Prepping a module for Gen Con


GM Discussion

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Ok, so where would I ask questions about one of the modules without having it available for public consumption?

One of the parts of First Steps Part I has some timing issues I wanted to see how others were dealing with...

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Andrew Christian wrote:

Ok, so where would I ask questions about one of the modules without having it available for public consumption?

One of the parts of First Steps Part I has some timing issues I wanted to see how others were dealing with...

Which part?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Dragnmoon wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:

Ok, so where would I ask questions about one of the modules without having it available for public consumption?

One of the parts of First Steps Part I has some timing issues I wanted to see how others were dealing with...

Which part?

The puzzles.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Andy,

I will put it on the gallery tablet and can talk on van ride too.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

Andrew Christian wrote:

Ok, so where would I ask questions about one of the modules without having it available for public consumption?

One of the parts of First Steps Part I has some timing issues I wanted to see how others were dealing with...

Since the PDFs for the three First Steps modules can now be ordered and downloaded (I am reading the first one now, since I am running it at my local game store on the 5th...), I think you can safely ask questions about them here on the GM boards.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Callarek wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:

Ok, so where would I ask questions about one of the modules without having it available for public consumption?

One of the parts of First Steps Part I has some timing issues I wanted to see how others were dealing with...

Since the PDFs for the three First Steps modules can now be ordered and downloaded (I am reading the first one now, since I am running it at my local game store on the 5th...), I think you can safely ask questions about them here on the GM boards.

Even though everyone can see them if they wish to? I'd rather wait till after Gen Con to put up spoilers and such.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Andrew Christian wrote:


Even though everyone can see them if they wish to? I'd rather wait till after Gen Con to put up spoilers and such.

That is always the case with anything in the GM boards.

GM boards is supposed to act on the Honor system, if you don't trust that then you might as well never post in the GM boards.

The Exchange 5/5

Anyone can download and read the scenarios if they want to. So if people are bent on cheating, they are going to do it. If you want to avoid inadvertently spoiling the scenario then just be sure to head your Subject thread with *SPOILERS* or use spoiler tags within the thread.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Ok then:

Spoiler for First Steps Part I:
In the Osirian encounter, where the characters must solve a series puzzles in half an hour, the timing thing seems really strange. There is no mechanic introduced in the module for how to handle this timing issue, so I have to default to RAW game mechanics for timing. But 90% of the actions the players can take are not really timed actions.

30 minutes equals 300 rounds. So even if you break it down into rounds, it could get really, really monotonous.

Is this supposed to be so incredibly easy to pass that the characters will pass this task without having to worry about time?

As a GM are we supposed to arbitrarily come up with how long certain attempts to solve the puzzles will take?

Scarab Sages 3/5

I'll put this in a spoiler, but I don't really think i need to.

Spoiler:
I understand your concern, but by creating a time limit, it prevents the PCs from running off to get something and then returning. You also have a situation where taking twenty eats away at their time so that's where the rubber hits the road.

Take 20
When a character or creature has plenty of time, and is not faced with threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, he/it can take 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the check, just calculate the result as if the die had rolled a 20.

Taking 20 means you continue trying until you get it right, and assumes that you will fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as making a single check would take (usually 2 minutes for a skill that takes 1 round or less to perform).

Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties).

So I don't think you need to tick off all of those rounds, unless you get a very pedantic table (not likely).

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Michael Griffin-Wade wrote:

Spoiler:
I understand your concern, but by creating a time limit, it prevents the PCs from running off to get something and then returning. You also have a situation where taking twenty eats away at their time so that's where the rubber hits the road.

Take 20
When a character or creature has plenty of time, and is not faced with threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, he/it can take 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the check, just calculate the result as if the die had rolled a 20.

Taking 20 means you continue trying until you get it right, and assumes that you will fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as making a single check would take (usually 2 minutes for a skill that takes 1 round or less to perform).

Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties).

So I don't think you need to tick off all of those rounds, unless you get a very pedantic table (not likely).

Spoiler:
I understand, and if there were actual defined skill rolls in that encounter, this would be fine. But much of the action that the players will be having their characters take, will not be actual skill checks. Sure they can do a few perception checks to search for traps or what have you. Even taking 20 on each box would only take up 8 minutes of the 30. Most of the time it will be simply finding a key in either the basket or the jar, using said key and then getting the consequences as such.

How much time does carefully searching the basket take? How much time does dumping over the jar take?

Say they figure out there is a snake in the basket or a acid in the jar, then they might take a bit more time to figure out how to bypass the slight danger.

The longest part of this encounter will be to get the key that drops from the ceiling, and I can’t see this really taking up a ton of time either.

I would be very surprised if anybody actually couldn’t succeed at this encounter in under 10 minutes if you calculate actions round by round.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **

Spoiler:
In my experience, puzzles make some groups freeze up with analysis paralysis, and they talk endlessly before making a decision. Remember, all that talking about what to do also takes time - I would use a 30 minute limit on actual time, and then subtract the actions that happen fast in real time but represent more game time (like taking 20). Some tables will endlessly plan before making a move, and that should count against the time limit as well. This way, the puzzle section should take a maximum of 30 minutes of real time, and perhaps less if they take twenty a lot.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Lamplighter wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Good idea!

Scarab Sages 3/5

Andrew Christian wrote:
Michael Griffin-Wade wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...

Spoiler:
I think that you have a good understanding of the situation. Perception checks are generally a standard action.

[spoiler]They may want to do handle animal check, etc. Basically most checks will be standard actions.

The 30 minutes is mostly for flavor. Its a stick to make the adventures move along. You want the players to be on their toes. If for nothing just to keep the scenario going.

This encounter will be the least of your worries, I can tell you have an eye for detail, and that's a good thing. Let your players get creative, and remember that this is more of role play encounter rather than combat. Be discriptive as they explore, it will be a chance to stretch your imagination and theirs too. This scenario is an introduction, so try and pique their curiosity. Most of all have fun with it.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Michael Griffin-Wade wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Michael Griffin-Wade wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...

** spoiler omitted **

This encounter will be the least of your worries, I can tell you have an eye for detail, and that's a good thing. Let your players get creative, and remember that this is more of role play encounter rather than combat. Be discriptive as they explore, it will be a chance to stretch your imagination and theirs too. This scenario is an introduction, so try and pique their curiosity. Most of all have fun with it.

Thanks for your well thought out reply Michael. I think treating it as a roleplaying encounter vs. combat is a good idea. I also liked a previous poster's idea about giving the literally 30 minutes real time.

Scarab Sages 3/5

Andrew Christian wrote:
Michael Griffin-Wade wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Michael Griffin-Wade wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...

** spoiler omitted **

This encounter will be the least of your worries, I can tell you have an eye for detail, and that's a good thing. Let your players get creative, and remember that this is more of role play encounter rather than combat. Be discriptive as they explore, it will be a chance to stretch your imagination and theirs too. This scenario is an introduction, so try and pique their curiosity. Most of all have fun with it.

Thanks for your well thought out reply Michael. I think treating it as a roleplaying encounter vs. combat is a good idea. I also liked a previous poster's idea about giving the literally 30 minutes real time.

Look forward to meeting you at the Con. You're going to be great!

Paizo Employee Director of Narrative

Hey Andrew! I just got home from work and saw this thread, but it looks like Lamplighter and Michael nailed the answer.

See y'all at GenCon!

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Adam Daigle wrote:

Hey Andrew! I just got home from work and saw this thread, but it looks like Lamplighter and Michael nailed the answer.

See y'all at GenCon!

Yup, thanks for lookin in though Adam.

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