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Okay... I'll bite... what's a summoner guide? (And why would someone be working on one?)
Is it a prestige class? An archetype? Or something completely different from either of these concepts/ideas?
I was curious when I saw this query, but saw nothing to go along with it.
~Dean
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The minstrel wyrm: he means the summoner base class.
Black_Lantern, I just started working on one.
Step 1) Play a Master Summoner
Step 1.5) Take Improved Init at first level.
Step 2) Make your Eidolon a skill monkey with Perception, stealth, UMD, and Sense Motive. Give him Flight ASAP. Give him Wands to use at a high enough level.
Step 3) Use your Eidolon when necessary; flood the battlefield otherwise.
Step 4) Take Superior Summons at level 3.
Step 5) Watch the GM weep.
And I just finished my summoner guide.
I hope you enjoy it.
He's looking for an Optimization Guide for the Summoner Class from the APG.
Edit: Cheapy's guide works pretty well too.
I just wanted tips and tricks to make him seem decent. I was thinking of getting large as an evolution for my elly but then he would have 24 strength at 2 level. I think that my DM would just not allow me to play a summoner if I did that.
Oh.
A guide to playing summoners.
Now I get it. :)
Carry on.
I have to say that a nice guide. With rather impressive illustrations.He's looking for an Optimization Guide for the Summoner Class from the APG.
Mine's better.
Mine's better.I have to say that a nice guide. With rather impressive illustrations.He's looking for an Optimization Guide for the Summoner Class from the APG.
Cheapy I just want tips to make my character slightly better and have a foundation on how to build him properly. Not make my DM ban my character or fireball my summons.
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I just wanted tips and tricks to make him seem decent. I was thinking of getting large as an evolution for my elly but then he would have 24 strength at 2 level. I think that my DM would just not allow me to play a summoner if I did that.He's looking for an Optimization Guide for the Summoner Class from the APG.
Edit: Cheapy's guide works pretty well too.
To make him large, you need to be 8th level to give that 4 point evolution to your Eidolon ;) So don't worry... you can't do it at 2nd anyway.
Depending on base form, Reach, possibly pounce, improved damage and improved natural armor are all good choices for a combat-based Eidolon.
Cheapy I just want tips to make my character slightly better and have a foundation on how to build him properly. Not make my DM ban my character or fireball my summons.Mine's better.I have to say that a nice guide. With rather impressive illustrations.He's looking for an Optimization Guide for the Summoner Class from the APG.
Well, you should've said so!
Does your DM allow 3rd party stuff? Like WotC or Super Genius?
I just wanted tips and tricks to make him seem decent. I was thinking of getting large as an evolution for my elly but then he would have 24 strength at 2 level. I think that my DM would just not allow me to play a summoner if I did that.He's looking for an Optimization Guide for the Summoner Class from the APG.
Edit: Cheapy's guide works pretty well too.
To make him large, you need to be 8th level to give that 4 point evolution to your Eidolon ;) So don't worry... you can't do it at 2nd anyway.
Depending on base form, Reach, possibly pounce, improved damage and improved natural armor are all good choices for a combat-based Eidolon.
Thank you so much for clarifying that! I feel so much better.
Cheapy I just want tips to make my character slightly better and have a foundation on how to build him properly. Not make my DM ban my character or fireball my summons.Mine's better.I have to say that a nice guide. With rather impressive illustrations.He's looking for an Optimization Guide for the Summoner Class from the APG.
Well, you should've said so!
Does your DM allow 3rd party stuff? Like WotC or Super Genius?
Nope.
I just don't want to go off the linked guide because it's outdated and doesn't focus on the elly as much.
[
I just don't want to go off the linked guide because it's outdated and doesn't focus on the elly as much.
That's because there's so much you cna do with it. So much in fact that I've done work towards an all summoner game. I fully expect them to do well.
Have you looked at the suggested builds from Ultimate Magic?
Have you looked at the suggested builds from Ultimate Magic?
Hm, I'm going to work towards a gargoyle. Perhaps give him +8 to perception to watch over my kid summoner.
Have you looked at the suggested builds from Ultimate Magic?Hm, I'm going to work towards a gargoyle. Perhaps give him +8 to perception to watch over my kid summoner.
Remember that you can completely re-do him every time you level.
More often if you are an Evolutionist.
The minstrel wyrm: he means the summoner base class.
Black_Lantern, I just started working on one.
Step 1) Play a Master Summoner
Step 1.5) Take Improved Init at first level.
Step 2) Make your Eidolon a skill monkey with Perception, stealth, UMD, and Sense Motive. Give him Flight ASAP. Give him Wands to use at a high enough level.
Step 3) Use your Eidolon when necessary; flood the battlefield otherwise.
Step 4) Take Superior Summons at level 3.
Step 5) Watch the GM weep.
And I just finished my summoner guide.
I hope you enjoy it.
Don't forget to spend an evo point on your Eidolon for Skilled (Profession: Butler). Someone has to make tea while your summoned mons fight the other mons.
Don't forget to spend an evo point on your Eidolon for Skilled (Profession: Butler). Someone has to make tea while your summoned mons fight the other mons.The minstrel wyrm: he means the summoner base class.
Black_Lantern, I just started working on one.
Step 1) Play a Master Summoner
Step 1.5) Take Improved Init at first level.
Step 2) Make your Eidolon a skill monkey with Perception, stealth, UMD, and Sense Motive. Give him Flight ASAP. Give him Wands to use at a high enough level.
Step 3) Use your Eidolon when necessary; flood the battlefield otherwise.
Step 4) Take Superior Summons at level 3.
Step 5) Watch the GM weep.
And I just finished my summoner guide.
I hope you enjoy it.
You made me laugh.
The minstrel wyrm: he means the summoner base class.
Black_Lantern, I just started working on one.
Step 1) Play a Master Summoner
Step 1.5) Take Improved Init at first level.
Step 2) Make your Eidolon a skill monkey with Perception, stealth, UMD, and Sense Motive. Give him Flight ASAP. Give him Wands to use at a high enough level.
Step 3) Use your Eidolon when necessary; flood the battlefield otherwise.
Step 4) Take Superior Summons at level 3.
Step 5) Watch the GM weep.
And I just finished my summoner guide.
I hope you enjoy it.
Cheapy now you're making me think of having 3 to 4 celestial dogs at level three with +8 init. +5 to hit with each 1d6+5 plus trip? Holy crap. Also may I ask why the hell do riding dogs have more health then my eidolon at first level and the same at second level?
I prefer celestial eagles, solely due to the three attacks they get. If you have a bard, or some way to buff them all, they're really nasty.
I prefer celestial eagles, solely due to the three attacks they get. If you have a bard, or some way to buff them all, they're really nasty.
They don't seem to do as much damage though. The mobility is nice though. I think that it's dumb for a dog to have more health than the eidolon at any point. They should really reconsider the health mechanic on animal companions and eidolons.
Tark, I designed much of a 4 Summoner party. Didn't officially finish because I designed most of the relatively hard and out of the box stuff already and didn't see as much of a challenge in the rest of it. That and that one of the others was basically the max damage Biped I already designed beforehand anyway.
The two builds are in the linked Summoner guide under User Contributed builds. One is a Gnome Summoner focusing on Con (even above Cha) with a Con maxed Eidolon with Antagonize, Dazzling Display, and Con Poison. He has Skilled: Intimidate and Skilled: Diplomacy to help Antagonize. Another is a Halfling Summoner riding a Serpentine Eidolon that's a functional Rogue. Two hands and Skilled: Perception, Skilled: Disable Device, Skilled: Stealth, and Skilled: Acrobatics. Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers, and Trip (Bite) helps with battlefield control as well.
Good times.
The minstrel wyrm: he means the summoner base class.
Black_Lantern, I just started working on one.
Step 1) Play a Master Summoner
Step 1.5) Take Improved Init at first level.
Step 2) Make your Eidolon a skill monkey with Perception, stealth, UMD, and Sense Motive. Give him Flight ASAP. Give him Wands to use at a high enough level.
Step 3) Use your Eidolon when necessary; flood the battlefield otherwise.
Step 4) Take Superior Summons at level 3.
Step 5) Watch the GM weep.
And I just finished my summoner guide.
I hope you enjoy it.
Where is it?
Where is it?The minstrel wyrm: he means the summoner base class.
Black_Lantern, I just started working on one.
Step 1) Play a Master Summoner
Step 1.5) Take Improved Init at first level.
Step 2) Make your Eidolon a skill monkey with Perception, stealth, UMD, and Sense Motive. Give him Flight ASAP. Give him Wands to use at a high enough level.
Step 3) Use your Eidolon when necessary; flood the battlefield otherwise.
Step 4) Take Superior Summons at level 3.
Step 5) Watch the GM weep.
And I just finished my summoner guide.
I hope you enjoy it.
You're looking at it, my friend.
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I tend to prefer both regular summoners and synthasists, both of whom do a WAY better job of bringing GMs to tears. Actually, for board flooders I prefer Evangalist clerics of fur domain, who get Moonlight Summons and Sacred Summons (instant summons with free blindfighting), as well as the ability to buff them (and his animal companion) to the gills.
I tend to prefer both regular summoners and synthasists, both of whom do a WAY better job of bringing GMs to tears. Actually, for board flooders I prefer Evangalist clerics of fur domain, who get Moonlight Summons and Sacred Summons (instant summons with free blindfighting), as well as the ability to buff them (and his animal companion) to the gills.
They don't get 9-10 free summon monster spells per day that last for minutes per level. Don't get me wrong, bardic performance is amazing. But it doesn't really beat the minutes per level or free summons that a Master Summon will have. With one casting of Summon Monster V, you can easily expect 1d4+2 (with Superior Summoning) Lantern Archons that last for 9 minutes. They can cover 240 feet a round, or a mile in 2.2 minutes. They can cover 4 miles in the time they are summoned, and they will still get something like 2 rounds of action. With that kind of ability, you barely have to leave camp. Just use 9 of your SLAs, and you have 40.5 lantern archons that can easily move 3 miles and destroy everything. If they all hit, that'll be about 140 defenses ignoring damage a round. So, they've killed the big bad mithral golem while you were drinking your morning tea.
An evangelist can't do that :)
Although the same idea of that build is what inspired the Celestial Commander from here!
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No, but at level 9 said Evangalist can summon d4+2 lantern archons too (standard actions) then give them +2 to hit and damage, also ignoring that DR, in the same round. And mine can hit invisible peeps thanks to their free blindfighting. So ha! At 11 we get. +3 to hit / +3+d6 damage on those same guys. And I get more spells, better saves, and a better animal companion. So ha!
40 Lantern Archons is better than 4.5 buffed ones :)
You can afford to just have them shoot their lazerz everywhere to hit any invisible creatures.
When playtesting that archetype I mentioned, I was worshipping Desna, so the GM thought it made sense for me to be able to take Starlight Summons. Best of both worlds!
Mine's better.I have to say that a nice guide. With rather impressive illustrations.He's looking for an Optimization Guide for the Summoner Class from the APG.
It will be better when you add some decent graphics to it.