I have a group of six people. I know that most of the pre-mades are designed for 4 players, so I wanted to up the CR, so my party wouldn't steam-role through the thing.
The second encounter is a CR 1 encounter with the party going up against three wolves. It says that it awards 400 xp in total, which seems to be correct for a CR 1 encounter. However, I wanted to up it to CR 2 to make it on-par with the party. I checked the PFSRD to find out how much XP an individual wolf has, so I could figure out how many I'd need for a CR 2 encounter. However, it stated that each individual wolf is a CR 1 worth 400 xp.
This confuses me. If that's the case, doesn't it mean that the wolf encounter in CotEF is actually a CR 4? Wouldn't that make it an Epic difficulty encounter?
A wolf is CR 1. (400 xp)
Two wolves are CR 3. (800 xp)
Three wolves are CR 4. (1200 xp)
You are indeed correct, three wolves should be a tough-ish encounter for a 1st level party. However, a first level party of 6 with some healing will probably do okay, just out of sheer economy of actions.
I don't have Crypt of the Everflame at hand, is there any kind of mitigating factor they mention that would make the wolves less than a full challenge?
I find it hard to envision three wolves taking on a party of six, from a roleplaying perspective. I figure they'd follow and eat whatever the players killed (goblins, etc). They might not follow into the dungeon though.
If anyone was injured earlier in the adventure and is straggling behind the party and easy to pick off, then yeah. But wolves aren't stupid.
Maybe those wolves are nerfed? Compared to the bestiary.
Otherwise yes; it seems it would be CR 4 and an epic difficulty encounter.
I would just add one more wolf and add 200 xp. So they get 100 each for defeating them.
Evil Lincoln wrote:
You are indeed correct, three wolves should be a tough-ish encounter for a 1st level party. However, a first level party of 6 with some healing will probably do okay, just out of sheer economy of actions.
That's why I wanted to up the CR. I don't want the players to just steam-roll through what's apparently supposed to be a very challenging encounter.
Evil Lincoln wrote: I don't have Crypt of the Everflame at hand, is there any kind of mitigating factor they mention that would make the wolves less than a full challenge?
I find it hard to envision three wolves taking on a party of six, from a roleplaying perspective. I figure they'd follow and eat whatever the players killed (goblins, etc). They might not follow into the dungeon though.
If anyone was injured earlier in the adventure and is straggling behind the party and easy to pick off, then yeah. But wolves aren't stupid.
Keep in mind, the module is written for four, not six. The only thing I can find is that the wolves are basically starving, and that the players can make them flee combat by tossing them a trail ration.
DonDuckie wrote: Maybe those wolves are nerfed? Compared to the bestiary. Nope. Same exact stats.
As a general rule, if you have 6 players and want to increase the encounter by 2, you can just double whats there. 3 CR 1 wolfs is a cr 4 encounter. 6 CR 1 wolves is a CR 6 encounter. In general if you want to increase the CR of encounters because you have a large party, this is among the better ways to go about it. Adding more monsters is usually a better idea then beefing up the ones that are already there.
Kolokotroni wrote: As a general rule, if you have 6 players and want to increase the encounter by 2, you can just double whats there. 3 CR 1 wolfs is a cr 4 encounter. 6 CR 1 wolves is a CR 6 encounter. In general if you want to increase the CR of encounters because you have a large party, this is among the better ways to go about it. Adding more monsters is usually a better idea then beefing up the ones that are already there. But doesn't that disregard the instructions in the CRB about basing the CR on the APL of the party? It says that if you have a party of 6 or more, to simply increase the APL by 1. By extension, all it would do is add 1 to the CR. Isn't that more reasonable?
Crypt of the Everflame was being written and finalized at the same time the Pathfinder rules were being finalized. The encounter in question is not intended to be epic.. just challenging. I would suggest leaving it as it is, with 3 wolves. That should be appropriate.
Note that there are also some ways characters can apply non-combat solutions, as well.
Edit: I would also recommend the Pathfinder Chronicles podcast. They did a 3-part set on the 3 modules in the Path of Immortality series.
Starving, eh?
You could apply the fatigued condition to the wolves, that would bring them down a bit in CR.
Since you're a new GM, I think you should seize this opportunity to embrace the nuance of the encounter. The PCs can "defeat" these wolves at the mere cost of some rations. Make sure you're playing them like hungry wolves. They stalk, but they don't start an out-and-out confrontation unless they know they can win. They'll pick off wounded PCs, but they won't fight to the death. They will run as soon as it is evident they are losing.
Simply saying "remaining wolves flee once you show them you are not going to be an easy meal..." can change the timbre of your entire campaign. Don't be the guy who treats all encounters as identical deathmatches.
Also, once you establish that killing the enemy to a man is not the sole path to victory, you can introduce higher-than-usual CR challenges that the players are meant to run away from. This should come in handy when they encounter the that's a TPK waiting to happen.
But if the players learn the simple lesson that not every monster is there waiting to be converted to XP by way of the sword, then your game (and theirs) will be forever enhanced!
When the list CR 1, they mean that each wolf is a CR1. The title of the encounter reads "Eyes in the Dark (CR 4, 1200 exp). To keep the CR the same when dealing with 6 players add 50 percent to the encounter. That will keep it the same.
CR 1 = 600 CR 2 = 900 CR CR 3 = 1200 CR 4 = 1800 CR 5 = 2400 CR 6 = 3600
For this encounter I would add 1 or 2 wolves and not worry about the 200 exp over or under.
I would leave the traps the same but add in extra monster's to make up the exp.
i find that the best way to up the CR on modules is this tactic.
for 6 players is the CR multiplied by 1.5 and the party will get the same amount of XP as if there were only 4 players.
for 8 players you multiply the CR by 2 and still giving the party the correct amount of XP.
in doing so, you do not have to double your monsters unless you want. the other option is to add 2 LVLs or HD to the main villains.
also, i would double the room size of your maps due to the larger group size.
this also goes for traps and other trigger effects.
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