My group will soon be starting the Kingmaker AP in our homebrew setting and I was wondering if anyone could help with ideas for my build.. I want to play a character inspired by the ancient Greek Hoplites, but more the cultured Athenians than the warlike Spartans from the 300 movie. He doesn't need to be highly optimised by any stretch of the imagination but he does need to contribute in combat. A few specific things I'd like my character to do:
- fight with a spear and shield - I think the Shaft and Shield feat may well come in handy.
- Wear a breastplate - heavy armour doesn't fit my theme.
- have some sort of tactical ability to help his party.
- speak well and have some intelligence
- Oratory would be nice to have when we get to the Kingdom building part.
We're using 20 point buy and starting at level 1. The other characters that I know about are:
- Human Paladin of Sarenrae
- Human Cavalier, Order of the Cockatrice
- Elf Alchemist
- One unknown...
My inital thoughts were Fighter with the Tactician or Phalanx Soldier archetype, or Cavalier (Order of the Tome). I really like the Cavalier class for the Tactician, Order and Challenge features, although the mount isn't something I need for this character. However, we've already got two heavy hitters for our front line so I'm wondering about doing a Bard, Oracle or Cleric who can do other stuff but still fight. I'm also thinking about multi-classing but I can't decide what would be best to start in.
Any suggestions would be most welcome!
If you're a citizen, as opposed to regular army(?), a Bard would fit fine - representing your trade (as defined by your skills) is the most important thing to you, and fighting (as a member of the militia, for example) is just something you do as a normal citizen. You could build the backstory around a young, but aspiring politician (represented by ranks in oratory, diplomacy, ect). To prove yourself (either willingly or unwillingly) you are put into the miltia, and now fight in the hoplite way. You couldn't wear breastplate without the 3.5 feat Battle Caster which lets you wear one heavier armor without arcane failure. The spells and music, unfortunately, is not something really needed.
Try working out something with your GM based on the Lore Warden archetype, and adding in medium armor and shields (but not tower shields).
Ideas are good. Dont commit yourself to the Phalanx fighter in the APG if you dread giving up some Fighter abilities. Build the Build using feats and your flavor.
BTW, Athens was just as warlike as the Spartans. The Spartans just got the bad P.R. (They were portrayed as "hicks" in the contemptory literature)
For a hoplite the phalanx-soldier is perfect, one of the best archetypes IMHO, though the Shaft and Shield feat makes it somewhat obsolete. My first thought is that your group may lack ranged capability, as well as wilderness skills. Consider ranger, throwing spears or amentums.
Anyways, with two charismatic fighter/leader characters you want to do a third ?
PS: Your having a Pally, an official bastard and an elf in one group ? ;P
|
No need to waste a feat on that...Go Phalanx Fighter for 3 levels, and then switch to bard for either
A) 3 levels if you want to be more fightery
or
B) 5 levels if you want to be more bardy and lose more BAB
Str 16 (+2 human)
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 10
Your requirements:
-fight with a spear and shield. I think the Shaft and Shield feat may well come in handy.
Covered, don't waste a feat.
-Wear a breastplate. Heavy armour doesn't fit my theme.
K.
-Have some sort of tactical ability to help his party. Speak well and have some intelligence. Oratory would be nice to have when we get to the Kingdom building part.
Character has intelligence enough to qualify for feats, combine that with bard skill points and class skill bonuses and you'll probably be the smartest most well spoken fighter at the table. You won't be casting any spells, but Hoplites didn't do that anyway. Can still use wands though.
Feat wise with the Fighter 3/Bard 3/Fighter X build..you could do something like this:
1st: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip (Human), Power Attack (Fighter)
2nd: Improved Shield Bash (Fighter)
3rd: Combat Reflexes
5th: Two Weapon Fighting
7th: Shield Slam, Greater Trip (Fighter)
The idea being to use a reach spear in one hand, preferably with the trip quality (Guisarme, Halberd..not Hoplite I know) and then try to keep people at reach. If they come within 5' you can slam them with the shield. After 7th level you can use it to knock them back and then TWF to trip them and stab them with the spear. Damage won't be great, but you'll be annoying and relatively hard to kill.
Athenians et al = Warriors
Spartans = Fighters
imho
OR
You take two levels of Lore warden, maybe 3 if you want.
"Near and far" and "shaft and shield" help a lot with fighting.
You could spend feats on exotic weapon proficiency fauchard and tower shields.
Then go bard arcane duelist or plain bard.
Arcane strike is really nice for you then, also spear dancer feat.
If it helps inspire at all...
The underpinning of the phalanx is the shield. It almost doesn't matter if a soldier loses his weapon during combat, as long as he keeps his shield. A soldier who loses their shield becomes a liability to the men next to him.
I know you said Athens, not Sparta, but supposedly Spartan women had a traditional farewell for their departing soldiers:
"With it or on it"
A soldier who returned home without his shield was branded a coward and assumed to have fled from battle.
A possible option is the Sacred Shield archetype for Paladin. You're not focusing on dealing damage, but mitigating the incoming damage for the party. 4th level the Holy Shield ability is great if you maintain a tight formation with the paladin in the middle. At 7th level you get access to Shield Other spell, which is awesome for Paladins. You've got d10 HD so you can absorb the extra damage and LoH to help keep yourself topped off.
You could throw in one level of cavalier, Emissary archetype to move at full speed while wearing medium armor.
|
Sardis was land-locked and the Athenian contingent was small to begin with during the Ionian Revolt. The Athenian navy becomes a professional organisation following the conclusion of the Persian Wars. From 478 on-wards the Athenian naval forces are better trained and more experienced. Following the Battle of the Eurymedon River, Athens is the naval power in the Aegean.
Thebes only defeated the Spartans when they had been weakened by the Peloponnesian Wars. By 371 BC, there was not a huge number of Spartiates left (generalising here, as tactics played a significant part in the Theban victory over the Spartans and deserves a far more in-depth analysis). The simple fact remains that the Spartans lived a martial lifestyle from the age of 7, entering the agoge, and proved themselves on the battlefield throughout the 5th century BC.
Athenians = fighters/warriors (many Athenians were highly trained and experienced)
Spartans = fighters (small male population that focused primarily on combat training and were supported by the state)
IMO
Spartan superiority was far from a myth. Yes, it has been glorified in modern times, but the Spartiates could, and did, kick butt.
I thought they left them " for the gods" or rather for their thralls to pick up should the children survive the night out in the hills, as not to loose the workforce. They also had a semi- polyandry, where not only widows were " taken care " of, but women could choose another man who came home with more honor or loot. IIRC spartian women DID have quite a bit more standing than those of the more patriachial athens, which made them all the more suspect.
But generally, the whole spartian society of that particular time was geared to producing the finest foot-soldiers possible. By all accounts they were succeeding pretty well.
The athens were more strategically/politically inclined an were way more successfull in the long run.
Thank you everyone for your suggestions. Keep 'em coming... You've all given me a great deal to think about. The Bard and Fighter builds could definitely work nicely.
Magiskot's suggestion of the lame battle Oracle is neat too, perhaps using a Falcata (or kopis as the Greeks called it) rather than a spear since I wouldn't have so many feats. On the other hand, a Cleric might be better given that we already have a lot of Charismtic characters. It has the skills, weapons and armour proficiencies that I need, and fills a different niche in the party. Not sure what Domains would suit, maybe war, community or law? Perhaps multi-classing is the answer. Any thoughts are welcome!
As far as the historical debate goes, I'm with Chubbs McGee. What he said, is what I remember from studying the Greeks - admittedly that was over a decade ago.
Although I picture my character as an Athneian - think a sort of young Pericles if you're into classical history! - I'm not too hung up on the Athens/Sparta/other Greek thing. After all, this is going to be a Greek character in a medieval fantasy world, so I'm not going to worry about the finer points of historical accuracy, just the broad strokes. Actually for a miniature I'm thinking about something from the Wargods of Olympus range - probably one of the Spartan figures. They're so awesome! Mind you the Mycenean figures look smart too but I don't know whether I'll be able to get them easily in the UK.
Magikot, rather belatedly but thank you for an awesome build! I had decided to go with Bard 2/ Fighter 2 for the first four levels but I'm very tempted by your battle Oracle!