Goblin Squad Member
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I think there is a middle-ground that PFO should shoot for. Most MMO's historically under-do it as far as sounds go. They may or may not have some epic music that really enhances the game. They may or may not have some decent sound effects. But generally every time you converse with an NPC it's gives you one of a couple regurgitated audio clips or the first line of their three paragraph dialogue.
In contrast TOR fully voiced their whole MMO giving each NPC a unique voice and hiring a lot of high budget voice actors to really give their game an amazing audio quality when you couple that with the classic epic Star Wars music and some pretty good sound effects. It really enhanced the game, but it also drained their budget and saw a very high price-tag game missing a lot of features that it's players really wanted and they are still scrambling to release.
I think Runescape had the most ingenious solution to this I have seen yet. Not long after the release of TOR they released a competition to be the voice of one of their characters. They posted some info on how to get a high quality sound recording and then let the community submit their clips. You can see Runescape is converting over to a fully voiced MMO but they aren't doing it with a big budget of big name voice actors. They are doing it via their community.
If I was GW I would hire on 1 person who's job is to add voice content to PFO. Let him host community competitions to get the part of voicing certain characters and sift through the submissions to find the best. If the Kickstarter proved anything, it's that PFO's community is willing to support this project. I think this move would give a lot of game enhancement for very little money, and would actually inspire a more committed fan base. Wouldn't you be more prone to continue playing a game where you voiced an NPC?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Truthfully, I'm not too concerned with having voice actors for the npc's and such. I mean, I would wager that the majority of players skip a lot of the quest text...
But, some great, high quality music and ambiance (and sound effects) can go a long way.
Also seconded, especially considering I don't find it that likely that there really will be that much consistent quest dialogue. I don't expect forager Jim to need the rats cleared from his barn, 200,000 times, as that more or less implies an absolute lack of persistence, I expect the quests to be different for every player who approaches forager Jim on a daily basis. The text can certainly change dynamically with the randomness of the enemies, hideouts etc... but the amount of recordings to try and tie voice acting to be able to randomize, is more or less unsustainable.
I also agree, the sound effects, music etc... can greatly add to the games value.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'll third it, don't waste the money on voice actors for npcs and such.
Sure if you have lots of cut-scenes ala swtor or guildwars 2 it brings a whole different dimension to the game but for what PFO is trying to be I think it can sit on the backburner to the gameplay and lets face it once most people have seen that content it's done and dusted. You attract a different crowd with sandbox games because players actually have to think (it sounds bad I know but it's true), they more then not have to create things to do themselves instead of how themeparks work with relying heavily on scripted content coming from someone else.
The thing PFO should focus on (which a lot of mmo's don't anymore) is gameplay systems, you add a proper depth to gameplay and the experience is so much more different.
They've already established a impressive (ambitious) list to build the game into and they should just keep adding to it.
In saying that I still want 7.1 and surround sound support! No point having a 3.5m long x 4m high wall with a HD projector blazing onto it with my sound setup if I can't enjoy it ^_^;
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think people are getting ahead of themselves when they make the assumption there will be very little NPC interaction. This is a sandbox but it has never claimed to take after Wurm in that all content is player created. Remember SWG, EVE, and Darkfall are all sandboxes, and all have quests with NPC interaction and dialogue. Everything I have read has strongly alluded to the fact that there will be quests.
I would challenging those making such claims to re-read this blog.
I am not claiming NPC interaction will be present anywhere near to the same level as SWTOR, but IMO that is all the more reason to voice it. That means it's less time and less of an investment. Some of you may skip it but I know I actually listened to and thoroughly enjoyed TOR's voice acting, and haven't read a single word of non-voiced quest descriptions since that game spoiled me.
I would also challenge those going on about how much it would cost to re-read my proposal. It does not include a single paid voice actor. So anyone saying "Don't waste money on voice actors..." obviously did not read a single word I wrote. It requires one employee with a mediocre knowledge of sound software, the tools to involve the community in the project, and the patience to sift through a lot of submissions. They might even be able to work on other projects or only be part-time depending on the quantity of voice acting needed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think people are getting ahead of themselves when they make the assumption there will be very little NPC interaction. This is a sandbox but it has never claimed to take after Wurm in that all content is player created. Remember SWG, EVE, and Darkfall are all sandboxes, and all have quests with NPC interaction and dialogue. Everything I have read has strongly alluded to the fact that there will be quests.
I would challenging those making such claims to re-read this blog.
I am not claiming NPC interaction will be present anywhere near to the same level as SWTOR, but IMO that is all the more reason to voice it. That means it's less time and less of an investment.
I would also challenge those going on about how much it would cost to re-read my proposal. It does not include a single paid voice actor. So anyone saying "Don't waste money on voice actors..." obviously did not read a single word I wrote. It requires one employee with a mediocre knowledge of sound software, the tools to involve the community in the project, and the patience to sift through a lot of submissions. They might even be able to work on other project or only be part-time depending on the quantity of voice acting needed.
My statement was never that there would be very little NPC interaction, nor that there wouldn't be regular quests.
I stated that the quests will not likely be the same every time, the algorythem will have to make quests based on what is currently available in the game world, on dealing with the current dungeons, incampments, infestations, wandering monsters etc... in the area. If this is indeed the case, then by the time the voices are recorded, submitted and reviewed, they are already out of date before they can even begin to be implemented.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that's a high amount of speculation. If the quests are so dynamic that you can't even have NPC descriptions remain semi-constant. To the point you can't use a series of audio clips such as:
"Thornkeep is under siege by (a)/(an) (Small band)(large group)(army) of (Trolls)(Goblins)(Minotaurs)(Orcs)! Please help us drive them back!"
Then it will require constant developer interaction to be building and rebuilding new quests all the time. Something I definitely do not think is a wise use of time in a sandbox.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan has said from the beginning that "Pathfinder Online is a hybrid sandbox/theme park-style MMO...".
That leads me to believe there will indeed be some static quests and static content like we see in other Theme Parks.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan has said from the beginning that "Pathfinder Online is a hybrid sandbox/theme park-style MMO...".
That leads me to believe there will indeed be some static quests and static content like we see in other Theme Parks.
Perhaps, but to large degrees every mention of enemies, dungeons etc... With the exception of modules I have yet to see a reference to enemies that are always there. I've seen references to wandering monsters, dungeons that appear and disappear, encampments etc... Every mention of PVE events with the exception of modules references that when things are destroyed/killed, they aren't going to pop right back up in the same spot 2 minutes later for the next band of adventurers to clear.
Ryan mentioned at least a few times that even Skyrim was less persistent than he wanted, in that while people he killed remained gone, people one or 2 towns over seemed to have little knowledge or care about it.
The general concept for modules that Ryan was mentioning concern over, was how to more or less separate the static modules from the more dynamic part of the world.
As you find and explore theme park content you should have the sense that you're accomplishing something meaningful. And there should be enough of it that everyone who wants to can engage with it. The results of those encounters should lead towards integration with the rest of the game world and create interesting moments of interaction with other players. PvE shouldn't be an isolated pursuit of just a small cadre of specialized characters; it should be something that many characters interact with as they develop and pursue their objectives.
I fail to see how anything would feel meaningful, if it resets back into place right before your eyes, like most theme park MMO's tend to do. When I purge the werewolves that are terrorizing old man jenkin's farm, I don't think I would feel like I did anything meaningful if I kill the 30 werewolves he asked for me to kill, then turn around and see the exact same number of wolves running around the woods near his farm as there were before I started. I have no problem with troubles popping up all the time, but I certainly don't want to see the same trouble hitting the same place as fast as it can be cleared.
At least from what I gather, theme park does not always = static, there may be rails of where you can and can't go, but that does not mean the ride is the same every time, or even exists after the first person rides it.
I think that's a high amount of speculation. If the quests are so dynamic that you can't even have NPC descriptions remain semi-constant. To the point you can't use a series of audio clips such as:"Thornkeep is under siege by (a)/(an) (Small band)(large group)(army) of (Trolls)(Goblins)(Minotaurs)(Orcs)! Please help us drive them back!"
Then it will require constant developer interaction to be building and rebuilding new quests all the time. Something I definitely do not think is a wise use of time in a sandbox.
Perhaps with a few dozen recordings, but in general those never flow particularly well when I hear them, especially if they are not being done by a professional, and no I don't expect large amounts of deep involved quests with lots of details and flavor text, more like the example you mentioned, or simply "our merchants are being assaulted on the X path by X, please eliminate the threat", and "I need X lbs of X to complete my new weapon/armor etc..." The types of stuff that can fit into. Maybe it is hypothetically possible to do it, but with a notable amount of variables, I imagine it sounding like the movie phone voice, with notable pauses and odd shifts in voices at each variable.
you must kill the FIFTEEN, KOBALDS, that have been haunting the NORTH pass.
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Goblin Squad Member
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CnH1xoapQ0
This isn't the best clip to illustrate this point but I didn't want to spend all night on it.
In the beginning of the video it says: "Freelancer Alpha one dash one, the is Fort Bush, you are cleared for launch."
Let me mark the variable now and see if you can guess it based off the sound quality:
Of course that voice does sound a bit robotic, but it is a space based game released in 2003.
This is not the most complex statement in the game. When an NPC is docking with a station they say something along the lines of.
"This is Junkers Green-11 to West Point Academy, I am requesting to land."
To which the station replies something along the lines of.
"This is West Point Academy to Junker Green-11, you are cleared to land, please proceed to Bay 6."
Translated into variables that is.
"This is VARIABLE VARIABLE to VARIABLE, I am requesting to land."
"This is VARIABLE to VARIABLE VARIABLE, you are cleared to land, please proceed to Bay VARIABLE."
It actually sounds pretty good. And you know what it sounds WAY better than? No voice acting at all.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do know that my wifee and I played AoC for about 2 months at release...we ended up not staying with the game, but she still compares the failure of every games music to AoC's. And...she always talks about wanting to try it again...all based off how much she liked the music. There is a lot to be said for making a good impression. On the otherhand, I can imagine many people did not like the music of AoC, so the question remains: how do you balance it?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Only games of late that I've enjoyed the music in the mmo-genre would be FFXIV. For ambient sound I'd have to give a nod to The Secret World, that game really has good immersion qualities even if the gameplay doesn't.
Guild Wars 2 is probably the close third.
Only games I never really want to be on teamspeak or mumble for because it really pulls me away from the experience.
Nihimon is correct though, know a lot of people that would debate the hell out of my choices above with poison tipped daggers given the chance but you know what art is very subjective so I just raise the middle one to them =P