her. I'm a little hesitant on adding stuff outside of the core rule book though. Because I'm unfamiliar with all the rules there.
Also, they all just got to level 4 sans the wizard. So next session will be the first one she will have magic. And an animal companion also, which I actually just remembered she is going to have. Nice! The animal is definitely going to be a help here too!
Justin Ricobaldi: The encounter with the 30 orcs was actually designed to be very easy. The orcs were all on a wall and the pcs were all storming the wall. Think of it like an opposite of Helm's Deep battle. There was a staircase on one side of the wall that the pcs could use to storm the place. And there were three ladders along the wall.
The orcs were made to be stupid here. Half of them began to climb down the ladders, that's 5 per ladder here. Around 10 other orcs went down the stairs and threw a few javelins. And the remaining 5 stayed put and shot arrows.
The sorcerer lit one of the ladders on fire, dealing damage to 5 orcs and having the ladder fall down. This left most of the 5 prone. The fighter cut down a different ladder with his sword, leaving those five prone and then a good...
Ok, my turn at stats:
STR: 16
DEX: 17 (15+2 elf) +1 DEX at level 4
CON: 12 (14-2 elf)
INT: 12 (10+2 elf)
WIS: 13
CHA: 10
The big difference between mine and the others? The lower wisdom. You don't need to worry about DCs too much since most of your spells will be buffing/utility/control. And you don't need a 14 until level 13. Get a headband before then, or even use one of your natural boosts. And if you wanted to dump CHA and have a normal INT you could do a little better. For the record, a 25 point buy makes it really easy for the spellcasters to get that 20 starting stat. I guess the ranger thought that sounded cool too, but it's really not as good of an idea for her. So even before the game started, the other players had an advantage in that regard.
Unfortunately, you have to keep Point Blank Shot. It's a prerequisite for rapid shot (and thus manyshot) and precise shot. You can get one with a combat style feat, but you really need both. And +1 to hit and damage ain't bad. But yes, please ditch Weapon Focus (she'll need it if you want to let her get Point Blank Master). If you want to take it, take it around level 9. If you're only allowing core, and not snap shot.
If you're new to the rules, I don't know how often you're employing cover and concealment. If you're not, you should. And if you are, make sure your ranger takes Improved Precise Shot at level 6. If you aren't going to use cover and concealment, she can take manyshot instead and just wreck everything.
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Did she not take deadly aim?
IMHO she needs a better strength score, but she still shouldn't be doing as awful as she is.
HEADS UP: Your fighter will be the next one to have problems.
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I just noticed that the black raven mentioned animal companions. If you allow the Boon Companion feat the Ranger can have a full strength animal companion and be like, "Look at my horse! My horse is amazing!" (the wolf could be nice too)
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If you like you could look at the treantmonk ranger guide for inspiration.
fyi domestichauscat, she can't drop point blank shot, she needs it as a pre-requisite for Precise shot, which is pretty much required. Although I suppose if she picked up Precise Shot with the ranger bonus feat she wouldn't technically need to take Point Blank Shot first. Still, my preference is to get it, Point Blank Shot is a good feat.
other than that, yeah, rapid shot and deadly aim would help out immensely.
Yeah she and everyone else are all new to the game. I helped them all make the character sheet and I thought she'd be ok when I looked over it. However I guess I didn't realize how much she was spreading herself thin with her ability scores and the feats. Now after reading through the responses here, it looks like she focused too much on being able to hit things and not enough on damaging things.
She said she wanted to be a Legolas type character, one who was able to hit everything anywhere with a bow. So this situation is the result. I'll have to talk to her about it and help her change the character if she wants to.
As for the encounters, I was planning on making her shine a bit in the next fight.
The next encounter is gonna be crow based. The PCS will walk past a farm and a scarecrow (the one in bestiary 2) will allure those who fail their will saves. Once the failed will savers get to the scarecrow, it will hit two of the pcs. Then 3 to 5, (haven't decided yet) dire corbies will sneak attack the ones who made their saves. Lastly, a swarm of crows will attack all the pcs. (Though their hit sucks, so only two hits or so to be expected from the swarm. I'm using the stats of the bat swarm in bestiary 1.)
In any case, the ranger is the only one who will do any decent damage to the swarm seeing as they're all flying above the others. Plus, I think I'll rule that she will do double damage to them also, because one arrow could pierce many crows at once as it flies through the swarm. While a sword strike will just hit those that are in front of the swinger. Granted, the casters will rock against the swarm too, but they will have to keep their eyes on the dire corbies which more than likely are gonna be on their butts.
But from what I'm hearing, it seems like I do need to add more humans for her. That will be happening in the future for sure. They're already going to a wizard's mansion to kidnap him. So what I could do is add lot of bodyguards for her to fight there for example.
You guys are the best for this! Thanks!
Yeah she and everyone else are all new to the game. I helped them all make the character sheet and I thought she'd be ok when I looked over it. However I guess I didn't realize how much she was spreading herself thin with her ability scores and the feats. Now after reading through the responses here, it looks like she focused too much on being able to hit things and not enough on damaging things.
She said she wanted to be a Legolas type character, one who was able to hit everything anywhere with a bow. So this situation is the result. I'll have to talk to her about it and help her change the character if she wants to.
As for the encounters, I was planning on making her shine a bit in the next fight.
The next encounter is gonna be crow based. The PCS will walk past a farm and a scarecrow (the one in bestiary 2) will allure those who fail their will saves. Once the failed will savers get to the scarecrow, it will hit two of the pcs. Then 3 to 5, (haven't decided yet) dire corbies will sneak attack the ones who made their saves. Lastly, a swarm of crows will attack all the pcs. (Though their hit sucks, so only two hits or so to be expected from the swarm. I'm using the stats of the bat swarm in bestiary 1.)
In any case, the ranger is the only one who will do any decent damage to the swarm seeing as they're all flying above the others. Plus, I think I'll rule that she will do double damage to them also, because one arrow could pierce many crows at once as it flies through the swarm. While a sword strike will just hit those that are in front of the swinger. Granted, the casters will rock against the swarm too, but they will have to keep their eyes on the dire corbies which more than likely are gonna be on their butts.
But from what I'm hearing, it seems like I do need to add more humans for her. That will be happening in the future for sure. They're already going to a wizard's mansion to kidnap him. So what I could do is add lot of bodyguards for her to fight there for example.
You guys are...
If the bow does double damage to the swarm, it'll be doing regular damage, since piercing weapons normally do half to a swarm. THat may not be a good precedent. A better idea may be to have a swarm or two hound the melee fighters while a "boss" crow or 2 (instead of corbies?) flies above the party and uses some form of ranged attack to cause problems. Only the archer will be able to really fight back while the ground fighters work to protect her and the spellcasters.
Also, swarms don't have to hit rolls, so it can't suck. They simply damage anything they're on top of at the end of their turn.
fyi domestichauscat, she can't drop point blank shot, she needs it as a pre-requisite for Precise shot, which is pretty much required.Incorrect, on both points. Rangers pick up Archery feats through Combat Style Options, and can ignore the prerequisites.
Although I suppose if she picked up Precise Shot with the ranger bonus feat she wouldn't technically need to take Point Blank Shot first.
fyi domestichauscat, she can't drop point blank shot, she needs it as a pre-requisite for Precise shot, which is pretty much required.Incorrect, on both points. Rangers pick up Archery feats through Combat Style Options, and can ignore the prerequisites.
Yes, but Rapid Shot and Clustered Shots both require Point Blank Shot as a prerequisite too, and you don't have that many style feats. If you're a dedicated archer you still pretty much have to take Point Blank Shot.
Point blank shot is good for archers anyways.
Davick: Oh sharks! I have never fought against a swarm in any game lol! I thought from reading the bat swarm in the bestiary that it had a to hit of 0 lol! Also I did not know about the half damage piercing rule. Crap, now I'll have to edit the encounter. The giant raven idea is a good one, that would be fun to fight!
Rodinia: I was going to recommend her to get a rapier and the weapon finesse feat at some point. And then later have her take dervish dance and go scimitar. I don't know about much non core feats, but I found that one in the Inner Sea Region book. That would be perfect for her if she wanted to go switch hitter on stuff.
I'm sure she'll keep point blank shot because it's pretty good anyways.
fyi domestichauscat, she can't drop point blank shot, she needs it as a pre-requisite for Precise shot, which is pretty much required.Incorrect, on both points. Rangers pick up Archery feats through Combat Style Options, and can ignore the prerequisites.
A Ranger switch-hitter build does not need Precise shot. That's the whole idea: shoot until they are close, then draw a two handed weapon. At least, that's how the original Ranger did things.
Her build has way too much dexterity, and not nearly enough Strength. Unless the GM allows her a one-time chance to rebuild, including changing stats, she will never be able to keep up in combat.
The sword-and-board fighter will soon run into the same issue.
Take it easy mate. Not only is PBS pretty ubiquitous as a prereq for the good archery feats, but the OP says this is supposed to be a Legalos type ranger, not an Aragorn switch hitter type. Chill out.
Sidenote: Legalos may be better represented as a fighter with archery feats (or even the underwhelming archer archetype from APG) rather than a ranger. But it's debatable.
EDIT: In term of boss crows, there's Irrisen's Witchcrow, Greater.
It's a CR 3, and it can debuff from the air, exactly the kind of flying distraction your ranger can deal with. It uses hexes from the advanced player's guide, so it's not core though.
Legolas is a Zen Archer. More feats than fighter and he is super mobile and very lightly armored.
Sidenote: Legalos may be better represented as a fighter with archery feats (or even the underwhelming archer archetype from APG) rather than a ranger. But it's debatable.
Ah, the zen archer, he even gets point blank master for free, incredibly early, like Legalos. Why do other archers even exist?
Ah, the zen archer, he even gets point blank master for free, incredibly early, like Legalos. Why do other archers even exist?
So the zen archer isn't tempted to become full of himself thus throwing off his chance to continue his karmic cycle.
@Domestichauscat:
Well, first of all, I applaud you for attempting to help your player in this regard.
My first thought was: Why does she need to keep up in damage? Can't she just have a character who sucks at fighting, but does other things?
But seeing as how you said you believe she may get bored of it, and risk not liking her character in the long run, I'll try to come with suggestions.
First thing that popped into my mind was retraining(Check Ultimate Campaign). Allow her character to train her way into a better fit for the party. If she feels she is not keeping up with them, maybe she wants to do something about it.
"you should seek out Dimolthum of Easthaven proper, although he's known as Hawk-Eye Dimol in the <compass direction>. Gnome he is, country was rife with rumours of him when I was younger. Apparently he's the greatest shot this side of the <geographical feature>. Last I heard, he's residing in <city>, but those may just be rumours. Still, it's a place to start"
*que montage of elf training with an old gnomish crackshot, and her being given his +1 crossbow at the end of the training session*
That is just one suggestion.
-Nearyn
Thanks for the giant crow link Davick! Will use it!
And I forgot about the curve Elven blade Rarednaw. Man that would be a good one too if she doesn't want to spend too much feats on melee or is more going for style. Thanks for that.
And Nearyn, you bring up an interesting way to fix the problem via story. That could be an interesting way to address the problem. May also disguise the help she is getting if done right.
Also, those who posted the possible builds or mentioned the archer ranger guides, I'll check those out too. Got two more days till gameday on Friday. Getting down to crunch time.
I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Not looking forward to the Fighter becoming the next victim. That will be a weird problem to fix, more than likely it will be harder than this one. Ah snapples.
Firstly, I'd try and not go too crazy. You don't want to do the rebuild for them, that being said that 20 dex is realllly heavy. Just taking away two points could give a stat array that looks like -
STR 14
DEX 18
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 10
When rebuilding take away two from her dex and let her play with the 7 points as desired. Hopefully she will increase her strength to 14 or 15.
Remove Weapon Focus from her feats and let her fill it with Rapid Shot or Deadly Aim, either is good and you want to leave the choice in the hands of the player.
Also make sure she is applying Point-Blank shot to her rolls when appropriate.
Also - You've found a +1 shocking bow!
At level 3 this could turn out to be -
1d8 + 2 (str) + 2 (deadly aim) + 1 (Point blank shot) + 1 (weapon) + 1d6 (shocking) total of 1d8+6+1d6
Attack is 3 (BAB) + 4 (dex) + 1 (weapon) + 1 (Point blank shot) - 1 Deadly aim total of + 8
Thanks for the giant crow link Davick! Will use it!
And I forgot about the curve Elven blade Rarednaw. Man that would be a good one too if she doesn't want to spend too much feats on melee or is more going for style. Thanks for that.
And Nearyn, you bring up an interesting way to fix the problem via story. That could be an interesting way to address the problem. May also disguise the help she is getting if done right.
Also, those who posted the possible builds or mentioned the archer ranger guides, I'll check those out too. Got two more days till gameday on Friday. Getting down to crunch time.
I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Not looking forward to the Fighter becoming the next victim. That will be a weird problem to fix, more than likely it will be harder than this one. Ah snapples.
The fighter will only be disappointed if he thinks he should be doing as much damage as a raging barbarian or an archer. And he could get close, but not with sword/board. But I take it that means he's consciously giving up some offense for defense. And in that case, his problems won't be so bad. But it is an uphill battle.