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I don't know where or what happened but it has been stated that Z was following the 17 year old, which he shouldn't have been but I understand being frustrated with the cops coming 10-15 minutes later and missing a mischief complaint so....then Trayvon disappeared, Z-man went behind a building to look and didn't see him, then while returning to his vehicle Trayvon supposedly jumped him from some bushes and began wrestling.
I don't know who did what and who is right or wrong. Zman is an idiotic moron for allowing it to get that far. Trayvon is an a-hole punk who made some dumb-assed mistakes.
What I don't like is that Zman is being referred to as a man of "White and Hispanic" descent. I want Barak to be referred to as "White and Black" descent along with Halle Berry and numerous others from here on out. Using that descriptor was only for the purpose of stirring up black/white dissent and I find it disgusting.
Referring to a 6' tall 17 year old as a child is also ridiculous. He was far from an innocent child. He was a wannabe dangerous thug trying to be "hard".
I hate that this whole thing became a white vs black thing instead of an overzealous vigilante vs punk thug thing.
But that is not the race politics narrative. Z must be the evil white man to get the race machine running to the other side
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But that is not the race politics narrative. Z must be the evil white man to get the race machine running to the other sideI don't know where or what happened but it has been stated that Z was following the 17 year old, which he shouldn't have been but I understand being frustrated with the cops coming 10-15 minutes later and missing a mischief complaint so....then Trayvon disappeared, Z-man went behind a building to look and didn't see him, then while returning to his vehicle Trayvon supposedly jumped him from some bushes and began wrestling.
I don't know who did what and who is right or wrong. Zman is an idiotic moron for allowing it to get that far. Trayvon is an a-hole punk who made some dumb-assed mistakes.
What I don't like is that Zman is being referred to as a man of "White and Hispanic" descent. I want Barak to be referred to as "White and Black" descent along with Halle Berry and numerous others from here on out. Using that descriptor was only for the purpose of stirring up black/white dissent and I find it disgusting.
Referring to a 6' tall 17 year old as a child is also ridiculous. He was far from an innocent child. He was a wannabe dangerous thug trying to be "hard".
I hate that this whole thing became a white vs black thing instead of an overzealous vigilante vs punk thug thing.
I agree, we are fed what sells papers and stories. We are fed drama so that the peddlers of drama can make a good living and who suffers? Everyone. It's a sh!tty cycle.
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I agree, we are fed what sells papers and stories. We are fed drama so that the peddlers of drama can make a good living and who suffers? Everyone. It's a sh!tty cycle.But that is not the race politics narrative. Z must be the evil white man to get the race machine running to the other sideI don't know where or what happened but it has been stated that Z was following the 17 year old, which he shouldn't have been but I understand being frustrated with the cops coming 10-15 minutes later and missing a mischief complaint so....then Trayvon disappeared, Z-man went behind a building to look and didn't see him, then while returning to his vehicle Trayvon supposedly jumped him from some bushes and began wrestling.
I don't know who did what and who is right or wrong. Zman is an idiotic moron for allowing it to get that far. Trayvon is an a-hole punk who made some dumb-assed mistakes.
What I don't like is that Zman is being referred to as a man of "White and Hispanic" descent. I want Barak to be referred to as "White and Black" descent along with Halle Berry and numerous others from here on out. Using that descriptor was only for the purpose of stirring up black/white dissent and I find it disgusting.
Referring to a 6' tall 17 year old as a child is also ridiculous. He was far from an innocent child. He was a wannabe dangerous thug trying to be "hard".
I hate that this whole thing became a white vs black thing instead of an overzealous vigilante vs punk thug thing.
And is bringing an end to any semblance of justice
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Personally I believe that Zimmerman was in the wrong the moment the police dispatcher told him not to follow. That said, with the way the laws in Florida work, it's difficult to get a murder conviction in these circumstances, and even harder when the majority of the prosecution's witnesses turn into defense witnesses under cross-examination. Personally I think that 'Stand Your Ground' legislation goes too far. There is a big difference between 'Castle Doctrine' and 'Stand Your Ground.'"Stand Your Ground" had nothing to do with the case, other than possibly how the initial investigation was handled.
Zimmerman's lawyer used a standard self-defense argument, not Stand Your Ground.
Sure, he used that, but it's still bs. Tailing someone who isn't actually a threat to you, then chasing after him when he runs, is NOT self defense. The only way it could possibly be justified is with Florida's horrible Stand Your Ground law. If he had stayed within the bounds of "trying to defend himself," he would've stayed the F away and never would have felt "in fear for his safety" at all.
Stand Your Ground means that as long as you make sure to murder all the witnesses, it's your word against nobody's, so you walk free. This case also demonstrated that just to be sure, you can give yourself a black eye or bruising to "prove" that there were "signs of a struggle." Not saying there wasn't one here, but the fact that they saw his injuries, he said, "Trayvon did it," and they just believed the killer...just...wtf?
I rather liked this CNN opinion article, What About Martin's Right to 'stand his ground'?. Zimmerman is justified to shoot and kill him because he felt endangered, but yet Martin gets disparaged when he's not even alive to defend his actions for being a "thug" and assaulting Zimmerman. The hypocrisy is freaking unbelievable.
Zimmerman got off for a lot of reasons, but major ones include no other living witnesses and the local police being extremely uncooperative and helpful, from the chief outright saying he doesn't think Zimmerman should go to jail to their mishandling of the evidence and not actually charging Zimmerman until a nation wide protest forced them to. Usually, the police aren't so blatantly antagonistic of the prosecution.
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The "jumped him from some bushes" part comes only from Z's testimony. And is contradicted by there not being an bushes near where the confrontation took place. And Martin was still on the phone to Jeantel when he was supposedly hiding in the non-existent bushes preparing to jump Zimmerman.I don't know where or what happened but it has been stated that Z was following the 17 year old, which he shouldn't have been but I understand being frustrated with the cops coming 10-15 minutes later and missing a mischief complaint so....then Trayvon disappeared, Z-man went behind a building to look and didn't see him, then while returning to his vehicle Trayvon supposedly jumped him from some bushes and began wrestling.
I don't know who did what and who is right or wrong. Zman is an idiotic moron for allowing it to get that far. Trayvon is an a-hole punk who made some dumb-assed mistakes.
What I don't like is that Zman is being referred to as a man of "White and Hispanic" descent. I want Barak to be referred to as "White and Black" descent along with Halle Berry and numerous others from here on out. Using that descriptor was only for the purpose of stirring up black/white dissent and I find it disgusting.
Referring to a 6' tall 17 year old as a child is also ridiculous. He was far from an innocent child. He was a wannabe dangerous thug trying to be "hard".
I hate that this whole thing became a white vs black thing instead of an overzealous vigilante vs punk thug thing.
Yes there are tons of inconsistencies when we get an adrenaline induced story that there is only one side to.
I saw a car accident 10 years back that I swore there was 2 people in the one car and I was totally wrong. Wrong to the point that other witnesses saw different and I looked like an idiot. It happens when something scary/exciting/weird happens.That is why the police want as many witnesses to things as possible. Me stating that something was said in the trial is not me agreeing with anything on either side.
Congratulations, he took a stupid photo. Clearly he deserved to be stalked and shot?It speaks of media bias. not that you care. you only want him guilty, so you are ok with it it seems
I don't want him to be guilty. I;d much rather he hadn't followed a teen and shot him, honestly. But given the evidence, I certainly believe was guilty.
I don't like media bias, but I'm also not aware of the media putting up images of George Zimmerman doing anything like that.
You might also find this link somewhat interesting, regarding the image you posted...and it apparently being wrong.
It was claimed back in the day that that photo came from Stormfront.
Why am I not surprised that Citizen R. finds Nazi propaganda funny?
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It was claimed back in the day that that photo came from Stormfront.
Why am I not surprised that Citizen R. finds Nazi propaganda funny?
i find a reply to propaganda funny even if it is propaganda itself.
If trayvon were white it would be the same to me
Just to help, this seems to the article it originated from...and the apology when it was found to be wrong
The moment he started stalking Trayvon is the moment he became the aggressor.
Obviously, the mothers thought the darkie was more of a danger to society than the failure cop. Now their precious snowflakes won't have to be scared of the evil darkie-thug-hoodie-wearer!
There aren't enough words in the English language to convey my disgust at the verdict and hate of the circumstances. I'd lapse into some Spanish for good measure but someone might shoot me for speaking in tongues/'PLOTTIN' IN BEANER SPEAK 'GAINST AMURRKINS'.
Except it had nothing to do with race, other than martin telling his friend on the phone a "cracker" was following him. The racism is on the other side here bud. It had to do with someone of a race he did not even know wearing a hood walking across lawns and seemed to be looking in windows to a neighborhood watcher
And your own racism is telling
At the risk of degenerating into intarwebtaration, O RLY?
Given the amount of falsehoods issued by the defendant in the case, the claims of malfeasance in observation highly debatable, at best, to outright questionable at worst. Are you going to, with a straight face no less, claim that the victim's descriptor of his stalking pursuant as a Saltine-American is a counter-balance to 'these f@%#ing a~@@*%%s always get away'? Are you seriously attempting to tell me, absent of all disingenuous intent, that the fact that the deceased, by your own words, was
someone of a race he did not even know wearing a hood
is a case of racism being on the OTHER foot?
I do not grasp how you could not be undergoing cognitive dissonance over the blatant contradiction. And, in case you've not gleaned this from my numerous posts across the boards, I have no qualms about people being racist, if they own it adn admit to it. Calling me racist is liable to call on you to prove it by means other than logical fallacy or personalize persecution complex. Call me out on whom I'm prejudiced, nay, racist against. Heavens knows my grandmother was one of the most racist people I ever met, bless her heart, and she was High Yellow, as the vernacular goes. I fall into the niche of 'Red Bone', am something of a traveled polyglot, and tend to love and hate all races equally, my bigotry firmly in the vein of anti-anti-intellectualism. If you've the stones to do so, I will gladly take you on, because unlike many who knee-jerk in fear of capitulation at the label, I will make you prove your argument.
Put up or shut up.
Also, Zimmerman was a wannabe cop who acted outside of his authority as a self-proclaimed neighborhood watchman.
It was claimed back in the day that that photo came from Stormfront.
Why am I not surprised that Citizen R. finds Nazi propaganda funny?
i find a reply to propaganda funny even if it is propaganda itself.
If trayvon were white it would be the same to me
If any unarmed teen was gunned down, it would be a tragedy. There does, however, seem to be evidence that Trayvor was shot for being a black kid in a white, gated community. It's impossible to prove, of course. But there is evidence.
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It was claimed back in the day that that photo came from Stormfront.
Why am I not surprised that Citizen R. finds Nazi propaganda funny?
i find a reply to propaganda funny even if it is propaganda itself.
If trayvon were white it would be the same to me
And there you go. Circulating a photo of the wrong person is funny and is an evenhanded response to the "liberal bias" in the media that printed a year-old picture of Martin.
For the curious, this is the last known picture of Trayvor alive.
EDIT: For clarity, he is the tall person on the right, and I should point out that it is claimed to be the last photo. This may be wrong, but it was taken nine days before he was shot.
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The moment he started stalking Trayvon is the moment he became the aggressor.
Obviously, the mothers thought the darkie was more of a danger to society than the failure cop. Now their precious snowflakes won't have to be scared of the evil darkie-thug-hoodie-wearer!
There aren't enough words in the English language to convey my disgust at the verdict and hate of the circumstances. I'd lapse into some Spanish for good measure but someone might shoot me for speaking in tongues/'PLOTTIN' IN BEANER SPEAK 'GAINST AMURRKINS'.
Except it had nothing to do with race, other than martin telling his friend on the phone a "cracker" was following him. The racism is on the other side here bud. It had to do with someone of a race he did not even know wearing a hood walking across lawns and seemed to be looking in windows to a neighborhood watcher
And your own racism is telling
At the risk of degenerating into intarwebtaration, O RLY?
Given the amount of falsehoods issued by the defendant in the case, the claims of malfeasance in observation highly debatable, at best, to outright questionable at worst. Are you going to, with a straight face no less, claim that the victim's descriptor of his stalking pursuant as a Saltine-American is a counter-balance to 'these f@*!ing a!+#++&s always get away'? Are you seriously attempting to tell me, absent of all disingenuous intent, that the fact that the deceased, by your own words, was
someone of a race he did not even know wearing a hoodis a case of racism being on the OTHER foot?
I do not grasp how you could not be undergoing cognitive dissonance over the blatant contradiction. And, in case you've not gleaned this from my numerous posts across the boards, I have no qualms about people being racist, if they own it adn admit to it. Calling me racist is liable to call on you to prove it by means other than logical fallacy or personalize persecution complex. Call me out on...
Again, are you basing your opinion on watching and listening to the entire trial or did you not watch the entire trial and are basing your opinion on media influence and personal bias?
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It was claimed back in the day that that photo came from Stormfront.
Why am I not surprised that Citizen R. finds Nazi propaganda funny?
i find a reply to propaganda funny even if it is propaganda itself.
If trayvon were white it would be the same to meAnd there you go. Circulating a photo of the wrong person is funny and is an evenhanded response to the "liberal bias" in the media that printed a year-old picture of Martin.
The media attempting to paint him as the little kid while showing Z as the evil man in a prison suit. You know instead of staying unbiased and waiting for results they chose the reality they wanted and ran with it
The media circulated a picture that was a few months old. In response, others circulated a picture that was of another person entirely. That is not a good example of the media being biased.
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The moment he started stalking Trayvon is the moment he became the aggressor.
Obviously, the mothers thought the darkie was more of a danger to society than the failure cop. Now their precious snowflakes won't have to be scared of the evil darkie-thug-hoodie-wearer!
There aren't enough words in the English language to convey my disgust at the verdict and hate of the circumstances. I'd lapse into some Spanish for good measure but someone might shoot me for speaking in tongues/'PLOTTIN' IN BEANER SPEAK 'GAINST AMURRKINS'.
Except it had nothing to do with race, other than martin telling his friend on the phone a "cracker" was following him. The racism is on the other side here bud. It had to do with someone of a race he did not even know wearing a hood walking across lawns and seemed to be looking in windows to a neighborhood watcher
And your own racism is telling
At the risk of degenerating into intarwebtaration, O RLY?
Given the amount of falsehoods issued by the defendant in the case, the claims of malfeasance in observation highly debatable, at best, to outright questionable at worst. Are you going to, with a straight face no less, claim that the victim's descriptor of his stalking pursuant as a Saltine-American is a counter-balance to 'these f&&&ing a%~@$!#s always get away'? Are you seriously attempting to tell me, absent of all disingenuous intent, that the fact that the deceased, by your own words, was
someone of a race he did not even know wearing a hoodis a case of racism being on the OTHER foot?
I do not grasp how you could not be undergoing cognitive dissonance over the blatant contradiction. And, in case you've not gleaned this from my numerous posts across the boards, I have no qualms about people being racist, if they own it adn admit to it. Calling me racist is liable to call on you to prove it by means other than logical fallacy or personalize persecution complex. Call me out on...
You mean him saying "these punks" which has no race factor at all. he is refering to criminals i believe, who if fact often do get away. I do not recall anything before the violence of Z describing him as black or calling him anything but a punk. And im calling you racist if nothing else for your comments about "i would use spanish but i'd be attacked over it" that attitude is an assumption about others (easily presumed that you are refering to whites) that is racist.
Florida law that is relevant to the issue:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
Unless you believe that Zimmerman was on top of Martin attacking him Face to Fist style (a la Wimp Lo) until he decided to shoot him (i.e. Martin was the one screaming on the tape, despite all physical evidence that he was putting a buttwhooping on Zimmerman).
Ultimately it doesn't matter legally if Zimmerman chased him down, attacked him first, if he ended up being a position that he couldn't escape from and the other person was escalating the violence to the point where Zimmerman felt he was in danger of death or great bodily harm.
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The media attempting to paint him as the little kid while showing Z as the evil man in a prison suit. You know instead of staying unbiased and waiting for results they chose the reality they wanted and ran with itIt was claimed back in the day that that photo came from Stormfront.
Why am I not surprised that Citizen R. finds Nazi propaganda funny?
i find a reply to propaganda funny even if it is propaganda itself.
If trayvon were white it would be the same to meAnd there you go. Circulating a photo of the wrong person is funny and is an evenhanded response to the "liberal bias" in the media that printed a year-old picture of Martin.
So, the entire thread once again calls you out on your bs, and your response is, "b-but... the media...librals...E-leet... wah wah wah!"
Even if "the media" did as you said, that doesn't make you any less guilty of being a liar. You posted a pic that was NOT Trayvon to make him look bigger and scarier than he actually was. You're full of s**t.
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For the curious, this is the last known picture of Trayvor alive.
EDIT: For clarity, he is the tall person on the right, and I should point out that it is claimed to be the last photo. This may be wrong, but it was taken nine days before he was shot.
And it would be more accurate than one that seems hand picked to make him seem as much a tiny child as they could, not the size and stature of a grown man that could have been a physical threat. Please do not pretend you do not see what they were doing.
I find it funny someone claiming they'd be attacked if they used Spanish, considering Zimmerman's ethnic background. Someone might get attacked for using Spanish, but not by the people the implication was for.
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The media attempting to paint him as the little kid while showing Z as the evil man in a prison suit. You know instead of staying unbiased and waiting for results they chose the reality they wanted and ran with itIt was claimed back in the day that that photo came from Stormfront.
Why am I not surprised that Citizen R. finds Nazi propaganda funny?
i find a reply to propaganda funny even if it is propaganda itself.
If trayvon were white it would be the same to meAnd there you go. Circulating a photo of the wrong person is funny and is an evenhanded response to the "liberal bias" in the media that printed a year-old picture of Martin.
So, the entire thread once again calls you out on your bs, and your response is, "b-but... the media...librals...E-leet... wah wah wah!"
Even if "the media" did as you said, that doesn't make you any less guilty of being a liar. You posted a pic that was NOT Trayvon to make him look bigger and scarier than he actually was. You're full of s**t.
Actually i linked a page pointing out the hypocrisy of using pictures to paint how you want people to be seen. and it has nothing to do with liberal or consevative ALL media bias is wrong and an insult to what journalism was meant to be.
So, the entire thread once again calls you out on your bs, and your response is, "b-but... the media...librals...E-leet... wah wah wah!"
Even if "the media" did as you said, that doesn't make you any less guilty of being a liar. You posted a pic that was NOT Trayvon to make him look bigger and scarier than he actually was. You're full of s**t.
In Citizen R.'s defense, he would have had to have known the picture was a fake for him to be a liar.
You mean him saying "these punks" which has no race factor at all. he is refering to criminals i believe, who if fact often do get away. I do not recall anything before the violence of Z describing him as black or calling him anything but a punk. And im calling you racist if nothing else for your comments about "i would use spanish but i'd be attacked over it" that attitude is an assumption about others (easily presumed that you are refering to whites) that is racist.
The transcript of his phone call to the police clearly states he knew Trayvor was black.
And it would be more accurate than one that seems hand picked to make him seem as much a tiny child as they could, not the size and stature of a grown man that could have been a physical threat. Please do not pretend you do not see what they were doing.
I do, but they used a genuine photo less than a year old of him. The photo of Zimmerman is a real one too. Using a fake one to try and make it appear than Trayvon was some kind of gang banger isn't bias in your eyes?
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Florida law that is relevant to the issue:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.Unless you believe that Zimmerman was on top of Martin attacking him Face to Fist style (a la Wimp Lo) until he decided to shoot him (i.e. Martin was the one screaming on the tape, despite all physical evidence that he was putting a buttwhooping on Zimmerman).
Ultimately it doesn't matter legally if Zimmerman chased him down, attacked him first, if he ended up being a position that he couldn't escape from and the other person was escalating the violence to the point where Zimmerman felt he was in danger of death or great bodily harm.
this case ceased being about facts long ago
...The moment he started stalking Trayvon is the moment he became the aggressor.
Obviously, the mothers thought the darkie was more of a danger to society than the failure cop. Now their precious snowflakes won't have to be scared of the evil darkie-thug-hoodie-wearer!
There aren't enough words in the English language to convey my disgust at the verdict and hate of the circumstances. I'd lapse into some Spanish for good measure but someone might shoot me for speaking in tongues/'PLOTTIN' IN BEANER SPEAK 'GAINST AMURRKINS'.
Except it had nothing to do with race, other than martin telling his friend on the phone a "cracker" was following him. The racism is on the other side here bud. It had to do with someone of a race he did not even know wearing a hood walking across lawns and seemed to be looking in windows to a neighborhood watcher
And your own racism is telling
At the risk of degenerating into intarwebtaration, O RLY?
Given the amount of falsehoods issued by the defendant in the case, the claims of malfeasance in observation highly debatable, at best, to outright questionable at worst. Are you going to, with a straight face no less, claim that the victim's descriptor of his stalking pursuant as a Saltine-American is a counter-balance to 'these f&&&ing a%~@$!#s always get away'? Are you seriously attempting to tell me, absent of all disingenuous intent, that the fact that the deceased, by your own words, was
someone of a race he did not even know wearing a hoodis a case of racism being on the OTHER foot?
I do not grasp how you could not be undergoing cognitive dissonance over the blatant contradiction. And, in case you've not gleaned this from my numerous posts across the boards, I have no qualms about people being racist, if they own it adn admit to it. Calling me racist is liable to call on you to prove it by means other than logical fallacy or personalize
Of cause the repeated calling of the police about young black males in the community, believing them responsible for crimes, based upon absolutely no evidence is not relevant at all is it Andrew. Here
Zimmerman lived in a fantasy land, built upon join stereotyping of young people and black people.
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You mean him saying "these punks" which has no race factor at all. he is refering to criminals i believe, who if fact often do get away. I do not recall anything before the violence of Z describing him as black or calling him anything but a punk. And im calling you racist if nothing else for your comments about "i would use spanish but i'd be attacked over it" that attitude is an assumption about others (easily presumed that you are refering to whites) that is racist.The transcript of his phone call to the police clearly states he knew Trayvor was black.
And it would be more accurate than one that seems hand picked to make him seem as much a tiny child as they could, not the size and stature of a grown man that could have been a physical threat. Please do not pretend you do not see what they were doing.I do, but they used a genuine photo less than a year old of him. The photo of Zimmerman is a real one too. Using a fake one to try and make it appear than Trayvon was some kind of gang banger isn't bias in your eyes?
It is bais indeed when someone claimed it WAS him. What i linked was more about pointing out the hypocrisy of the portrayal of the "criminal" zimmerman and the "innocent little kid" martin instead of 2 neutral picture of who they really were
It is bais indeed when someone claimed it WAS him. What i linked was more about pointing out the hypocrisy of the portrayal of the "criminal" zimmerman and the "innocent little kid" martin instead of 2 neutral picture of who they really were
Then, perhaps, you should have explained that...rather than making it appear that you believed it to be a genuine photo?
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...The moment he started stalking Trayvon is the moment he became the aggressor.
Obviously, the mothers thought the darkie was more of a danger to society than the failure cop. Now their precious snowflakes won't have to be scared of the evil darkie-thug-hoodie-wearer!
There aren't enough words in the English language to convey my disgust at the verdict and hate of the circumstances. I'd lapse into some Spanish for good measure but someone might shoot me for speaking in tongues/'PLOTTIN' IN BEANER SPEAK 'GAINST AMURRKINS'.
Except it had nothing to do with race, other than martin telling his friend on the phone a "cracker" was following him. The racism is on the other side here bud. It had to do with someone of a race he did not even know wearing a hood walking across lawns and seemed to be looking in windows to a neighborhood watcher
And your own racism is telling
At the risk of degenerating into intarwebtaration, O RLY?
Given the amount of falsehoods issued by the defendant in the case, the claims of malfeasance in observation highly debatable, at best, to outright questionable at worst. Are you going to, with a straight face no less, claim that the victim's descriptor of his stalking pursuant as a Saltine-American is a counter-balance to 'these f&&&ing a%~@$!#s always get away'? Are you seriously attempting to tell me, absent of all disingenuous intent, that the fact that the deceased, by your own words, was
someone of a race he did not even know wearing a hoodis a case of racism being on the OTHER foot?
I do not grasp how you could not be undergoing cognitive dissonance over the blatant contradiction. And, in case you've not gleaned this from my numerous posts across the boards, I have no qualms about people being racist, if they own it adn admit to it. Calling me racist is liable to call on you to prove it by means other than logical
Or young black folks were maybe actually sometimes commiting crimes or having suspiscious behavour and he was trying to be a good watchman. nah, you have already judged and convicted him a racist. Not that he isn't, we do not know.
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It is bais indeed when someone claimed it WAS him. What i linked was more about pointing out the hypocrisy of the portrayal of the "criminal" zimmerman and the "innocent little kid" martin instead of 2 neutral picture of who they really wereThen, perhaps, you should have explained that...rather than making it appear that you believed it to be a genuine photo?
I just said it was funny. sorry i did not spell out to you why it was funny
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Florida law that is relevant to the issue:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.Unless you believe that Zimmerman was on top of Martin attacking him Face to Fist style (a la Wimp Lo) until he decided to shoot him (i.e. Martin was the one screaming on the tape, despite all physical evidence that he was putting a buttwhooping on Zimmerman).
Ultimately it doesn't matter legally if Zimmerman chased him down, attacked him first, if he ended up being a position that he couldn't escape from and the other person was escalating the violence to the point where Zimmerman felt he was in danger of death or great bodily harm.
If Zimmerman attacked first, then he falls under section (1) committing a forcible felony. (Assault/battery).
Subsection (a), which you bolded, applies to Section (2) Initially provoked the use of force against himself.Clearer example: If you break into and are robbing a house (Committing a forcible felony) and the owner returns home and shoots at you from the only door,(...
Sadly in some states i bet you can.
Or young black folks were maybe actually sometimes commiting crimes or having suspiscious behavour and he was trying to be a good watchman. nah, you have already judged and convicted him a racist. Not that he isn't, we do not know.
When someone calls the police 46 times about black people, in a primarily white gated community, it does seem...unlikely that there is no bias, especially since, again, I have been unable to find any evidence suggesting any of those phone calls resulted in so much as a caution. It's possible,. of course, that it could happen. Just...unlikely.
Of course, there is no evidence of any wrong doing on Trayvor's part before Zimmerman called the police regarding him. Which doesn't help his case.
Or young black folks were maybe actually sometimes commiting crimes or having suspiscious behavour and he was trying to be a good watchman. nah, you have already judged and convicted him a racist. Not that he isn't, we do not know.
Save that:
1. There is ZERO evidence that in any of these cases they where engaged in criminality.
2. The documented grounds for his suspicion of these individuals is 'thin' at best.
3. There does not seem to be an equal, or even vaguely close number of white or Hispanic people being reported to the police on equally thin grounds.
4. the tendency towards out group aggression in humans.
There is atleast some good reason to suspect that race played a part in this.
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Or young black folks were maybe actually sometimes commiting crimes or having suspiscious behavour and he was trying to be a good watchman. nah, you have already judged and convicted him a racist. Not that he isn't, we do not know.Save that:
1. There is ZERO evidence that in any of these cases they where engaged in criminality.
2. The documented grounds for his suspicion of these individuals is 'thin' at best.
3. There does not seem to be an equal, or even vaguely close number of white or Hispanic people being reported to the police on equally thin grounds.
4. the tendency towards out group aggression in humans.
There is atleast some good reason to suspect that race played a part in this.
You are free to suspect but do not pretend it is fact
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Believe whatever you want. If you can't support it with actual laws, I'm going to ignore it.Sadly in some states i bet you can.Zimmerman attacked first, then he falls under section (1) committing a forcible felony. (Assault/battery).
Subsection (a), which you bolded, applies to Section (2) Initially provoked the use of force against himself.Clearer example: If you break into and are robbing a house (Committing a forcible felony) and the owner returns home and shoots at you from the only door,( reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant) you still don't get to shoot him and claim self defense.
With crap i have heard about criminals suing after a slip and fall and whatnot nothing surprises me anyore
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Florida law that is relevant to the issue:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.Unless you believe that Zimmerman was on top of Martin attacking him Face to Fist style (a la Wimp Lo) until he decided to shoot him (i.e. Martin was the one screaming on the tape, despite all physical evidence that he was putting a buttwhooping on Zimmerman).
Ultimately it doesn't matter legally if Zimmerman chased him down, attacked him first, if he ended up being a position that he couldn't escape from and the other person was escalating the violence to the point where Zimmerman felt he was in danger of death or great bodily harm.
I might be reading this wrong, but I don't think this applies as Zimmerman's defense was based on the "fact" that he was not the aggressor.
You are free to suspect but do not pretend it is factOr young black folks were maybe actually sometimes commiting crimes or having suspiscious behavour and he was trying to be a good watchman. nah, you have already judged and convicted him a racist. Not that he isn't, we do not know.Save that:
1. There is ZERO evidence that in any of these cases they where engaged in criminality.
2. The documented grounds for his suspicion of these individuals is 'thin' at best.
3. There does not seem to be an equal, or even vaguely close number of white or Hispanic people being reported to the police on equally thin grounds.
4. the tendency towards out group aggression in humans.
There is atleast some good reason to suspect that race played a part in this.
I make no claim of fact, only reasonable grounds for belief.
What I find fascinating, is your inability to accept that there is A,a clear racial element to the death (to the point where you have tried to claim that in fact the only racism must have come from trayvon) and B, you complete in ability to come to terms with the FACT that Zimmermans ill advised actions, which he knowingly undertook counter to advice from law enforcement, lead to the death of a young man. A young man, he later accused of having ambushed him in a physically impossible manner.
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Or young black folks were maybe actually sometimes commiting crimes or having suspiscious behavour and he was trying to be a good watchman. nah, you have already judged and convicted him a racist. Not that he isn't, we do not know.Save that:
1. There is ZERO evidence that in any of these cases they where engaged in criminality.
2. The documented grounds for his suspicion of these individuals is 'thin' at best.
3. There does not seem to be an equal, or even vaguely close number of white or Hispanic people being reported to the police on equally thin grounds.
4. the tendency towards out group aggression in humans.
There is atleast some good reason to suspect that race played a part in this.
You are free to suspect but do not pretend it is fact
Where have I done so.
What I find fascinating, is your inability to accept that there is A,a clear racial element to the death (to the point where you have tried to claim that in fact the only racism must have come from trayvon) and B, you complete in ability to come to terms with the FACT that Zimmermans ill advised actions, which he knowingly undertook counter to advice from law enforcement, lead to the death of a young man. A young man, he later accused of having ambushed him in a physically impossible manner.
Race is not clearly anything here
That he followed was a fact. Who initiated violence is not a known fact.The only thing i have claimed from the start is that the facts largely CANNOT be known and that portrayals of both sides are skewed. You have set out right off to portray Z as racist, i have said you cannot prove it so why say it? Might be, could be, but why say he IS when you cannot know it to be fact?
And i said we only have proof of one of them mentioning race, using a racist term in fact.
I might be reading this wrong, but I don't think this applies as Zimmerman's defense was based on the "fact" that he was not the aggressor.Florida law that is relevant to the issue:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.Unless you believe that Zimmerman was on top of Martin attacking him Face to Fist style (a la Wimp Lo) until he decided to shoot him (i.e. Martin was the one screaming on the tape, despite all physical evidence that he was putting a buttwhooping on Zimmerman).
Ultimately it doesn't matter legally if Zimmerman chased him down, attacked him first, if he ended up being a position that he couldn't escape from and the other person was escalating the violence to the point where Zimmerman felt he was in danger of death or great bodily harm.
I agree, but many people believe he was in fact the aggressor. My point is, that it doesn't matter if he was or not. If at the point when the 911 call, that recorded the shot, occurred and Martin was on top of Zimmerman (so Zimmerman couldn't escape) giving him a whooping (which all physical evidence supports)and Zimmerman is crying out for help like a little girl (while not proven, is the only logical conclusion if Zimmerman was getting his buttwhooped), then at that point Zimmerman would have been justified in the use of deadly force.
Or young black folks were maybe actually sometimes commiting crimes or having suspiscious behavour and he was trying to be a good watchman. nah, you have already judged and convicted him a racist. Not that he isn't, we do not know.Save that:
1. There is ZERO evidence that in any of these cases they where engaged in criminality.
2. The documented grounds for his suspicion of these individuals is 'thin' at best.
3. There does not seem to be an equal, or even vaguely close number of white or Hispanic people being reported to the police on equally thin grounds.
4. the tendency towards out group aggression in humans.
There is atleast some good reason to suspect that race played a part in this.
You are free to suspect but do not pretend it is fact
Where have I done so.
What I find fascinating, is your inability to accept that there is A,a clear racial element to the death (to the point where you have tried to claim that in fact the only racism must have come from trayvon) and B, you complete in ability to come to terms with the FACT that Zimmermans ill advised actions, which he knowingly undertook counter to advice from law enforcement, lead to the death of a young man. A young man, he later accused of having ambushed him in a physically impossible manner.
Race is not clearly anything here
That he followed was a fact. Who initiated violence is not a known fact.
The only thing i have claimed from the start is that the facts largely CANNOT be known and that portrayals of both sides are skewed. You have set out right off to portray Z as racist, i have said you cannot prove it so why say it? Might be, could be, but why say he IS when you cannot know it to be fact?And i said we only have proof of one of them mentioning race, using a racist term in fact.
You do understand that a recurrent pattern of potentially racist behavior is far more worrying, the language a 17 year old male us to friends at a time of stress, when they need to re-enforce there own self and public image, to maintain confidence right?
And yes, race is clearly part of this. At the very least because of:
A, cultural narrative.
B, evidence of profiling/prejudice in Zimmermans
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OK, so if you live in a gated community that is primarily white and you see a black kid walking around after dark, and have community knowledge of crimes being committed within the community, you have no right to be a bit suspicious? I thought that the idea of a Gated Community was that only residents of the community would be within the community. If he wasn't a resident he is suspicious, regardless of his color. Him being black in a primarily white, gated community would absolutely make me suspicious if I didn't recognize him as one of the people of the neighborhood.
Is it profiling? Not really, it is more of seeing a nail in with a box of screws....it just sticks out and alerts you to something being up.
Is it racist? Not really, a gated community is there to help filter out the riff-raff and keep said community safe. What would be racist would be if the night before Z-man saw a 17 year old white dude walking through peoples' yards in the dark and said "Oh ok, he's white so he isn't stealin' nuthin'. I'll let him carry on."
If his forcible felony provokes force, then it falls under 2, if it is a forcible felony that doesn't provoke force, then it falls under 1. Attacking someone provokes force, ergo it falls under 2. What do you think provoking force would entail, legally, that wouldn't also fall under 1?