Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Valkenr, wouldn't it just be necessary to have investors or a publisher just to have the capital for the project? I figure you'd be knowledgeable about the real world costs of these kinds of projects, though I can't imagine companies have to disclose that info. It doesn't turn up to a quick search.
@ Bromton I doubt that Mr. Dancey and Ms. Stevens, having been given six times what they asked for, would harm the good will they have with their customers by passing the hat again. Believe me, I am a loyal customer and love Paizo's products, but I'd find that a bit much, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. An investor who simply gives you money does so expecting an ROI, and you still have a fiduciary responsibility to an investor. I'd say a Kickstarter project has an analogous responsibility. Fans are throwing their support behind the project, and in doing so showing faith these folks can get it done. Everyone who ponied up even a buck basically gave them a vote of confidence to make it happen.
Plus, these are smart professionals who know their business.
Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah... I would kick in for another kickstarter for sure if they were in desperate straights and thinking of selling out. It would really harm their reputation though.
What I really wouldn't mind seeing even right away though is a cash shop. Maps for areas in-game. Goblinworks memorabilia. As someone else suggested goblin plush toys.
I'm not a super fanboy but I'm a sucker for cool old fashioned looking stuff and things with practical use. A nice weathered looking map of the River Kingdoms marked up high enough to generate some decent funds wouldn't be passing the hat again to me... it would be an appreciated service.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah... I would kick in for another kickstarter for sure if they were in desperate straights and thinking of selling out. It would really harm their reputation though.
What I really wouldn't mind seeing even right away though is a cash shop. Maps for areas in-game. Goblinworks memorabilia. As someone else suggested goblin plush toys.
I'm not a super fanboy but I'm a sucker for cool old fashioned looking stuff and things with practical use. A nice weathered looking map of the River Kingdoms marked up high enough to generate some decent funds wouldn't be passing the hat again to me... it would be an appreciated service.
Speaking of maps, once we know the region and how it breaks down, I'll be using hexmapper to keep an up to date map of the region. You could print that off if you like ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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No I am not sure it would be a good idea, for several reasons:
1. Kickstarter has to produce a stipulated end product, along those lines I believe.
2. Investors are the only realistic option to fully fund an mmo: Cost in millions & up.
3. Crowd funding "fatigue" would kick in especially without a foreseeable & tangible end product I guess.
4. Original Kickstarter needs to be delivered first. Otherwise it could be considered "greed"-driven vs "goodwill-driven" crowd funding is something to avoid.
The current support demonstrates sales is a huge boost to investors already & tech demo is now needed to convince more people or assure people either way. A second Kickstarter could be aimed for something to do with the actual mmorpg release. I'm not sure milking another tie-in between PF & PfO would be sensible without more tech, design, polish from the mmorpg itself and how convincing that is as standalone product?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would be willing to support another Kickstarter project in two scenarios:
1. They were getting funding for the actual game, and were offering lifetime subscriptions at about the $500 level.
2. They were gauging support for a very elaborate character generator, and were going to give supporters that generator to use and export models that could later be imported into the actual game.
I'm sure there are other Kickstarter projects I would be willing to support, but the nature of the project being funded would certainly be important to me. The idea of a Kickstarter every 3 months or so, with the sole goal of increasing Goblinworks' coffers, is not something I would feel comfortable supporting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So it looks like most people object to general fund raising so far. I like the notion of Buying character generation options IE paying for development time of new races (Goblins) or subraces perhaps new hair and body styles and tattoos general appearance options.
So we should vote on what we want expanded or added to the game at or after start.
1. Body generation options Fat to Muscleman, short to tall, hair colors and styles Tattoos piercings eye shape placement and color, scars and wrinkles, nail colors too.
2. Races what kind of extra races and subraces do you want at the start of PFO or soon after do you want? Cat people? Lupines? Goblins, Birdmen, and so on.
3. Clothing and Bling artistic work in general to improve the game what would you spend your money and vote on?
4. Will you spend cash for in game vehicles chariots, wagons, horses, battle tigers, bears, lions, Griffons, Pegussus (sp).
5. Anything that I forgot that is just so cool it must be added?
Pay for features... that is an interesting concept for sure. I might do it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I want to clarify, are you asking if we would pay extra so GW can develop these extras to be bought in game? Or are we paying to actually own them in-game?
Honestly, I am not sure if I am a fan of either. Yes, can understand paying money for extra character slots, maybe for some extra clothing bling (not affecting anything mechanically stat-wise), or maybe some added tattoos (again, just aesthetics).
But I don't want them to go overboard, either. I feel the addition of things like new vehicles, races, structure options should be developed where it is available to all at base subscription cost. Because adding these options are going to have an actual in-game impact.
If they add vehicles, I hope it gives them a larger selection of vehicles that are actually beneficial in-game, they just don't look different. Same with races, they most likely will have stat bonuses or new abilities. With new structures, some may hold up better to a siege.
All of these can have in-game mechanical factors. I feel things like that should be available to all, coming out of subscription money. I don't want the game to turn into whoever makes the most money (real life) has the nicest, strongest items in-game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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They asked for 50,000 and got 300,000. The next step should be to fix investor suppor.
After all, they received 250 000 more than they anticipated, and we will both buy and subscribe to the finished product
They raised 250,000 more than the stated goal. That doesn't mean the anticipated amount of fundraising was that amount. Kickstarter themselves tells you to aim low in hopes of building enthusiasm when you pass it. The entire intent is to blow through several "stretch goals".
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Goblin Squad Member
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They raised 250,000 more than the stated goal. That doesn't mean the anticipated amount of fundraising was that amount. Kickstarter themselves tells you to aim low in hopes of building enthusiasm when you pass it. The entire intent is to blow through several "stretch goals".They asked for 50,000 and got 300,000. The next step should be to fix investor suppor.
After all, they received 250 000 more than they anticipated, and we will both buy and subscribe to the finished product
I think 350k would have been their top-top target (iirc from a post ie x7 the stated target) so I think the eventual result is near enough if not "most excellent", then definitely "excellent" : >1/4 mil (deductions for payment processing, ks, no-shows etc); >4k pledges; x6 target.
They've milked those guys for dungeons, so time to start making some cheese for market!
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Goblin Squad Member
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A couple of comments, just so we're all on the same page.
The Kickstarter was for the Technology Demo Only. We were super, super clear about that - to avoid any potential misunderstandings. The money we raised is being used to build the Tech Demo, not the eventual full MMO.
Unless there's some unexpected NDA complication, I expect we'll make a fairly full accounting of how that money was spent once the Tech Demo is complete. I think it will be an eye-opening thing for a lot of people to see how much even a very small MMO project costs.
RyanD
They've milked those guys for dungeons, so time to start making some cheese for market!
Munster cheese?