Can a spellslinger cast (appropriate) scrolls through his gun RAW? I'm inclined to say yes.
Arcane Gun (Su)
The spellslinger gains the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat, and one or two of his firearms can be arcane guns. Arcane guns are normal one-handed or two-handed firearms in the hands of others, as they were normal firearms before the spellslinger imbued them with magic. In a spellslinger’s hands, they both fire projectiles (bullets and pellets) and cast magic. At 1st level, the spellslinger decides whether he wants to have one or two arcane guns at a time. If the spellslinger chooses to have only one arcane gun at a time, spells fired Classes through the arcane gun that require an attack roll have a ×3 critical hit multiplier.
A spellslinger can cast any ranged touch attack, cone, line, or ray spells through his arcane gun. When he casts through the arcane gun, the gun’s enhancement bonus (if any) is a bonus to the spell’s attack rolls or to the spell’s saving throw DCs. Yet there are dangers inherent to this method. If any of the spells’ attack rolls result in a natural 1 (a misfire), or a natural 20 is rolled on any saving throw made against the spell by a target (an overload), the arcane gun gains the broken condition. If the arcane gun already has the broken condition, the gun explodes. When a gun explodes, it lets loose a blast of force, or if the spell has the acid, cold, electricity, or sonic descriptor, it deals that type of energy damage instead. In the case of spells with multiple descriptors, roll randomly among the descriptors to determine the type of damage dealt by the blast. The blast is centered on a single intersection within the spellslinger’s space (spellslinger’s choice) and deals 1d6 points of the appropriate energy damage or force damage per level of the spell cast. Any creature within the blast other than the spellslinger can make a Reflex saving throw to halve the damage. The Reflex save DC is calculated using the spell level of the spell being sacrificed.
A spellslinger can attune his arcane guns at the start of each day. That attunement lasts until the spellslinger attunes to a new gun, even if a formally attuned gun is destroyed.
This ability replaces arcane bond.
As long as it's one of the types of the spells that can be cast through the gun I don't see why not... I ask since I want to flavor the scrolls as "cartridges"(still treating them as scrolls in regard to feats and other checks) for a spellslinger/gunslinger/e.k. inspired by Gene Starwind from Outlaw Star. However if he can't actually use the scrolls through his gun it's not really worth the re-flavor it imo.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Can a spellslinger cast (appropriate) scrolls through his gun RAW? I'm inclined to say yes.
...Arcane Gun (Su)
The spellslinger gains the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat, and one or two of his firearms can be arcane guns. Arcane guns are normal one-handed or two-handed firearms in the hands of others, as they were normal firearms before the spellslinger imbued them with magic. In a spellslinger’s hands, they both fire projectiles (bullets and pellets) and cast magic. At 1st level, the spellslinger decides whether he wants to have one or two arcane guns at a time. If the spellslinger chooses to have only one arcane gun at a time, spells fired Classes through the arcane gun that require an attack roll have a ×3 critical hit multiplier.
A spellslinger can cast any ranged touch attack, cone, line, or ray spells through his arcane gun. When he casts through the arcane gun, the gun’s enhancement bonus (if any) is a bonus to the spell’s attack rolls or to the spell’s saving throw DCs. Yet there are dangers inherent to this method. If any of the spells’ attack rolls result in a natural 1 (a misfire), or a natural 20 is rolled on any saving throw made against the spell by a target (an overload), the arcane gun gains the broken condition. If the arcane gun already has the broken condition, the gun explodes. When a gun explodes, it lets loose a blast of force, or if the spell has the acid, cold, electricity, or sonic descriptor, it deals that type of energy damage instead. In the case of spells with multiple descriptors, roll randomly among the descriptors to determine the type of damage dealt by the blast. The blast is centered on a single intersection within the spellslinger’s space (spellslinger’s choice) and deals 1d6 points of the appropriate energy damage or force damage per level of the spell cast. Any creature within the blast other than the spellslinger can make a Reflex saving throw to halve the damage. The Reflex save DC is calculated using the spell level of the spell being
Casting a spell using a scroll is still considered casting a spell, so I would say yes, no reason it shouldn't work. As the GM, though, I would make sure that you take the time to retrieve your "scroll cartridge" in the same way as you normally would, and you'd still need to have a verbal component (as in you can't just put the cartridge in and fire it and have the spell work, you still need to say the incantation associated with the scroll).
FYI, this would work with wands too, since casting from a wand is still considered casting a spell. The only thing this would NOT work with is spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities that imitate spell effects.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
I only see one problem. If you use a rifle you can't do it. The scroll takes one "hand" (I know the flavor is for a cartridge but still) and the rifle takes two.
There's no reason that you couldn't hold the rifle with one hand while casting from the scroll/cartridge, then place your newly-free hand on the rifle to fire it (since as per the description of a scroll, the writing disappears, so you could just free-action drop the newly empty sheet of paper). Nothing says that you have to have both hands on the rifle for the entire round to fire it, just while you aim and pull the trigger.
This has been debated in the past though, since technically you can't "wield" a staff one-handed, but a Wizard needs a free hand to cast a spell, so technically you can't ever wield your bonded staff when you're casting a spell, so you'd always need to make a concentration check. That's being way over-technical, though, in my opinion.
I only see one problem. If you use a rifle you can't do it. The scroll takes one "hand" (I know the flavor is for a cartridge but still) and the rifle takes two.
So grow a third hand.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
I only see one problem. If you use a rifle you can't do it. The scroll takes one "hand" (I know the flavor is for a cartridge but still) and the rifle takes two.So grow a third hand.
Haha good point. He has two levels of Alchemist, he just needs to take the Extra Discovery feat and choose Vestigial Arm.
I only see one problem. If you use a rifle you can't do it. The scroll takes one "hand" (I know the flavor is for a cartridge but still) and the rifle takes two.So grow a third hand.
If you are being serious, well that can be done but I don't think the level dip into alchemist is worth it. Unless you were playing an experimental gunsmith (gnome archetype) but then you probably wouldn't be doing spellslinger too.
If you are being serious, well that can be done but I don't think the level dip into alchemist is worth it. Unless you were playing an experimental gunsmith (gnome archetype) but then you probably wouldn't be doing spellslinger too.I only see one problem. If you use a rifle you can't do it. The scroll takes one "hand" (I know the flavor is for a cartridge but still) and the rifle takes two.So grow a third hand.
For the record, I wasn't being too serious, although having an extra hand or prehensile tail does seem to come up often in Pathfinder.
Okay cool, was planning on having them emulate the action economy of scrolls anyways, hence my "treating them as scrolls in regard to feats and other checks" bit.
As for the rifle thing, I would say it's allowed, since a rifle would require hands for casting as a spellslinger anyways... So unless a rifle wielding spellslinger can't cast spells through his gun without wasting a turn to switch his hold on the gun, I don't see why using a scroll would be treated different, especially when at least your taking the time to pull the scroll out with a move action.
A moot point for me though, since planning it be a long-pistol similar to this one. Again, inspired by outlaw star.
How are you gonna get the scrolls though...with both Gunslinger AND Spellslinger you get Gunsmithing. Unless you ask the DM to just look over and allow Scribe Scroll since you already have Gunsmithing or just take the feat???
The same way other characters who can't scribe do... With money. I will just buy scrolls, or "cartidges". Take it from my WBL. Plus if I invest in UMD, I can get access to divine scrolls(of the acceptable type) to modify their DCs with my gun. If it turns out to be too expensive though for estimated wealth; then I'll invest in the feat.
Don't see why a DM would have a problem with that. Even more since I'm the DM in this case, and this is planned to be an enemy NPC. I just like to make things by the book.
|
Well since you are the DM then yes just let it slide haha. Being a huge fan of Outlaw Star I'm glad you actually brought this post up because when it first came out and I saw the Spellslinger I thought Caster Gun but thematically using just spells wasnt enough and I never even thought of scrolls as ammo so kudos to that haha
Well since you are the DM then yes just let it slide haha. Being a huge fan of Outlaw Star I'm glad you actually brought this post up because when it first came out and I saw the Spellslinger I thought Caster Gun but thematically using just spells wasnt enough and I never even thought of scrolls as ammo so kudos to that haha
Haha, I could but that wouldn't be very lawful of me :P
And Thanks lol. Though in your defense, I was in the exact same mindset as you till a player of mine decided to go Spellslinger/Cleric/MT and started asking me how to make scrolls and handing them out to party members(he's taking the feat to do so).
Then I started reading up on the rules and when I realized any non caster with a high UMD could cast, I thought of a gunslinger but saw he didn't have UMD as a skill... But are strangely proficient in all martial weapons(something I didn't know) and thought I should make an Eldritch Knight/Gunslinger and of course Spellslinger came to mind and wel... the rest just sorta fell into place lol.
|
|
So how specifically are you gonna build this?? Just a 1 level dip in GS or are you gonna go to 5 for Dex damage?? I can see where spell progression get easily lost BUT as a Gene Starwind-esque character wouldnt you want to get ahold of high level scrolls (albeit "rare" caster shells") and just use the fact that you are a wizard and can just cast them through the gun and no UMD would be required until you wanna dip into divine spells. Also Magical Knack might be something for a nice little damage boost until your wizard levels catch back up
So how specifically are you gonna build this?? Just a 1 level dip in GS or are you gonna go to 5 for Dex damage?? I can see where spell progression get easily lost BUT as a Gene Starwind-esque character wouldnt you want to get ahold of high level scrolls (albeit "rare" caster shells") and just use the fact that you are a wizard and can just cast them through the gun and no UMD would be required until you wanna dip into divine spells. Also Magical Knack might be something for a nice little damage boost until your wizard levels catch back up
Thinking I was gonna do exactly that something along those lines.
Thing is, both the Spellslinger & the gunslinger are classes that benefit from dips(since grit doesn't scale with level & the arcane gun abilities scale with the level of the spell casted not caster level) and I can only take EK to 10.
I figure GS 5/ SpSl W 5/ EK 10 the way I wanna build; ending with +18 BAB & Casting as a 14th Level Wizard (so even for 9th level scrolls I won't have to roll no higher than a 6 for any non-epic scroll.
Casting a spell using a scroll is still considered casting a spellFalse.
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9n9y
Daw... Well that's why I asked. Still gonna do this though; it'll just be flavor. No enchanment bonus from the gun.
|
|
So how specifically are you gonna build this?? Just a 1 level dip in GS or are you gonna go to 5 for Dex damage?? I can see where spell progression get easily lost BUT as a Gene Starwind-esque character wouldnt you want to get ahold of high level scrolls (albeit "rare" caster shells") and just use the fact that you are a wizard and can just cast them through the gun and no UMD would be required until you wanna dip into divine spells. Also Magical Knack might be something for a nice little damage boost until your wizard levels catch back upThinking I was gonna do exactly that something along those lines.
Thing is, both the Spellslinger & the gunslinger are classes that benefit from dips(since grit doesn't scale with level & the arcane gun abilities scale with the level of the spell casted not caster level) and I can only take EK to 10.
I figure GS 5/ SpSl W 5/ EK 10 the way I wanna build; ending with +18 BAB & Casting as a 14th Level Wizard (so even for 9th level scrolls I won't have to roll no higher than a 6 for any non-epic scroll.
Thats exactly how I was lookin at it as well and would build it personally. However which do you take first...delayed Dex damage or delayed spell access. Im thinking spell access since you can just make scrolls until then although at early levels it will not be cheap
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Casting a spell using a scroll is still considered casting a spellFalse.
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9n9y
I've been foiled! Good catch.
Thats exactly how I was lookin at it as well and would build it personally. However which do you take first...delayed Dex damage or delayed spell access. Im thinking spell access since you can just make scrolls until then although at early levels it will not be cheap
I think given the fact that scrolls won't be modified by the gun and are just a flavoring mostly, I need to delay the dex to damage rather than the spell access.
So I'd go GS 1 -> Spellslinger 5. Then after that I can alternate between EK & GS as I see fit.
|
Thanks for reminding me about Outlaw Star - that show rocked! :)
If you're the GM then couldn't your guy make (or buy) 'spell-in-a-can' cartridges made via the Craft Wonderous Item Feat and the Magic Item Creation guidelines? 'Spell-in-a-can' might be a no-no for RPG Superstar, but I think that's more because they're easy to work out for yourself using the guidelines (and therefore not interesting enough for the competition) rather than being 'wrong' in any fashion.
Thanks for reminding me about Outlaw Star - that show rocked! :)
If you're the GM then couldn't your guy make (or buy) 'spell-in-a-can' cartridges made via the Craft Wonderous Item Feat and the Magic Item Creation guidelines? 'Spell-in-a-can' might be a no-no for RPG Superstar, but I think that's more because they're easy to work out for yourself using the guidelines (and therefore not interesting enough for the competition) rather than being 'wrong' in any fashion.
You're welcome lol.
And though that's true, they'd still be items that fall into the "no use for arcane gun" category, regardless of if he made them or not. Unless I homebrewed a feat or find one that lets a person use the abilities with scrolls, it wouldn't do much good either way.
Plus, re-skinning scrolls is way easier since they're already meant to be disposable & costly.
I see the need for some arcane armor training in this build as well...is there arcane spell failure when associated with scrolls??
Actually I'm thinking it'd be a high dex-er build(since I will eventually get dex to damage), thus no need for arcane armor training. Especially since I'd be fighting over swift actions with the EK capstone's free quickened spell & Arcane Armor Training.
Thinking I'm gonna go with bracers or an enchanted Harimaki since the Gunslinger loses some of his abilities if he goes higher than light armor. I could go with some mithral medium armor; but that depends on the builds dex and the Spell Failure rate of the armor once light.
Edit: As for the scroll arcane spell failure... I would think so. Not 100% sure myself though. I imagine that wouldn't be an issue for Divine scrolls though... But in combination with the chance of failure built into most scrolls; I think that it would just be best to avoid the failure chance from armor all together.
|
|
Well, if you're just using the guidelines to invent your own items you can just design them to work with the arcane gun feature, can't you? Charge yourself a little more gold for the privilege, perhaps?
Of course if it's just the visuals you're going for you could just make the cartridge aspect what this guy uses for material components - maybe reskin his spell component pouch as a pouch full of 'caster shells'?
|
|
I ALWAYS forget about the Haramaki and Robes from UC...that would definitely be the better route to go plus if I recall correctly a +5 Haramaki will run you 10k gold less than Bracers +6 which would be the ideal way of course.
and playing off of Prof Potts idea...notice how in the anime the caster shells have runes and markings on them...if you refavored them like that with the scroll writing on the shell you could play it like that possibly
Well, if you're just using the guidelines to invent your own items you can just design them to work with the arcane gun feature, can't you? Charge yourself a little more gold for the privilege, perhaps?
Of course if it's just the visuals you're going for you could just make the cartridge aspect what this guy uses for material components - maybe reskin his spell component pouch as a pouch full of 'caster shells'?
I could... but I'm worried about tipping my hand to my players. If I make a house rule or homebrew an item, feat, whatever; I post it to our groups wall, thus they might catch wind of the concept just by me putting it up. I know that's troublesome, but transparency for rules is a big deal to me personally. I'd rather just reskin something within the existing rules.
Visuals are a big key for me though, so I may very well do exactly that.
I ALWAYS forget about the Haramaki and Robes from UC...that would definitely be the better route to go plus if I recall correctly a +5 Haramaki will run you 10k gold less than Bracers +6 which would be the ideal way of course.
and playing off of Prof Potts idea...notice how in the anime the caster shells have runes and markings on them...if you refavored them like that with the scroll writing on the shell you could play it like that possibly
Yeah, but I've made enough Ninja to remember the silly thing lol. Depending on the level I throw this at my party, bracers may be on him anyways.
Agreed, it's a good idea. Plus it's a go to for read magic or such to identify a shell in line with scrolls based on the runes.
Reflavor such that instead of using scrolls, the Gunsmithing ability allows you to craft "magic bullets" in the same way one would craft scrolls. Then, instead of freely casting any spell you have memorized, you have to use pre-crafted spell cartridges to cast off the gun. Maybe, as a counterbalance for losing the ability to freely cast any memorized spell through the gun, you up the crit rate to x3 for dual-bonded and x4 for single-bonded guns.
It would solve my problems but as I said above, I don't wanna make a rule like that without informing my players(especially since one is playing a spellslinger).