Goblin Squad Member
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I think the assassination contract should be a purely evil shift, no reputation loss, or chaotic shift.
Issuing an Assassination gives a small evil sift.
If the contract creator is more 'good' than the target, the evil shift for the assassin is lower when they make the kill.
If the contract creator is more 'evil' than the target, the evil shift for the assassin is greater when they make the kill.
There should be an assassin reputation system that you tie to an alias. for instance: Tony the "Bread" Maker. You increase reputation by completing contracts, and you lose reputation by dropping/failing them.
That being said, I think an assassination contract should only be able to be created by a settlement at war, and only target a settlement they are at war with. This would be a way to bring in outside help other than unreliable bandit mercenaries.
There would be a few skills tied to Assassin Contracts:
For Making Contracts:
(Settlement)Contract Creation: Assassin
-Allows the creation of assassination contracts.
-You can have one open contract for each level of this skill
(Settlement)Information Control
-Limits the amount of information 'commoners' pick up on
-never makes the information completely secret
Obtaining Contracts:
Contract Discovery: Assassination
-Enables the procurement of assassination contracts
-You can have one open contract for each level
Assassination
-Increases the penalty associated with you assassinations
-Allows the creation of an assassin alias to mark your kills.
Advanced Assassination Techniques
-Further increases the penalty, requires settlement building Assassin's Guild Hall which is only available to evil settlements, the more evil the settlement, the higher this skill can be trained
Assassination: Anonymity
-Increases your ability to keep your assassination alias secret when accepting a contract, if you are requested by name this skill has no effect, increased by assassin reputation.
Learning About Open Assassination Contracts:
(Settlement)Information Gathering
-Increases the amount of information about other settlements you receive from 'commoners
(Settlement)Threat Reporting
-Increases ability to learn of assassination contracts against settlement.
-Increases town upkeep(simulate reward payments to 'commoners'), upkeep is lower the more lawful the town is.
'Commoners'
Part of this suggestion involves commoners, commoners should be less inclined to move between towns of larger alignment/reputation differences. The larger the difference between the law/chaos and reputation of the settlement, the less information is found. This doesn't mean that a fully lawful high rep settlement will never hear about assassination contracts against them from fully chaotic low rep settlements. The random factor will make sure that if both sides are stacking all the bonuses, there will be a small chance information gets through.
Making the contract
When a contract is issued a series of checks are made by the server. Every game-day a new check is made. There is a random part to this check, but enough bonuses stacking in favor could eliminate the random chance if the opposing side doesn't have just as many bonuses.
The checks involve:
1. (Settlement)Information Control and difference in settlement alignment/reputation against (Settlement)Threat Reporting and (Settlement)Information Gathering(weaker influence) plus a random bonus, to see if you have contracts against your settlement.
2. (Settlement)Information Control and difference in settlement alignment/reputation against (Settlement)Threat Reporting and (Settlement)Information Gathering(weaker influence) plus a smaller random bonus, to see who the contract targets.
3. Assassination:Anonymity, (Settlement)Information Control and difference in settlement alignment/reputation against (Settlement)Thread Reporting and (Settlement)Information Gathering(weaker influence) plus a random bonus, to see who accepted the contract.
If the check is successful the settlement will receive a notification, and there will be a personal notification sent to the target if that check is successful. 2 & 3 require 1 to succeed.
4. Information Control + alignment/reputation difference vs. Information Gathering + bonus, to see what information was discovered by your, made after each above check(1-3). The assassin won't be notified, they must be contacted by the settlement they are working for.
5. A they know you know they know you know check.(maybe)
Assassination Death Penalty:
-All threads are broken.
I feel this would be fair, because it is only available at war, and I feel it is reasonable to make players play more conservatively, especially the high priority targets.
Assassinations cannot be re-issued more than once a week this prevents repeatedly making contracts for the perfect knowledge checks.
Removing a contract
Only the assassin can void a contract once it is accepted. A cancellation fee is part of the contract. In order to collect a cancellation fee, the assassin must receive a cancellation request from the contract creator.
The contract creator can also request a collateral payment.
An assassin can drop the contract and pay the collateral at any time, they will lose assassin reputation.
This gives the assassin a chance to be bribed into dropping the contract by the target, they will likely have to cover more than the collateral and assassination reward, and/or give them something worthwhile to offset the money and rep loss.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Very good ideas, although I don't know about limiting it only to settlements at war.
For example, if you are working your way up to be a top crafter, but this other crafter always gets all the really good resources before you do, maybe you want to hire an assassin to kill them before they *strike* their next harvest in order to allow you a chance to get their first and claim the goods.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Very good ideas, although I don't know about limiting it only to settlements at war.
For example, if you are working your way up to be a top crafter, but this other crafter always gets all the really good resources before you do, maybe you want to hire an assassin to kill them before they *strike* their next harvest in order to allow you a chance to get their first and claim the goods.
From what I've been reading, you will likely have to be a member of a successful settlement if you want to be a 'top crafter', and your competition would also be a member of a successful settlement. So if you are constantly beating you to the resources they want, you can be sure their settlement is part of it, and go to war. War over resources is probably going to be the largest reason for war in the game.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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True, but thinking on the opposite side where you have a NG settlement with a CN or even NE crafter (That is within one step, since it still is N?) that settlement might not be willing to go to war over something like that, but the crafter very well might be willing to still setup an assassination contract.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Counter-Assassination-target finds out about the hit and who posted it. Guess assassin to take out the poster before he dies, original assassination contract nullified, negative rep for the poster, money in contract escrow wasted.
Sorry, but I didn't follow that at all. Can you rephrase?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Al sets up a contract on Bob, which Charlie accepts. Bob find out before Charlie Carries out the deed. Bob sets up a 'counter assassination' contract on Al, that Dave (or even Charlie) accepts. Al is taken out before Bob. Al's contract on Bob becomes void, and the money in escrow (in terms of how contracts were said to work) becomes forfeit. Al lose rep for reneging on his contract, Charlie is mad but no worse off (even better if he accepted the country contract), Bob gets to live, and Dave makes some cash.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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NG settlement can only harbor CG, NG, LG, and TN characters
Even if that is the case, the same applies where a NG settlement might not want to go to war over some resources where as a TN character might not really care about hiring an assassin to get ahead since he thinks the other crafter is slighting him anyway by always taking all the good resources.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Even if that is the case, the same applies where a NG settlement might not want to go to war over some resources where as a TN character might not really care about hiring an assassin to get ahead since he thinks the other crafter is slighting him anyway by always taking all the good resources.
I would suggest that crafter either:
A. Finds a new settlement that is aligned with their goals, a cut-throat crafter shouldn't reside in a NG settlement.B. Starts working harder to find resources.
C. Starts looking in a further away location
There will be some rare resources, but no one will be able to hog everything. If someone is doing better than you, you work to be better than them, or start looking in new territory. There will probably not be any crafters or organizations that can survey the whole game-world and stay on top of everything.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I understand, I'm just using the idea as a way to make a point that assassination should not be limited to settlements at war as it does potentially limit gameplay options, while not providing any specific enhancements (at least that I can think of).
Maybe to accommodate non-war assassinations it could have a higher rep cost?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like many of these points.
I don't like the idea of an assassination contract only possible to be made by a settlement at war. Perhaps that should be a restriction for good aligned settlements, but from an immersion point of view makes no sense for neutral or evil settlements. It also assumes that the settlement itself is agreed in the desire to issue the contract, in which case the settlement itself should also take an alignment shift. Individuals make the contracts. If you want settlements to be able to make contracts, then I can see this making sense only for good settlements.
By strictest definition, assassination is against political targets. But hiring a hitman is exactly the same thing except the target is not political. So in opposing the above point part of it is that I am, in my mind, lumping assassins and hitmen together.
The checks by the settlements: may like to see this fine tuned, but overall it makes sense to have NPCs gathering whatever intelligence they can in the background.
Death penalty seems on the weak side, although I don't haven any alternatives to suggest off the top of my head. The reason it seems on the weak side is that its effectiveness is determined by the value of what the target is carrying at the time. It seems to me the severity should have more to do with the assassin's skill than the contents of his target's backpack.
I like the counter assassination idea.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Blaeringr
Yeah, couldn't think up anything besides that, and forgot about my 'increasing penalty' skills. Something Like EVE's bounty system could be used.
How about this:
When you issue a assassination or bounty you create a pool of reward money, a minimum payment per kill, and a reward/coin-lost amount. Every time the target is killed, the killer receives a reward based on how much coin the target lost or the minimum payment, whichever is higher. So if the bounty rewards 2/coin and the target loses 100coin of stuff, you get 200 coin from the pool. If a kill puts the coin pool lower than the minimum payment, the remaining coin is rewarded for that kill and the contract is over.
The assassination is a reduction in 'threads' based on how much the assassin has trained, with the highest training being a 100% reduction(full gear loss). Kind of like a death curse, but it randomly breaks threads. So all you need is the Contract Discovery: Assassination, but the more you train in assassination, the more your target loses, and the more you get per kill.
The alignment of the settlement is based on the alignment of all the members, if one issues a contract and get's an evil shift, the settlement also sees a small shift in the evil direction. They won't be a huge impact on settlements unless they are issuing them like crazy.
I find it hard to fit assassinations outside of war, they will either have to carry a high cost and require lots of training to issue, or they will be used way to freely and start to fall into griefing territory.
On the Evil axis I see 3 'killer' professions, every kill shifts them evil.
LE: Criminal Hunter - takes bounties only against criminals, so they shift lawful with each kill.
NE: Assassin - Only kills in war time, and doesn't see a chaotic, or lawful shift
CE: Bounty hunter - takes any bounty, mostly based on price, doesn't care who the target is. May shift lawful some, but the chaotic shift from a random kill is higher than the lawful shift from a criminal kill. (this assumes an open bounty system, or under-the-table bounties.)
The assassin would only have to pick up the contract once, so that check is only made once. The assassin will have to conceal their identity though. If they make the kill and stay anonymous, they get around the criminal/attacker flag. This could be another skill for the assassin to train, or part of the base assassin skill.
Another assassin penalty idea popped into my head:
You are sent to the NPC town closest to your alignment and your soul-bind point is set there. Needs some fine tuning, like how to make it so a low rep/criminal doesn't get death-locked. But it makes assassinating someone during a battle have some impact.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The thread suggestion still amounts to a penalty that will be vastly different for someone carrying a +5 sword and someone carrying a rusty spoon. What's in the target's backpack shouldn't make the assassination hurt more, that should just make the death hurt more.
I'd rather see something that scales with the assassins training and/or the "level" of the target. Perhaps a small permanent drain on xp (whatever form xp takes)? Or maybe a larger but temporary drain?
CE - bounty hunter doesn't seem a good fit there...hitman is slightly better, but still not enough of a fit for the chaotic nature. Perhaps "reaper"?
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Goblin Squad Member
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The thread suggestion still amounts to a penalty that will be vastly different for someone carrying a +5 sword and someone carrying a rusty spoon. What's in the target's backpack shouldn't make the assassination hurt more, that should just make the death hurt more.
I'd rather see something that scales with the assassins training and/or the "level" of the target. Perhaps a small permanent drain on xp (whatever form xp takes)? Or maybe a larger but temporary drain?
CE - bounty hunter doesn't seem a good fit there...hitman is slightly better, but still not enough of a fit for the chaotic nature. Perhaps "reaper"?
The assassination(in my suggestion)is based on the target losing money or getting [=pool/minimum] deaths. The hurt is in net loss, not an individual kill. The contract runs until the pool is emptied.
I wouldn't want to see loss, maybe a slow down of skill training.
yeah, it doesn't quite fit 'Head Hunter' maybe?
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Goblin Squad Member
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If the hurt is in the loss of wealth from the target, then how is it different from just killing them?
Getting assassinated would have a larger loss due to threads being reduced or eliminated randomly. I'm guessing that people that don't have a death curse, or known assassination contract on them, are going to carry much more expensive items and thread them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I contract to, or actually assassinate an evil-aligned assassin who is actively targetting an innocent, have I done evil?I think the assassination contract should be a purely evil shift, no reputation loss, or chaotic shift.
...
This conversation had been had before. Ryan made it clear that relativism won't have any place in a programmed world. Many people would love to have that discussion with you, but it's pointless in relation to this game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would basicaly work it like this:
No need for a state of War or anything like that to exist.
Person makes the Assasination contract...there is a shift toward Evil and some coin cost in just creating the contract.
Person accepts the contract...shift toward Evil. A secret die is rolled at this point against the players "Assasination Skill"...the Assasin does NOT get informed of the result of the die.
Assasin initiates combat against the target. The secret die roll from earlier now comes into play, there are 2 possible results...
"Successfull Attempt" - The Assasin gets a buff in the combat and does not suffer criminal tags, death curse or bounties from the attack. This does NOT mean the Assasin automaticaly wins the combat, the target can still defeat them or get away, it just means the Assasin used thier skill to surprise the target and make it impossible for them to be identified.
"Unsuccessfull Attempt" - The Assasin gets a debuff and suffers all the normal penalties associated with an unprovoked attack (tags, bounties, etc). The victem can still be killed or survive.
Regardless of the result the contract is terminated upon the conclusion of the combat (or upon a timer from when the combat commenced, for victems that escaped).
If the target was killed on a successfull attempt the contract is fullfilled, the target suffers a long timer debuff and a death curse and the assasin gets paid. Any other result terminates the contract unsuccessfully.
Targets can potentialy develop skills to make the assasination die roll more difficult.
Benefits...
Relatively simple mechanics to impliment.
Contractor has some cost/risks as he takes an Alignment Shift and carries some financial cost to create the origional contract which he will not recoup if the attempt fails.
Assasin has some risk as he takes an Alignment Shift and also risks fighting the target at a disadvantage, along with all the usual negative effects of an uprovoked attack if his attempt fails.
Target suffers increased penalty from death as he takes both a long term debuff and a reputation hit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Am I right in thinking there's been nothing from GW on how assassination differs from killing? And so this is meant as a suggestion, and the major mechanical difference is it cuts threads?
Yes and no. they have said that assassination will be different and that it will at some point get its own blog devoted to discussing it. But so far they have not given anything other than it will be different.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like for Assassinations to take on a role more consistent with how it is used in reality. As a political tool and strategic tool.
There isn't much point to assassinating a King or even town mayor. Even with all of the penalties associated with assassination a king or mayor is an administrator, and can just respawn and go back to administrating as though nothing had ever happened. Even a general can go back to coordinating his troops and just stay out of combat for a while.
If advanced assassins could gain the ability to lock people in political positions out of their more advanced political tool, and maybe lock them out of politic entirely for a time requiring someone temporary serve in their place you might get a more interesting dynamic with assassination.
As it stands right now, assassination is just advanced griefing. You don't actually stand to gain much of anything by having someone assassinated, just the satisfaction that they were killed once and lost some gear.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Killing should be done for some kind of gain to the person issuing the contract.
But that no longer covers even just "assassins" by the strictest definition. Unless you consider revenge to be a kind of gain.
And hitmen are also hired for gain to the person issuing the contract.
Essentially, I don't think what you are proposing actually is more consistent with reality.