The Inevitable pricing and subscription conversation

[Klandaghi]

This thread is being started as a method to not spam a wall of text into the comments section on the Kickstarter for the game. I feel comments should be short, sweet and to the point, while forums are designed for conversation and friendly debate. That stated, this post is a response to a comment regarding pricing scheme for Pathfinder Online, pay.x then for want.play.months repeat(pay.y)

I personally think that a good number of companies are trying to make the next WoW with their small tweaks, SW:TOR is a good example of this, Star Wars Skinned WoW with choices that effected the immediate outcome, but not the long term. Suddenly the game was choice:

• Yes, I agree completely.
• Yes, I don't like it but I'll do it.
• No, Here's something witty cause I wanted to say yes, but no sounded like more fun.

It's like they said during the Kickstarter for the Tech Demo, We're flooded with Theme Park games set in their own theme worlds, but really it's all different skins to the same rides. That's why I'm backing this project, I want to see them change the game industry. The things I have seen so far all feel very much like the next level of MMO, not a rehash/skin of what we've already seen. I've played in a lot of Betas and the games I felt had a good chance to compete with WoW all had 1 major disadvantage, people had already sunk their time into WoW. If the new game was fantastic enough, it would "dethrone" WoW or at least stick around. So far only 1 sticks out in my mind, Eve.

I think the sandbox concept they are going for will require more support then most games in the past. To take a world, open it to an almost "do what you will" and the game continues kind of feel and be able to support players giving input, that's labor intensive. As they stated during the Tech Demo, People are the most expensive part of the project. Now hire those people full time and have them support lots of people, a good number of which take a "I paid for it, so you should treat me like I'm royalty" stance on getting support. Those in support take the brunt of every gamer's frustration and attempt to do right by the players in the end, day in and day out having to support people behaving like children, it's not fun. Ask any Government worker. Given how they get treated, I'd pay subscription on a game I like to support the people supporting my good time.

With the Kickstarter, based on today's pricing scheme for subscription based games, I think that $50 - 60 up front as long as there isn't new hardware needed to play the game is reasonable. Say they elected to support use of the (Oculus Rift) for Pathfinder Online, I'd pay more to get the hardware with it as well, but I'd want to try it without the hardware before paying a large chunk to step in first. Personally, regarding the Oculus Rift, I'd wait for a few other companies to release and learn from their downfalls on the device, which I expect there will be a few.

The basics of it all are, $35 for the game and a badge on the forum, totally worth it with the perception of being half off. I feel that the higher levels are ultimately more awesome with this concept then most other Collectors Editions. Grats you bought Collector's Edition, here are some things that you may or may not use a lot but look cool, Really Collector's became "Swag" Edition. Sure you can say you were in Beta or Alpha on other games, but what that meant was testing the bugs and pointing them out. Not "I think that this encounter could be better with X change" and the Dev's saying "OK enough of you said as much, let's try it and see." That's having input, which to a degree puts the success or failing of the game on the original group that steps up to work on it in the beta as the crowdforgers. This is an ultimately risky move, but one I like and think will greatly improve games in the future.

I like it, I'm interested, and I'm happy to say I'm a Crowdforger
Comment/reply as you like.

[da_asmodai]

First let me say I backed the Tech Demo and I'm a Pathfinder Online backer and have no regrets about doing so. The question in my mind comes down what level I will support the project NOT if I will or not. I love what they are doing and want them to succeed. Furthermore I agree that a $15/month subscription model is the way for them to go and love how they have implemented a mechanism similar to EVE Online to pay for your subscription via in-game coin. I likewise agree that there are a lot of Theme Park MMOs out there and they they don't really compare to a sandbox MMO. As an aside however there are several non-AAA fantasy sandbox MMOs so it's not like no one else is attempting to do what Pathfinder Online is and Pathfinder isn't exactly a AAA hype machine either. That said Pathfinder Online is the one I've chosen to support largely because my affinity to the pen and paper game as well as my confidence in those creating it (many having worked on EVE and/or World of Darkness).

I don't think sandbox MMOs require more support than theme parks. First of all theme parks are more popular as many people are confused when someone doesn't hold there hand and tell them what they are supposed to do next. Additionally in a theme park what a player has available to do is only what "attractions" the developers create for them making it A LOT of work for the developers to attempt to create content faster than the players consume it. In a sandbox on the other hand much of the content is not created by the developers at all as a properly designed sandbox provides systems by which players can create content for each other. (I hire you to do X for me) Each individual system properly designed allows for different players to create different content instead of the same NPC giving the same quest to everyone. This efficiency is what is going to allow a small company like GoblinWorks to compete with the big guys if everything comes together as we hope.

[Klandaghi]

Ah, heh see, my point on requiring more support is that, ensuring that the open level of complexity works and is something that can be maintained, it will need to be looked at and reviewed over and over again. With the PVP environment being what it is, I imagine a small task force dedicated to handling the situations that arise from that. In a theme park world support is more "I didn't get X item" or "Y quest is bugged." I'm thinking more customer support then developmental support. I'll admit I'm drawing assumptions on an industry I'm not in, so I could be completely off basis.

[Jester David]

I think $15 a month might be high in this era of F2P MMOs. Granted, it's been 15 for eight years, but a onetime fee and subscription hurts. Especially after paying that $60.

The pricing of Eve might be nice where the full game is cheap ($20). Easy to get in to and take a risk. A lot of people will be hesitant of the game, given the PvP. And the game will need players to build its economy.
Alternatively a higher onetime with a cheaper monthly fee might work. There can be microtransaction supporting and subsidizing the monthly fee. Halfway between free to play and full subscriptions.