My main campaign is kicking back off in a few days, having taken a break for summer between college semesters, and I was thinking back on what all has gone down since we started. It's been brought up a few times, but we've never really talked about it.
Roughly, we've spent 1 year of in-game time and are now level 7, after starting at 1. And that's with quite a bit of downtime, because we use scaled maps and follow the RAW on travel, which has been mostly done by horse and foot - and we've had to travel plenty. Really, if given better circumstances, we could have easily gotten to 7 MUCH faster, in a small percentage of the time.
There are multiple reasons I don't like this, because what the hell has the rest of the world been doing when I can hit 7 in a year, yet even generals that probably have been in their respective armies for decades are stat'd up as fighter 11.
I know that PCs are "heroes" and thus above the common man, but a general in an army would more be a "PC" - not being played by a character but still a man among men. I mean, they do have 11 fighter class levels.
Is there any sort of system that anyone uses to make sense of this? I dunno what would work. Playing by some kind of "cannot level X times in Y years" or something would be terrible, but I like for my roleplay experience to be more immersive. "Oh, hey, McRogue, haven't seen you in like a year, since you got that first class level of yours. How ya been? What's that you say? You're level 10!? But your old bandit lord is only level 12, and he's been at this since for twenty years!
Anyway, I think I'm rambling at this point, but I'm just trying to see if anyone has found a fix.
Our group is considering starting off with the fast XP column and switching to medium or slow at set points, such as fast to level 7, then switch to one of the slower columns.
Another way to avoid feeling like your characters are zooming up in level while the rest of the world was eating breakfast is to put time jumps in between adventures.
Maybe start off a new one with, "It's been three years since you all were together, and now you find yourselves once more at the Emerald Dragon Tavern, discussing shaking off the rust and hitting the adventure trail again..."
As to that general, he might be a level 11 fighter, but he probably quit fighting individual combats some time ago, and thus quit advancing in class. It doesn't mean he shouldn't have levels in "military leader" or something that players don't get.
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Personally I tend to leave mechanics on the battlefield. Sure social situations have DCs and such but I leave that up to my GM to worry about. Its an instant immersion breaker for me to start thinking in terms like, "well he is a level 2 commoner there is no way the DC will be higher than X on my intimidate attempt so I pretty much have this in the bag." I never ever ask my GM, "what level is that guy?" I just go with the story and levels are just the mechanical aspect of my character's abilities. The NPCs are just characters in the story and I really don't need to know their levels. I trust my GM to give me a fair shake. I recommend thinking less about the rules during the role play portion of the game.I think that would be helpful. I understand some folks are married to the rules so this approach may seem a bit exotic, but I have had much more fun since I learned to let go.
The level 11 general put advenutring behind him when he room his post. Unless his country is in a constant warlike state it is unlikely that he is putting his skills to the test and improving himself. He is now in a stagnant state of being where he is hardly gaining experience anymore while all these young adventurers are running around risking their lives and getting stronger, faster, and smarter. Learning to harass their powers and do more with them then they ever imagined.
The general example was just one aspect of it.
Consider more what the "other" (meaning, ones you have or have yet to play) PCs in the world are doing.
Or heck, look at your own character.
I'm playing a paladin in my campaign. He started off as 27, level 1. Now at 28, he's level 7. Do you see the problem? Sure, his back story includes training and studying up to 27, but it had to be relatively lax training for him to be able to advance 7 years after he set started adventuring. Given, he is a paladin, thus divine inspired, so you can chalk it up to that, but that doesn't really answer for all the other classes. With advancement so fast, the old man level 14 wizard who's slightly off his rocker but incredibly cunning isn't some crazy powerful dude because he's been doing this all his life - in comparison to PCs, he's a slug in a footrace, he just started earlier.
I thought about comparing it to gaining wealth in today's world. I realized you had people who came from no where and popped up with billions of dollars due to an idea they could sell - Facebook, eBay about a decade ago, heck, even Pet Rocks apparently made a killing. These people exceeded their elders in wealth who had been working for years and years of their lives. That made more sense to me. Then I realized that being able to sell an idea does not equate to learning to cast Fireball or being able to wildshape. That would take very specific control over one's body and mind, something that ought to take years to harness.
Kantrip: My DM stated at the start we would be on fast until 7, then swap to normal, then probably later to slow. He had intended to do this at the start, but when we realized we had gained so many levels so quickly of in-game time, it supported his decision. I don't mind it whatsoever, I care more about the unrealistic nature of the rate of leveling.
Pan: Well, I do, too. I don't ask for DCs or levels for social skill checks or anything. But can you not see how you're going from nobody to epic level (which is generally seen as demi-god status) in probably a decade's time? Your advancement never comes close to others, because that would mean the entire world is super powerful. That BBEG wizard who has been plotting this scheme for decades? He's level 11. PC's growth FAR exceeds anyone else (including, as I stated above, your previous and upcoming PCs, up until the time you take control of them). This, to me, is just as much of an immersion breaker as asking what Guardsman Bob's level is so I can calculate my chances of diplomacy.
This is one of the major disconnects between the expectations of the classic game and the way everyone has ALWAYS played it. The game assumes LOTS of downtime. Not just travel time, but months where you just do other stuff. The fighter trains, the bard goes into politics and the casters research and craft. Thats why these things take so darn long, because the game assumes there are months if not years between adventures. And by adventure I mean a handful of sessions (maybe like 4) then months and months of in game downtime, then 3-4 sessions worth of adventuring, then months and months of downtime
The reason for this is the 3-4 encounters per day expectation is not sustainable. Both in game, and in rational terms. If you adventure every day of your life you will get to 20 in literally no time. But actual people cant do that. Even proffessional soldiers become beyond exhausted fighting more then a few times in a single month.
On the flip side, no one has ever done this. DM's plan vast plots that have dire and impending events, and the players rush to meet the challenges. This is exciting story telling, but the way the game operates makes it completely irrational in game and in terms of what living beings ought to be capable of. Almost the whole world, even soldiers, live boring uninteresting lives 99% of the time. So they level much slower then the pure insanity that is the lives of the PCs.
So really you have a choice, build the base assumptions of the game back into your story in terms of down time, accept that people will level in game terms relatively quickly, and that the heroes are the exception rather then the rule (normal sane people dont go from fight to fight to fight like adventurers do), or slow xp progression to a crawl.
Rapid levelling is the reward for risking death daily. :P
CR appropriate challenges.
The PCs get them nicely handed to them, kolkotroni makes great points, but this is one that no-one else mentioned.
That general leads his army of level 1 warriors against an army of level 1 warriors, sure he could go kill a few, but he won't get much benefit out of it, and he's more useful leading the battle from the command tents and using his experience and expertise to win the battle, and maybe the war.
Same is true for many examples, NPCs that grow, don't always face a linear increase in challenges like PCs. I'd certainly stop granting experience, or lessen it dramatically for facing the same easy challenges alot. After the highway man has robbed his 20th foppish courtier, he's not really learning anything new.
Levels are an abstraction. Perhaps the general peaked at level 11 and cannot progress any further simply because that's as good as he'll ever get? Young PC's are just "unleashing" their potential, and the death-defying adventures they embark on hone their skills that they have been practicing in relative safety to a fine point.
Level advancement is just an abstraction. You have to find an abstract way to rationalize levels in a world where everyone has them. We don't have levels in the real world. Good luck!
CR appropriate challenges.
The PCs get them nicely handed to them, kolkotroni makes great points, but this is one that no-one else mentioned.
That general leads his army of level 1 warriors against an army of level 1 warriors, sure he could go kill a few, but he won't get much benefit out of it, and he's more useful leading the battle from the command tents and using his experience and expertise to win the battle, and maybe the war.
Same is true for many examples, NPCs that grow, don't always face a linear increase in challenges like PCs. I'd certainly stop granting experience, or lessen it dramatically for facing the same easy challenges alot. After the highway man has robbed his 20th foppish courtier, he's not really learning anything new.
In fact most sane people go out of their way to when they have encounters, make the CR very VERY low. The highway robber? He has 10 buddies help him ambush the 1st level commoner merchants. That drops the relative cr to nothing. Why? He doesnt want to risk death? The crimelord brings 20 guys to challenge his rival and probably does very little fighting himself. Real people avoid 'fair fights' as best as they are able, because that means a very real risk of death. Most people dont like risking death, and thus get very little XP over the course of their lives. The PC's brave literally psychotic levels of danger on a daily basis.
In fact most sane people go out of their way to when they have encounters, make the CR very VERY low. The highway robber? He has 10 buddies help him ambush the 1st level commoner merchants. That drops the relative cr to nothing. Why? He doesnt want to risk death? The crimelord brings 20 guys to challenge his rival and probably does very little fighting himself. Real people avoid 'fair fights' as best as they are able, because that means a very real risk of death. Most people dont like risking death, and thus get very little XP over the course of their lives. The PC's brave literally psychotic levels of danger on a daily basis.CR appropriate challenges.
The PCs get them nicely handed to them, kolkotroni makes great points, but this is one that no-one else mentioned.
That general leads his army of level 1 warriors against an army of level 1 warriors, sure he could go kill a few, but he won't get much benefit out of it, and he's more useful leading the battle from the command tents and using his experience and expertise to win the battle, and maybe the war.
Same is true for many examples, NPCs that grow, don't always face a linear increase in challenges like PCs. I'd certainly stop granting experience, or lessen it dramatically for facing the same easy challenges alot. After the highway man has robbed his 20th foppish courtier, he's not really learning anything new.
Another fantastic thoguht. He didn't get to be the general by aking sure his forces were close in power to his foes, he got there by winning.