Goblin Squad Member
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My organization has been thinking lately on the multiple associations we have made within the pre-game community and on several topics discussed and we think we have thought up something rather unique.
It is well established that we are attempting to evolve our order so that it can encompass all the alignments and roles we wish to fill and in that endeavor we think we have discovered a unique use for our CG.
Without a player guard flag to be established there isn't really a way to enact a fine or smaller punishment for breaking settlement policies or nation policies.
Our unique solution:
The SAD action that can be performed by Brigands.
We're still developing this concept so let us know what you think.
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I think that the bounty, and alignment systems are going to be a main feature, if not the defining ones of PFOL. I am noticing a trend already though, it seems like nobody around here seems to think that the intended systems are 1) Not going to really going to discourage the types of activity that other PCs will find issue with and 2) That players will have to create meta-gamed organizations to try and game the system in such a way as to "police" other players.
This I think is BAD, bad bad bad. Please dont take this in offense but trying to engineer the community into a focus where we ignore the basic fundamental guiding principals of the game, then the problem isn't with the game, or the alignment system, it's with the community not having the temper to give real feedback to improve these systems, and instead they undermine them, and try to find exploits (Already) to behave however they feel they are justified in doing so.
If alignment really is doomed to be something the players dislike, avoid, and try to minimize the effects of, then the whole system is just a waste of time and money.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Your "unique solution" is called banditry. A Chaotic Good, Neutral or Evil character can employ the Outlaw flag. There does not need to be a different flag for Good, Neutral or Evil, because all purposes of banditry are considered chaotic and not the other aspect of the alignment system.
You can pretend being a Chaotic Good bandit is some how better ore more acceptable than being one of the other two chaotic alignments, but your a robber to your victims regardless.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with you being a bandit company. I just believe you shouldn't feel the need to candy coat it. Embrace your greed, and declare with pride... All your stuff belongs to me!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think you misinterpret me, What I mean is that my CG charters may employ "bandits" in order to collect fines.
This is not a request for additional flags or the request to change flags, this is how we intend to use that flag for our purpose. I thought I made that expressly clear but I will reiterate it non-the-less.
Thumbs up to Bluddwolf, although despite a possible familial tie, we will not be joining you in the bandit domain, maybe one day.
As I will reiterate a final time, I am just offering this suggestion to others, we plan to use our CG members that wish to participate as Fine collectors.
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To be fair, shaking people down for money because of alignment reasons seem MUCH more Lawful than Good. I can see CG playing the kind of revengeneering type to pull of vigilante justice, but fining somebody for their actions is certainly not Chaotic, that is unless you plan on killing them after you take their goods anyway... in which case that is pretty off base with what a typical Good character would be comfortable.
The Robin Hood idea of taking from those who have plenty, and fulfill corrupt lives would certainly serve a CG role, assuming they aren't doing it out of personal or selfish reasons.
I guess my whole point is, threatening someones life for their goods or money will pretty much NEVER be Good unless you only prosecute Evil players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think you misinterpret me, What I mean is that my CG charters may employ "bandits" in order to collect fines.
You may be correct, I misinterpreted your solution, but it is not quite unique regardless.... I'll gladly explain.
If you and or your company has an enemy or just someone or some company / settlement that you have a conflict with, you may contract our services to focus our banditry efforts on their merchants and gatherers.
This is exactly what The UnNamed Company was conceptualized to do. WE will be the "Un Named" agents of your retaliation or your assault on your rivals. But, you do not have to use your Chaotic members to do this, anyone can contract anyone. Contracts do not have to be handled in the open, or even in game. They can be meta gamed, and that is most likely a better solution for you anyway.
We will do your dirty work, for a fee, and keep your reputation untarnished.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Contracts do not have to be handled in the open, or even in game. They can be meta gamed, and that is most likely a better solution for you anyway.
We will do your dirty work, for a fee, and keep your reputation untarnished.
Bluddwolf is correct: the idea of setting up all kinds of in-game and meta game contracts has been discussed by the community, and we even have forums set up specifically for that purpose.
Had the impression that "Crimson Commander: Deacon Wulf" wont's to use his "bandits" as a police force or as the secret police. Pay the fine (S.A.D) or do the time(Time=Death in this case).
It may be better to look at "Crimson Commander: Deacon Wulf" Bandits as the I.R.S, You owe the settlement money, we offer S.A.D or we kill you and then boot you from the settlement. Booting players from there settlement may be too hash so bandits may be the answer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nine, what you are talking about would be an extreme cases, mostly a standard and civil negotiation or informal repremand would be the logical choice for us, but in some cases choices are limited in the actions that we can take, if chaos thrives in our settlements how could we maintain face as an orginization dedicated to the protect of our populace and greater enjoyment of pathfinder online.
Nine, what you are talking about would be an extreme cases, mostly a standard and civil negotiation or informal repremand would be the logical choice for us, but in some cases choices are limited in the actions that we can take, if chaos thrives in our settlements how could we maintain face as an orginization dedicated to the protect of our populace and greater enjoyment of pathfinder online.
Without a player guard flag to be established there isn't really a way to enact a fine or smaller punishment for breaking settlement policies or nation policies.
Our unique solution:
The SAD action that can be performed by Brigands.
So why do you want your bandits to SAD players?.You ask, they say no, then what-Send in the hounds
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Goblin Squad Member
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To be honest with you, yes.
If a peaceful solution cannot be achieved than there may be no choice, but I assure you it is not something that we will take lightly, and as Commander Wulf posted he is trying to get feedback on this idea, there is still much in the way of developement for pathfinder online, but as for now we have to think of the citicenship whom obey the laws, and do what is best to guard non-fighter types, as well as players who are outclassed in combat situations.
I Shot a Man in Reno Just To Watch Him Die
Enforcer (Lawful)
Enforcer is for characters who want to enforce the laws of their own settlements or others.
This flag is automatically disabled by gaining the Attacker or Criminal flag.
This flag cannot be activated while the Attacker or Criminal flag (or their 24-hour versions) is active.
While Enforcer is active:
The player gets a bonus to Perception and Hit Points that scales up each hour they remain flagged up to ten hours.
The player gets bonus Law vs. Chaos for each character with Criminal killed, up to a daily max.
The player earns reputation at the end of the first hour this flag is active. This award increases each hour up to a set maximum. This count resets whenever the bonuses from the flag reset.
Blood on the Tracks
Flags
Criminal: This flag is given to players that break a law established by the settlement that controls the hex they're in. This is likely to last for some time after taking the action. Illegal actions are declared via the settlement system by the players in charge, but often include murder (for example, killing a target in an unprovoked attack). You don't gain the flag for breaking a law in a settlement you're at war with.
This wont give be of much help to the CG players but it covers the basic law enforcement.
But i do support CG bandits acting as the settlements "special" police force.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree with what Carbon wrote and I think that if you think the game needs a way for enforcers to collect tax/fines or make arrests then you should try to convince GW to allow players with the enforcer flag to do so.
Using a mechanism that was intended for a very different purpose to collect your fines does not sound like the way to go.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As NineMoons pointed out...
The Enforcer (Lawful) flag is used to hunt down and punish (ie. fine) Criminals or those flying the Outlaw Flag.
Stand-and-Deliver is a mechanic of the Outlaw Flag (Chaotic). Your Chaotic Good characters can employ that flag to stop and shake down any character you desire. Your major problem will be, if you made flying the Outlaw Flag against the law in and around your settlement, your own "Police" force maybe breaking the very laws that you want them to uphold.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...if chaos thrives in our settlements how could we maintain face as an orginization dedicated to the protect of our populace and greater enjoyment of pathfinder online.
Crush the chaos with an iron fist.
It's not just an ideological battle; the plane of chaos tears at the fringes of every plane, spewing madness into good orderly places just like the worldwound does on Golarion. Order must be enforced. The universe must be stabilized and chaos driven back.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Unfortunately the Order of the Crimson Guard will not be implementing this structure. But that does not mean other organizations could not utilize this.
To address those with concerns:
This system was meant to be a system our order within the game. It was in no way a system in violation of the "spirit" of the intended system. What is so unheard of as a Thieves Guild? That must be a preposterous notion. A guild of thieves that manage the thieves under them? Gods be Warned!
(That's my sarcasm for the day)
I think you may need to reanalyze what was stated and for what intended purpose. I don't want my enforcers and champions randomly killing players that break light rules or social norms. I'm merely requesting less severe actions than:
1. settlement banishment
2. Death
Those seem to be the only systems in place currently to address the issue of crime. (Enforcers fall under death btw).