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I was messing around with a Ranger build, and thought about trying to squeeze in Vicious Stomp along with the Paired Opportunists and Outflank teamwork feats.
So, a Ranger 4 / Monk 1 would be able to get IUS, Combat Reflexes, Vicious Stomp and Boon Companion. With a Wand of Magic Fang:
Pre-Combat: Walk around with a Wand of Magic Fang in hand.
Round 1: Activate wand to cast Magic Fang on one of your feet. Move up to an enemy. Have your Wolf companion move into flank, and have it attack the enemy. If it is able to hit and then trip, it provokes an attack of opportunity from you.
[Enemies' Turn:] If enemy stands up, you and the Wolf can make another attack of opportunity. If it moves, you can make your attack of opportunity, and then the wolf. If the wolf hits, it can knock the enemy prone, which provokes another attack of opportunity from you.
Round 2+: Make full attacks along with Wolf companion.
Throw in Paired Opportunists and Outflank at higher levels, and assuming the wolf can knock enemies prone, the amount of attacks per round can really start to add up.
I'm not sure if it's worth it, but it looks cool on paper. Any thoughts?
It still works as a tactic, just can't indefinitely trip is all. But its a pretty fun tactic. :) I did something similar with my inquisitor with the feather domain.
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Enthilza, you suggested "Have your Wolf companion move into flank". There's a current thread discussing that option, and the general conclusion is that "flank" is not on the list of AC commands, and the ranger would need to push the wolf (Handle Animal DC 25) to get into a flanking position.
Otherwise, I suspect thatthe feat tax (or, ahem, feet tax) for all that will keep the ranger from being more effective against groups of enemies, flying enemies, creatures larger than Medium size ...
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You cannot trip someone who is standing up with an attack of opportunity because the AoO occurs BEFORE they make their move to stand up, and being prone they can't be knocked prone again so they automatically succeed.
Chain trip builds are intentionally impossible and broken.
Oh, I agree with you. And I didn't mean to imply doing a chained trip build (if it sounded like that, then I apologize). Hence why I mentioned free attacks when the enemy stands up, and if they move away (with a non-5 ft. step) then there's even more attacks + wolf potentially knocking it prone again.
I'm mentioning it mainly because I've seen the suggestion of having Combat Reflexes, Paired Opportunists, and Outflank was a great combo; throwing Vicious Stomp in addition seems to complement things.
Enthilza, you suggested "Have your Wolf companion move into flank". There's a current thread discussing that option, and the general conclusion is that "flank" is not on the list of AC commands, and the ranger would need to push the wolf (Handle Animal DC 25) to get into a flanking position.
Otherwise, I suspect thatthe feat tax (or, ahem, feet tax) for all that will keep the ranger from being more effective against groups of enemies, flying enemies, creatures larger than Medium size ...
Hmm, that does throw a monkey wrench into my plans. And as such if would make things harder to accomplish. Hmm....
Enthilza, you suggested "Have your Wolf companion move into flank". There's a current thread discussing that option, and the general conclusion is that "flank" is not on the list of AC commands, and the ranger would need to push the wolf (Handle Animal DC 25) to get into a flanking position.
Otherwise, I suspect thatthe feat tax (or, ahem, feet tax) for all that will keep the ranger from being more effective against groups of enemies, flying enemies, creatures larger than Medium size ...
This is true except that at level 4 you can put +1 to the wolfs INT score and then its smart enough to not need animal commands. It can go flank itself at that point.
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You cannot trip someone who is standing up with an attack of opportunity because the AoO occurs BEFORE they make their move to stand up, and being prone they can't be knocked prone again so they automatically succeed.
Chain trip builds are intentionally impossible and broken.
Oh, I agree with you. And I didn't mean to imply doing a chained trip build (if it sounded like that, then I apologize). Hence why I mentioned free attacks when the enemy stands up, and if they move away (with a non-5 ft. step) then there's even more attacks + wolf potentially knocking it prone again.
I'm mentioning it mainly because I've seen the suggestion of having Combat Reflexes, Paired Opportunists, and Outflank was a great combo; throwing Vicious Stomp in addition seems to complement things.
Enthilza, you suggested "Have your Wolf companion move into flank". There's a current thread discussing that option, and the general conclusion is that "flank" is not on the list of AC commands, and the ranger would need to push the wolf (Handle Animal DC 25) to get into a flanking position.
Otherwise, I suspect thatthe feat tax (or, ahem, feet tax) for all that will keep the ranger from being more effective against groups of enemies, flying enemies, creatures larger than Medium size ...
Hmm, that does throw a monkey wrench into my plans. And as such if would make things harder to accomplish. Hmm....
Not really, simply send your wolf to a specific square (free action), move yourself into flanking position (move action), then have him attack (another free action). Same thing but easier.
Now as for the vicious stomp it's a sub-optimal build. As soon as you start dealing with flying creatures it stops working. HOWEVER if you replace the stomp with a Fear effect (rogue-Thug archetype works) and force your target to flee it does the same thing and works much longer then the stomp with a much shorter feat chain to do it.
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Not really, simply send your wolf to a specific square (free action), move yourself into flanking position (move action), then have him attack (another free action). Same thing but easier.
Yeah, this would work. Thanks.
Now as for the vicious stomp it's a sub-optimal build. As soon as you start dealing with flying creatures it stops working. HOWEVER if you replace the stomp with a Fear effect (rogue-Thug archetype works) and force your target to flee it does the same thing and works much longer then the stomp with a much shorter feat chain to do it.
True with regards to the flying creatures. I haven't played high level Pathfinder yet, but my Living Greyhawk days didn't encounter many flying creatures by level 12 (which is what I'm aiming for, since I'm thinking of using this as a PFS character). I wonder by what level tripping stops being an effective tactic in Pathfinder...
Not really, simply send your wolf to a specific square (free action), move yourself into flanking position (move action), then have him attack (another free action). Same thing but easier.Yeah, this would work. Thanks.
Now as for the vicious stomp it's a sub-optimal build. As soon as you start dealing with flying creatures it stops working. HOWEVER if you replace the stomp with a Fear effect (rogue-Thug archetype works) and force your target to flee it does the same thing and works much longer then the stomp with a much shorter feat chain to do it.True with regards to the flying creatures. I haven't played high level Pathfinder yet, but my Living Greyhawk days didn't encounter many flying creatures by level 12 (which is what I'm aiming for, since I'm thinking of using this as a PFS character). I wonder by what level tripping stops being an effective tactic in Pathfinder...
I do not know what region you played in but I played LG and need to fly by level 6 or so.
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I do not know what region you played in but I played LG and need to fly by level 6 or so.
I played in the Ket region, where doing lethal damage or killing someone within Ket got you sent to the stocks and whipped. Unless you killed an Elf, then you might have to pay a fine...
Perhaps it was just the regional modules I played, where flight wasn't all that necessary. Helpful? Sure. But not required.
In fact, I remember I broke one interactive because I bought the Giant Owl mount from Red Hand of Doom (flying the unconcious Beygraf who had anti-magic field up from one area to the main city where he would be safe). Best 5,000 gp I ever spent.
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While some have suggested you need to push your AC to make it flank, there has been no conclusive evidence either way.
Either it's implicitly part of attacking, or you can teach your AC a "flank" trick, because the list of tricks given in Handle Animal are just examples of the entire wealth of tricks you could feasibly give an AC.
Hmm, makes sense that if you need to teach your AC some tricks to get them to attack creatures they normally would not, teaching them a trick to get them to attack in a way they normally would not makes sense.