Goblin Squad Member
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Looking at the useful overview in the Goblinworks blog: "Adventure in the River Kingdoms", as part of my attempt to write a blog on PvE:
This overview indicates settlements' diverse resource demands.
I was browsing Shroud of the Avatar's "non-combat" options in their forums which I'm hoping is a more microscopic overview that would similarly be in PFO for gathering and requiring eg a sickle [gear requirement] to "gather" herbs as well as various highly diverse skill-training [ability requirement] along these paths:
Magic, Combat, and Crafting Skills
The author d-star is Starr Long one of the devs from UO so a useful point of reference. But yes the long-winded approach is why I've delayed finishing the above blog (!): What I mean is that I discovered that mostly when I think of PvE (and perhaps most players do this too unwittingly) is that you think of killing mobs to get loot and wandering around doing this.
Yet as per PvE = Resource faucet = any object that can be broken down into smaller basic things to then recombine into useful more complex things ie mob, animal, plant, magical stuff, natural stuff (ores) etc, is a much more interesting more world-interacting conception of "PvE" than the former "player vs environment" which should actually be "player + environment" as well. IE PvE is a limited and limiting descriptor tag. I mean it should be PvM (Player vs Mob)?
So,
Q: I was wondering if devs are intending to have as diverse a system of non-combat skills or similar system as that linked?
I think this whole thing will fall into the "Commoner, Expert, Aristocrat" system in PFO (AKA Gathering, Crafting, Leaership). etc. Unless I missed your meaning. Maybe you'll want to look into posts about that (though there's still not much info available).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah that's what I'm hoping it will fall into. In fact I'd imagine these so-called non-combat skills/activities could be a big draw particularly for the "PvE crowd" in mmorpgs. I don't know if that is also the case for the PnP type of pathfinder player as well?
I was waffling towards asking the devs directly if they're similarly expecting to have as broad a range of non-combat skills.
The mistake here is thinking that either crafting or gathering is a pve occupation. In both your main competition is going to be other players either directly or indirectly.
In economic warfare the blood shed may often be more of the golden yellow variety than the red gore of direct combat but it will be no less viscious.
I certainly imagine that competitors will be ruthlessly sabotaged,waylaid,pillaged,undercut etc.
The environment part will I can assure you be an incidental risk and the least of what you will face in the player versus scheme of things
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Goblin Squad Member
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Player vs World might fit, as the gatherers, refiners, and crafters will need support if they can't supply it themselves. And in a big way I imagine. With all the things that will happens when a gusher is found and monsters spawn, what better time for a group of ne'er-do-wells to strike? And in a situation where you wish to attrite your opponents, harming their foundation is the best method, bar none.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks you guys. Those are helpful comments: Splitting pushing against the world setting and what interactions that expands into vs competition and conflict gameplay that perhaps when ppl say they want PvE they are saying they don't want competition or conflict. Mobs are generally a puzzle afterall due to their AI. Hmm, that complicates where Inwas hoping to expound PFO's PvE.
Maybe I'm fishing too deep for the devs to answer about all the non-combat skills in gathering/crafting etc?! Nothing's biting yet, perhaps I'll need a bigger boat.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Zen's comment still has me troubled. More on that later.
With the idea of Raids (reiving) actually being much more accurate name in PFO than in the dungeon-grinds of other mmos, and thinking about PvE, I came to the conclusion that in themepark mmorpgs not only are mobs as dictated by AI a little trifling, but the Bosses themselves should be absolutely amazing to experience and they're really limited and disappointing.
So here was the result of that thought:
If there are any "boss" mobs in PFO then I suggest they be incredibly rare (true bosses) and they should have a GW dev driving them (or one of the alpha backers even). Now that would be an experience... "the field of battle strewn with the bones of the fallen." I think such a boss could induce a large amount of duress in the players which is what you really want for anyone brave or fool-hardy enough to take on such a being of awesome power and not only live to tell the tale but 1 in 1,000 defeat it. Of course the event should be rare and even only a dev-choreographed event .
