You'd need a dexterity modifier of at least +5 and Combat Reflexes, I believe.
I would rule that one action can only trigger one AoO.
For instance, if you have two different feats that give you and AoO if someone falls prone, you would only get one AoO.
Otherwise I don't see a problem with multiple triggers giving you multiple AoOs.
The master of many styles specifically ignores feat requirements for style feats, so it's still a feat he'd need to take.
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Feat stacking and attacks of opportunity question here.
If I'm a Monk, with the Master of Many styles Archetype, so I'm able to use multiple styles at the same time. While using Panther style, and Snake style.If I move through someone's threatened area, with Panther Parry I get a retaliatory strike if they make an AoO against me, with Snake Fang if any attack misses me I can make an AoO, if I hit I can spend an immediate action to make an unarmed strike, if any of these AoO's or unarmed strikes are a Greater Trip maneuver that succeeds, I can make another AoO against that opponent, as well as a Vicious Stomp, on top of my standard action.
For a possible total of 6 attacks, while making my full move.
Even more attacks if I'm simply forget about using my standard action to attack that opponent, and just move through a different opponents threatened area, and provoke from him, getting 5 attacks for the first opponent, and 4 (since I only get 1 Immediate action per turn) for any others that decide to make AoO's against me.
Does that sound correct?
I realize it's a lot of feats, but making that many attacks, and causing an opponent to fall prone seems pretty crazy.
I was honestly greatly considering a build like this with Vital Strike feats involved. It's really not a bad idea! Mobility would be a good defensive feat for you since it would add 4 AC. I believe you can choose it as a bonus feat at some point as a Monk.
All of that seems correct though. Let's say your Wis mod is 4 and your Dex mod is 4... and you have the necessary Combat Reflexes.
Whilst moving through one square that is threatened by, let's say; a Goblin, then you would provoke the initial AoO. He swings, you get to hit him if you had the Full Panther Style suite. That's attack #1 and subtracts from your total retaliatory attacks(Equal to Wis Mod I believe). Let's say he Misses. Now your Snake Style suite comes into play by letting you attack him yet again, thus using 1 AoO(1 + Dex Mod) out of your total AoO for the round. That's attack #2. Now if either one of those(likely the first one) was a Greater Trip + Vicious Stomp, that means you would immediately get 2 more AoO on that opponent. That is attack #3 and #4, in which you would now be down 2 AoO left. If you used your immediate ability to attack again for landing a hit with Snake Fang, then that is attack #5(swift/immediate used). Then with the thought of a Standard action, you could get attack #6 on them.(combine with Spring Attack!)
All of THAT is correct based off of what YOU are inquiring about, However:
Keep in mind of the Wording of Snake and Panther. You may make an UNARMED STRIKE as opposed to UNARMED ATTACK or ATTACK. I'm still unsure if UNARMED STRIKE means you can literally only do that and no CM, or if that this wording could potentially mean you can sub a CM in for an unarmed strike. That is something you should clear with your DM asap.
Keep in mind, your opponents might get smart, and decide not to take AoO vs you to prevent them from having their world absolutely decimated lol.
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We have a similar potential in our game - same type of monk. As an aside an unarmed strike is an attack to the best of my knowledge, we certainly treat it that way since it is how a monks attacks are referred to in the rules. I was thinking along these lines..
Monk moves out of an opponents threatened area, this means he provokes an AoO. Panther stike applies and you will get a retaliatory strike once he's made his AoO. (NOTE this is not an AoO so far).
1) Your opponent makes his AoO, regardless of whether he hits or misses you resolve you panther strike* now. If you trip with this go to 4). If you don't trip go to 2).
2) If the opponents AoO missed you can now make your AoO (AoO #1) against him for this action from snake style. You need to choose now. Try to trip? Go to 4). No trip go to 3)
3) If you hit with the snake attack make the added attack for the snake fang style as the immediate action (Not an AoO), this could be a trip. You can only do this IF you have Panther Claw since this makes the retaliation a free action rather than swift. You can't do a swift and immediate in the same round.
4) If you make a trip attempt and succeed then greater trip will allow an extra AoO since falling prone is another action that provokes an AoO. So Stomp him (AoO #2), stomp him good
* If you have the Panther Parry feat you would resolve the panther feat before he even rolls his AoO. The only real benefit here is if you trip with this go to 4), snake style is irrelevant and his AoO would most likely never be resolved. If you don't trip then you will get oppoent suffers a -2 penatly to hit, making the likelyhood of 2) onward greater.
Potentially by moving out of an opponent threatened are you could get 4 attacks, 2 of which are AoO (snake, and stomp if you use a trip on the snake immediate attack). The panther is not an AoO and the immediate attack from snake fang is not an AoO either. You could then move another square through his area and he may be daft enough to try again, of course he may have learnt his lesson, or be having a little lie down.
I hope that is not too poorly written and seems to agree with the post above mostly.
Keep in mind, Panther style only gives you a retalitory strike for AoO against you for moving through threatened squares, nothing else. Panther style also requires you to use your swift action. If you pick up Panther Claw, it becomes a free action instead of a swift. Even then, you're limited to a number of retalitory strikes equal to Wis mod. Also keep in the mind that if you use an immeadiate action to make the additional unarmed strike granted by Snake Fang, you cannot use a swift action the next turn.
Now this doesn't cause problem is you have all the feats for both styles, but you didn't specifically say you were going to pick them all up and wanted to make sure you understood what would happen.
Also, where it notes unarmed strike it specifically means unarmed strike as someone noted before. Which means you can't substitute combat maneuvers.
Also, don't expect this to work except one per combat. As a GM I know I wouldn't let it. Even animals aren't that dumb. As soon as you pull this once, everyone on the battlefield will know that you focus on chaining together attacks by having opponents attack you with AoO. Once that happens expect everyone to ignore you and not take AoO against you.
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Combat Reflexes is a prerequisite for both Panther style, and Snake style, I figured that was a gimme. I was wondering more about the way the feats would stack AoO's, not so much if I would require ridiculous amounts of Dexterity and Wisdom to pull it off.
Say for instance, you had Mythic Combat Reflexes, with the ability to make any number of AoO's in one round, just to throw the whole Dex mod out the window, do the feats still stack AoO's the way they are written? Or is there something wrong with the way I am interpreting them?
I don't see why they wouldn't stack. There is nothing against it I can see and the wording for them adds up.
Just please keep in mind the wording of Panther and Snake. "While using Panther Style, you can spend a free action, instead of spending a swift action, to make a retaliatory unarmed strike. You can make a number of retaliatory unarmed strikes on your turn equal to your Wisdom modifier."
"While using the Snake Style feat, when an opponent’s attack misses you, you can make an unarmed strike against that opponent as an attack of opportunity. If this attack of opportunity hits, you can spend an immediate action to make another unarmed strike against the same opponent."
You should clear that up. I don't know what the official is on that. Unarmed Strike may mean literally, an unarmed strike. However, it could mean an Unarmed Attack? /shrug
I had been planning a similar build, but was getting mixed responses on if the panther and snake style bonus attacks could be made into combat maneuvers since it specifically calls out "unarmed strike" for the free attacks.
Also, not sure if unarmed fighter would be as good as say, free hand fighter. If you are going master of many styles, monk weapons don't mean much, and the unarmed fighter can only give you a free style feat, but not the rest of the tree. getting unrestricted feats and general martial weapon proficiency may be a better bet (although if you are using snake and crane style, all the blocking weapons are monk anyway, but tonfa is also a weapon finess-able martial)I also was giving some serious thought to skipping the combat maneuver feats so that I would provoke more often and have people miss into snake style ;-)
Also bear in mind that Snake Style and Snake Fang do not work against combat maneuvers. Snake Style adds to your AC, but not your CMD. And Snake Fang only happens if an attack misses, but combat maneuvers aren't attacks and they don't miss. They either succeed or fail, but don't miss.
Also, since monks don't have full BAB they're actually less likely to successfully resist a maneuver by a full BAB class which isn't as MAD because your opponent will likely have better bonuses to CMB from stats than you do to CMD from your stats.
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Actually they are attacks, but they target CMD, not AC. Hence why any bonus to attack rolls adds to your CMB. IE True Strike and it's +20 insight bonus to the attack roll of the next attack - Which works on CMB. Great for bull rushes. Technically I believe that Panther Style/Claw/Parry would trigger from a CMB attempt vs You(AoO). Now that I'm reading it... Snake Fang would would trigger too...
Someone check up on this? I feel unsure now...
I don't see why people try to reinvent the core of a Monk. I think they're great... better if they weren't so MAD though for sure.
Have fun with the character for me, not gonna get a chance to play my MoMS idea for a while yet, locked in to other characters until a few campaigns finish ;-)
based on this blog post:
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom?Combat-Maneuvers-and-Weapon-Speci al-Features
"Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll."
I THINK unarmed strike counts as a weapon that can be used for trip, sunder, and disarm, so you MAY be able to get away with panther or snake styling a trip. I'm not a rules expert though, so take with a grain of salt.
Actually they are attacks, but they target CMD, not AC. Hence why any bonus to attack rolls adds to your CMB. IE True Strike and it's +20 insight bonus to the attack roll of the next attack - Which works on CMB. Great for bull rushes. Technically I believe that Panther Style/Claw/Parry would trigger from a CMB attempt vs You(AoO). Now that I'm reading it... Snake Fang would would trigger too...
Someone check up on this? I feel unsure now...
I don't see why people try to reinvent the core of a Monk. I think they're great... better if they weren't so MAD though for sure.
They're atatcks in the general sense of the word, but not an attack as in a melee attack or ranged attack. Also, as I stated a combat maneuver still doesn't "miss". It wouldn't be countered by Snake Fang. However, if someone used an AoO and replaced their melee attack with a combat maneuver you could use Panther Style to retalitae because it's still an AoO.
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based on this blog post:
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom?Combat-Maneuvers-and-Weapon-Speci al-Features
"Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll."
I THINK unarmed strike counts as a weapon that can be used for trip, sunder, and disarm, so you MAY be able to get away with panther or snake styling a trip. I'm not a rules expert though, so take with a grain of salt.
That's right. I remember all of that now. I know Improved Unarmed Strike counts, not sure about standard unarmed attacks. Though, you'd be crazy to fight unarmed with anything other than a Monk or Fighter.
Hmm. Damn fuzzy grey lines.
Hmm. Damn fuzzy grey lines.
Agreed. I kinda hope that whenever they put out the "Strategy Guide" next year, it has a bit of clarification on combat maneuvers relation to attacks.
Though, you'd be crazy to fight unarmed with anything other than a Monk or Fighter.
I have a magus with the snake style line, trip feats, vicious stomp, and IUS. Cast Frostbite, Chill Touch, etc. for multiple charged touch attacks, and go to town.
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Though, you'd be crazy to fight unarmed with anything other than a Monk or Fighter.I have a magus with the snake style line, trip feats, vicious stomp, and IUS. Cast Frostbite, Chill Touch, etc. for multiple charged touch attacks, and go to town.
That might count as crazy fun :-)