TLDR; 2 characters die, both their equipment goes into the sea.
My group is running with 5, but generally only 4 show up. So what I've done is I just divide 'party gold' by 4, and give that out to all 5 people, in effect giving the party an extra 25% gold. This has worked pretty well, as only twice we've had all 5 people show up.
During the haunts in the Foxglove Manor, I had one person coup de grace himself (it was a universal haunt so it wasn't assigned to anyone)...
Doing the math out for him in particular to be target and fail the haunt... 25% chance it was him, he had a +3 perception, rolled a 21 to see the dagger, went over and picked it up, slammed himself for 8 damage (max), but had zero STR bonus... then failed his fort save. Dead. He was a caster, so the group distributed most of his items to Sorc... who then fell to the Burning Inferno... this one did specifically target him. He slams out the window, weather vane misses (by 1), he fails reflex and climb checks (he rolled below a 3 for each). Dead... with BOTH characters items on him.
TLDR; 2 characters die, both their equipment goes into the sea.
Normally, when I bring in new characters, they start with zero items (especially since I am already giving the party 25% more gold already). I just can't justify starting them out with whatever the recommended level of gold is on a brand new character, when their gear is NORMALLY still in the group... however in this case, it seems most of it is lost.
Then the two remaining characters just sold all of the stuff they couldn't use (no one actually could use it regardless if anyone died or not), and split the pot between them. This irritated someone coming in fresh because they feel like they're being short shafted twice (losing a character, AND no items). Which to the characters still alive, they have no idea that 2 new party members are going to join the RP wise. But then the flip side is "why would a level 6 cleric be joining an adventuring party with absolutely nothing?".
One of the alive party members is being a thorn in my side, because OOC he is agreeing that they are coming in under geared and should be given gear (then he wants me to take it away if it makes them too strong) - but then goes ahead and sells all the items, splitting the money 2 ways and reaping the benefit... just rubbing salt in the wounds of the players creating their new characters.
How would you guys handle this? These are the first deaths (there hasn't really even been a close call yet!), a person has gone down in a fight, but between the witch, inquisitor and paladin, we have plenty of heals.
As a DM, I don't want to see people upset. These are my RL friends, not just some group I put together out of the blue. But at the same time, I just don't want to hand over gear making them a stronger group (in my eyes, almost like a reward) because someone died. I don't want every fight to be a challenge, but I also don't want everything to be a complete walk in the park either. Unfortuntely for the group, the sword/board warrior was not there and he has a TON of gear (by design of the group, since he's the meat shield)... ring of protection +1, amulet natural armor +1, Breastplate +1, longsword +1, ring of force shield (the one that makes a shield), and roughly 6k gold.
Thoughts, suggestions?
The way the party did loot before was items were items, congrats if you got one, and the gold pool was split evenly. Should I instead implement a total sum value of items gained, giving more gold to players who didn't receive items?
Also another quick question - does anyone know of a breakdown of items/gold received for each section? I would like to know the exact number just so I can keep track. I have one guy who is constantly reminding me that they don't have the 'recommended' level of gold for a level 6 character.
Figure out the average value of the remaining characters equipment/treasure/gold, and let the new characters start with that much gold. Honestly, if you screw the players on that by giving them less, that only increases the chances that they will die again.
Tell the whiner "too bad, this is my game and you didn't find all the treasure."
Let the new players start with maximum gold for generating a new character. Given that any spellcasters won't need to have written in their spellbook, they don't need worry about the lack of gold as much.
And dead bodies float. If the group wants to try and find the corpse of their buddy? Let them. They might even find something.
Alternative, this would be an interesting hook for the new players - they find the body and his journal no one knew he was keeping. They decide to investigate and meet up with his companions.
Ok, revising my previous statement a bit. Have them start with 75% of the average wealth of the remaining characters. Spaced the part about you giving them 25% more gold.
Tangent101 wrote:
And dead bodies float. If the group wants to try and find the corpse of their buddy? Let them. They might even find something.
It was a 300' drop below into what I would consider somewhat a rough sea and impossible to land coastline (pure cliffs). I don't think getting the body will be an option.
Mark Aksel wrote: Tangent101 wrote:
And dead bodies float. If the group wants to try and find the corpse of their buddy? Let them. They might even find something.
It was a 300' drop below into what I would consider somewhat a rough sea and impossible to land coastline (pure cliffs). I don't think getting the body will be an option.
Tangent's alternative suggestion could be possible though. The body could wash ashore up/down the coast.
Ivan Rûski wrote: Ok, revising my previous statement a bit. Have them start with 75% of the average wealth of the remaining characters. Spaced the part about you giving them 25% more gold. I would need to figure that out - but it will be quite high. I know they currently have about 15k in gold between the 3 of them.
The warrior is wearing roughly 16165 worth of gear. Thats already 30k, plus another ~10k for the other items. Means I'm starting them off with 10k gold. Bringing another 20k into the party.
Well, wealth by level per character for level 6 is 16K, so take that as you will.
My party just did Foxglove (we are preparing to leave for Magnimar now) and the total wealth is:
Gold Total: 28,561gp 5sp 4cp (9,520 per person)(Previous to Sanatorium)
Sanatorium: 3,724gp 4sp / 3 = per person
Manor: 9,735gp 6sp / 4 = per person
Party Loot: (8) Potion of CLW, (12) Potion of CMW, Potion of Gaseous Form, (60) Arrows, (2) Ring of Protection +1, Masterwork Thieves Tools, Masterwork Flute, (2) Cloak of Resistance +1, (3) Arrows +1, (2) Masterwork Pair of Manacles, Sihedron Medallion, Ring of Force Shield (Sihedron Rune), Jade Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Leather Armor +1, Iesha’s Scarf (100gp), Adamantine Longsword, Hat of Disguise, Ring of Jumping, Chime of Opening (5), Various Books, (2) Keys: 1 Iron, 1 Bronze, Scrolls (Burning Hands, Flaming Sphere, Comprehend Languages, Minor Image, See Invisibility, Sleep, Whispering Wind, Lightning Bolt, Keen Edge), Wands: Shocking Grasp (28), Produce Flame (34), Tree Shape (4), Shield (9), Silent Image (5), Magic Missile (38), Gentle Repose (17), Wand of False Life (29), Wand of Identify (15)
Now that is with liquidating all the mundane weapons and what not, finding everything, and selling off any magic items that weren't getting used (though the group did destroy some things they deemed evil.
That gives you a rough idea, but I would say you are looking at about 12k per character in character wealth at this point, which if they are 6, is about 4k below average wealth, but also very reasonable considering they have been in a small town thus far. I think giving them the 10k each mentioned or even 8 would not be out of line, but limit them to the same amount of value per item that everyone else has had (no +2s, not likely to have seen in medium tier wondrous items, and a 1250 per item limit, I believe)
Hope that helps, my party's record keeper is pretty good.
Heofthehills - thanks a lot for that! extremely helpful!!!
Does one of your party members have the trait that allows to sell items for 60% instead of 50%?
In your eyes, if you give a +1 (whatever) to the group, so you give them that value as their total gold, or just the sell price? I can make arguments for either.
Mark Aksel wrote: In your eyes, if you give a +1 (whatever) to the group, so you give them that value as their total gold, or just the sell price? I can make arguments for either. I would rule that if it is something the group actually uses/is likely to use, it counts as the full price. If it is something they won't use, then it counts as the sell price.
Yes, the banker has that trait. As far as the gold issue, I understand the arguments for both, but for total wealth, you would have to calculate based on whether they sell or keep the item. The whole thing also gets skewed if there are crafters in the party (like a Lore Oracle with the +20 to any Int Skill...oh craft is an Int skill...ok, well let me just get a +28 on that craft, making me capable of ignoring lots of crafting requirements)
I went through the book, and did the following... My party only missed a few things. So this isn't entirely complete (they did nothing in the Sanatorium). (Excuse the formatting, as it was pasted from excel)
ITEM COST TOTAL
Masterwork Ranseur 310 310
(8) Potion of CLW 50 400
(12) Potion of CMW 300 3600
Potion of Gaseous Form 750 750
(2) Ring of Protection +1 2000 4000
Masterwork Thieves Tools 100 100
Masterwork Flute 100 100
(2) Cloak of Resistance +1 1000 2000
(2) Masterwork Pair of Manacles 50 100
Sihedron Medallion 3500 3500
Ring of Force Shield (Sihedron Rune) 8500 8500
Jade Amulet of Natural Armor +1 2000 2000
Longsword +1 2315 2315
Leather Armor +1 1160 1160
Bastard Sword +1 2335 2335
Iesha’s Scarf (100gp) 100 100
Adamantine Longsword 3015 3015
Hat of Disguise 1800 1800
Ring of Jumping 2500 2500
Chime of Opening (5) 3000 3000
Various Books 300 300
Scroll of Burning Hands 25 25
Scroll of Flaming Sphere 150 150
Scroll of Comprehend Languages 25 25
Scroll of Minor Image 150 150
Scroll of See Invisibility 150 150
Scroll of Sleep 25 25
Scroll of Whispering Wind 150 150
Scroll of Lightning Bolt 375 375
Scroll of Keen Edge 375 375
Wand of Shocking Grasp (28) 750 420
Wand of Produce Flame (34) 750 510
Wand of Tree Shape (4) 750 60
Wand of Shield (9) 750 135
Wand of Silent Image (5) 750 75
Wand of Magic Missile (38) 750 570
Wand of Gentle Repose (17) 4500 1530
Wand of False Life (29) 4500 2610
Wand of Identify (15) 750 225
Masterwork Dog Slicer 308 308
Masterwork Scimitar 315 315
(4)Ever Burning Torch 110 440
Hide Armor +1 1165 1165
Masterwork Shortbow 330 330
Hungry Decapitant 500 500
Reward Bandit 500 500
Heavy Pick +1 2308 2308
Longsword +1 2315 2315
Masterwork Handaxe 306 306
Silver Dagger 322 322
Cold Iron Returning Dagger 10304 10304
Masterwork Breastplate 350 350
Shortsword +1 2310 2310
Masterwork Comp Bow +4 800 800
Banded Mail +1 1400 1400
Breastplate +1 1350 1350
Stalker's Mask 3500 3500
War Razor +1 2308 2308
TOTAL 80576
Gold (Total Cash of actual gold, and small trinkets etc) 12531
I'm making an equipment sale checklist. So far I only have Burnt Offerings complete, but I'll work on Skinsaw later tonight after the kids go to bed. I've uploaded it to google docs: ***GM EYES ONLY*** YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! ***EXPLOSIVE RUNES***
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