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So I was listening to 3.5 private sanctuary's coverage of Paizocon seminars, specifically Auntie Lisa's Story time. A great story which was intersting enough for me to consider 'accidently' missing my stop on the train this morning so I wouldn't have to cut it short when I got to work.
So anyway one of the questions was the now seemingly ubiquitous, when are we going to have space pathfinder? And she very reasonably explained that in order to do a space rpg she would have to support it on similar levels to Pathfinder proper, with adventures, game aids, setting material and such, in order for it to be successful. She also expressed concerns about splitting the paizo market. And certainly I agree with that, which means a space opera rpg for Paizo isn't going to happen for the forseable future.
But what about Golarion space. We have Numeria, which has a literal crashed space ship. Clearly there is room in golarion for superscience and space travel. What if down the line (presumably not in the next few years) there was an AP that went through Numeria into space. If it was accompanied with a set of supplemental rules made for PFRPG, could it work as an in golarion, in Pathfinder RPG product subset?
We have seen there is room for alot of stuff in golarion. Is there room enough in golarions univers for a few space ships? I think it could be a very fun AP of fantasy characters (made with pfrpg rules) being swept up into an adventure in futuristic space ships. I would be a genre subset, but it wouldn't be a new game or a new world, just a new piece of pathfinder as it is. Much like psionics, ninjas/samurai or guns have additional rules and have their own genre and their own rules, this could have supplemental rules on advanced science, its own advenutre path, but still be part of pathfinder as a whole and part of golarion.
It would probably be more risky then the 'pirate' AP that Skull and Shackles will be, but it wouldnt require a wild departure from the normal releases or a major increase in releases on paizos part. Just the committment of an Adventure path, an RPG product, and a couple setting products to expand the rules and the setting just enough to make it work (much the way the upcomming rules are expanding just enough to have western style games in golarion). It wouldn't be what the hardcore space opera fans want, but it would be a fair compromise that sits right on top of the world and the game that we all have come to love, and possibly give us the tools as players and GMs to build something bigger.
Paizo staff have often said that Golarion is designed to have room for every kind of game people play. Is it possible that there is more room then we all thought?
I'd certainly be sufficiently intrigued by a Numeria/space adventure path to follow along and perhaps purchase such a thing if seemed well done. I've certainly enough Spelljammer material in my collection to make some point or other on the issue.
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If you want Golarion solar system stuff... stay tuned for announcements. :D
(Also, there's a gazetteer in Pathfinder #14)
If you want Golarion solar system stuff... stay tuned for announcements. :D
(Also, there's a gazetteer in Pathfinder #14)
Mmm...yummy.
If you want Golarion solar system stuff... stay tuned for announcements. :D
(Also, there's a gazetteer in Pathfinder #14)
You are such a tease.
It is definately a can of worms, and it wont be an easy task. It isnt going to please everyone and some people will hate it. It will be as hard if not harder then including rules for black powder weapons and a pirate adventure. Some people will be very upset at the idea of space ships in their fantasy, and rightfully so. The question is there enough of a market for this subgenre, science and sorcery, to justify parking an AP, A rulebook and some setting books to it? Because that is likely what it would take to make it successful. But puting it in Golarion at least makes it possible (as opposed to making it exclusive to golarion which makes it not).
Creative Director
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The Derro are now pretty much exactly the Deros from the Shaver mysteries. In that case who/what are the Teros? According to the Shaver mysteries both were descended from an advanced civilization of giants, titans, and/or Atlanteans. His accounts were inconsistent, mostly from being crazy, though he always maintained the crazy was induced by the Deros experimentation. Could Shaver been mistaking giant big for giant grandiose? If so who was the original Derro progenitor on Golarion? Was it the Azlant? Or an even a more ancient heritage? Are the Derro finally going to shed the last vestiges of their D&D imposed fey heritage?
Derro in Pathfinder fill the role of "mass hysteria monster." Be they actual deros from the Shaver mysteries (which caused their own mass hysteria back in the day sort of), or be they human-abducting greys from flying saucers.
"Into the Darklands" and "Classic Horrors" both go into extensive detail about where the derros of Golarion are from—they were once pechs (see Bestiary 2) who served the mysterious Vault Builders of Orv; when the Vault Builders left, they left the pechs behind. Some of the pechs stayed put, but others banded together to climb up through the Darklands to seek other fates—they ended up making it to Nar Voth but not beyond, and after exposure to strange fungus and other elements, transformed over several generations, morlock style, into derros.
So in this case, the Teros are pechs.
If you want Golarion solar system stuff... stay tuned for announcements. :D
(Also, there's a gazetteer in Pathfinder #14)
And Keep Looking Up!
So after the Shackles, Numeria?
It could tie in really well with the John Carter of Mars movie.
Also in the Secrets of Golarion seminar at PaizoCon, when they were asked about the planets James asked Erik something, and Erik respond "I don't know, no". Which makes me think there is something relating to the planets in the works.
Also in the Secrets of Golarion seminar at PaizoCon, when they were asked about the planets James asked Erik something, and Erik respond "I don't know, no". Which makes me think there is something relating to the planets in the works.
I hope so, I think it could be a fun series of adventures if done well. I really enjoyed the old science and sorcery novels like the Dying Earth Books by Jack Vance. I'd love to play that out in pathfinder. And ofcourse its a great way to bring a new style of game into the pathfinder fold.
...futuristic space ships...advanced science...
Is it possible that there is more room then we all thought?
Not enough room for my purchase.
OTOH, fantasy space, a la Spelljammer, I could get behind.
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The solar system stuff is quite ripe in Golarion.
- The existing gazetteer
- Numeria's stuff
- Lirgen's stuff
- The Night Heralds
- 'Elf gates' (I'm thinking about writing a campaign around these)
- etc. (really there are tons of 'space' hints littered EVERYWHERE)
I am curious which fruit we'll hear about. But similar to how Jade Reagent was cooked for a long time before served, I think a 'space' AP has been bouncing around for a while in the paizo HQ.
Well we should hear what the book involving the planets is in a week.
Well we should hear what the book involving the planets is in a week.There's a tantalizing clue in the right link under the Jade Regent map compendium right now, but it is broken.
Distant Worlds in January or February, very nice!
Erik said in Ropecon that there is going to be a Planets book in campaign setting line, I just don't remember when he said that it's going to be out =).
So after the Shackles, Numeria?We'll have more to say what's after Skull & Shackles in less than a week.
Patience.
Patience? What is that? ;)
Patience? What is that? ;)So after the Shackles, Numeria?We'll have more to say what's after Skull & Shackles in less than a week.
Patience.
A woman's name used in some parts of the English-speaking world, I think.
I'm reading this as "see you at Gen Con."So after the Shackles, Numeria?We'll have more to say what's after Skull & Shackles in less than a week.
Yep the next AP is getting announced at GenCon along with a bunch of other forth coming books (one of which we now know is Distant Worlds)
Ok first of all i would very much like space and sci-fi pathfinder material but i also would like to keep it separated enough from the now golarion, guns and blackpowder are already pushing it for me, i don't want jedi knights figthing alongside with Arthur and Gandalf.
Also question:
The elves went to another planet via the Sovyrian Stone? I always thought that they went to another plane and/or time, is there anything anywhere to support that they went to another planet?
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Ok first of all i would very much like space and sci-fi pathfinder material but i also would like to keep it separated enough from the now golarion, guns and blackpowder are already pushing it for me, i don't want jedi knights figthing alongside with Arthur and Gandalf.
Also question:
The elves went to another planet via the Sovyrian Stone? I always thought that they went to another plane and/or time, is there anything anywhere to support that they went to another planet?
Nothing like a good old "ack ack! Get your guns/sf/manga/japan/russia/ponies out of my cherished, traditional western medieval fantasy" knee jerk reaction :)
Sword'n'planet style SF (think John Carter from Mars) is established part of Golarion canon, as far as titbits of information about Castrovel and Aktion are any indication.
is there anything anywhere to support that they went to another planet?Elf book says distant continent, planet or plane. We can be pretty sure it's not a continent. So plane or planet; and planet is my guess (gates of the moon?).
Can you give me a page number in the elf book, i would really like to read that.
Yes i don't think that distant continent can work, and i don't say that i don't like the idea of elves having a stargate (i love it) but i think that another plane actually fits the setting better.
Ok first of all i would very much like space and sci-fi pathfinder material but i also would like to keep it separated enough from the now golarion, guns and blackpowder are already pushing it for me, i don't want jedi knights figthing alongside with Arthur and Gandalf.
Also question:
The elves went to another planet via the Sovyrian Stone? I always thought that they went to another plane and/or time, is there anything anywhere to support that they went to another planet?Nothing like a good old "ack ack! Get your guns/sf/manga/japan/russia/ponies out of my cherished, traditional western medieval fantasy" knee jerk reaction :)
Sword'n'planet style SF (think John Carter from Mars) is established part of Golarion canon, as far as titbits of information about Castrovel and Aktion are any indication.
Ok first of all who is this John Carter from Mars you are talking about, can you provide me with some links?
Now because we have different tastes and preferences this doesn't give you the right to insult me, please refrain from doing so since i haven't insulted neither you nor your preferences.Is it so bad having different things separated inside a setting? I don't mind small things being inside the other but i want things to be quite separate/clear, for example this part of the world/continent is medeival-like, this other part of the world is asian-ninja-like etc.
Having said that i would love to play an adventure that mixes a little the two if the mix is done in such a way that doesn't affect the rest of the world.
An unlucky group of adventures finds a weird looking gate in the cold lands of the far north and accidentaly activate it, after a breath's time passes they find themselves in an ancient "metal" city of wonders which resides below water. While they are exploring the city they find a small group of poeple sleeping in weird looking chambers and being in suspended animation (aka stasis), after those guardians of the ancient city awaken they tell our heroes that they are actually the last survivors of an ancient race of humans and that they are part of a long gone allience of 4 races (elves, dawrves, humans, gnomes) whose purpose was to protect this galaxy from alien invaders. But now this allience is in disarray, the great powers once weilder is now on vaccum and their powerful enemies once again threaten the poeple of this galaxy and our heroes find themselves armed with weapons of the future and set out to re-unite the remaining forces of the old allience and stop those alien creatures from laying their hands on their favorite planet. The chances of survival are small, the chance of victory is even slimmer but they chose to wear the mantle of protectors and decide to do what is neccessary to save the rest of their planet even if their bretheren never find out what is happening and how close they came to destruction.
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The John Carter of Mars series by Edgar Rice Burroughs (yes, the Tarzan guy) is representative of sword and planet sub-genre, which itself is a part of the Science Fantasy genre. Given that Erik and Jason are great fans of these, and Paizo continues to publish them in the Planet Stories line, chances of Golarion's Sci-Fi elements being along these lines are pretty much 100%.
In other words: TIE Fighters, Battlemechs and M345 Plasma Cannons are likely NO, psionic amazons riding winged dinosaurs across martian landscape wielding shock lances against worm-spiders from Nihilanth are likely YES.
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Ok first of all i would very much like space and sci-fi pathfinder material but i also would like to keep it separated enough from the now golarion, guns and blackpowder are already pushing it for me, i don't want jedi knights figthing alongside with Arthur and Gandalf.
Also question:
The elves went to another planet via the Sovyrian Stone? I always thought that they went to another plane and/or time, is there anything anywhere to support that they went to another planet?Nothing like a good old "ack ack! Get your guns/sf/manga/japan/russia/ponies out of my cherished, traditional western medieval fantasy" knee jerk reaction :)
Sword'n'planet style SF (think John Carter from Mars) is established part of Golarion canon, as far as titbits of information about Castrovel and Aktion are any indication.
Nothing like crudely stereotyping someone's opinions so that you can them dismiss them.
I think leo1925 is pretty much on the same page as Paizo when it comes to mixing up genres. I don't know for sure but that is what I infer from the words of JJ and others.
leo1925 made no reference to cultural mash-up in any case, you introduced that, he only mentioned technology levels.
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Ok first of all i would very much like space and sci-fi pathfinder material but i also would like to keep it separated enough from the now golarion, guns and blackpowder are already pushing it for me, i don't want jedi knights figthing alongside with Arthur and Gandalf.
Also question:
The elves went to another planet via the Sovyrian Stone? I always thought that they went to another plane and/or time, is there anything anywhere to support that they went to another planet?Nothing like a good old "ack ack! Get your guns/sf/manga/japan/russia/ponies out of my cherished, traditional western medieval fantasy" knee jerk reaction :)
Sword'n'planet style SF (think John Carter from Mars) is established part of Golarion canon, as far as titbits of information about Castrovel and Aktion are any indication.
Nothing like crudely stereotyping someone's opinions so that you can them dismiss them.
I think leo1925 is pretty much on the same page as Paizo when it comes to mixing up genres. I don't know for sure but that is what I infer from the words of JJ and others.
leo1925 made no reference to cultural mash-up in any case, you introduced that, he only mentioned technology levels.
Jedi Knights vs. Gandalf is a cultural mashup reference, and what I do is point out that it's not the only way such mashup can play out.
Jedi Knights vs. Gandalf is a cultural mashup reference, and what I do is point out that it's not the only way such mashup can play out.
Ok first of all i am not sure i understand the word mushup but i take it means mix, am i right?
Now i didn't say that i want or see jedi knights vs. gandalf, i said that i don't want to see jedi knight+galdalf+arthur vs. big evil guys.I like how Paizo has, so far, done the whole different culture thing in golarion, that way i can simply not play in the parts of golarion that feature the things i don't like. I just fear that things might get out hand and see the above jedi knights+gandalf vs. evil guys and similar mixes in all of golarion.
On another note, thank you for giving me those links. After a quick read they appear quite enteresting readings. I have to say that i like science fiction better than science fantasy (i guess this is an age thing) and if there was to be a mix of the two i would prefer major portions of science fiction with small portions of science fantasy. I just can't understand how you have acheived interstellar travel but still travel with horse-like creatures.
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I just can't understand how you have acheived interstellar travel but still travel with horse-like creatures.
I get that a lot as a science-fantasy fan, and my usual answer is the same way that X-wings make noise while zooming thru vacuum :)
A good quote on this is: science fiction makes the implausible possible, while science fantasy makes the impossible plausible.
I just can't understand how you have acheived interstellar travel but still travel with horse-like creatures.I get that a lot as a science-fantasy fan, and my usual answer is the same way that X-wings make noise while zooming thru vacuum :)
A good quote on this is: science fiction makes the implausible possible, while science fantasy makes the impossible plausible.
Yes it's indeed a good quote and helps differenting the two.
On the x-wings thing, i like to think that the noise is there for the one watching the movie and doesn't really makes noise in the vacuum of space.
Or my favorite movie preview to rag on,
From one if the aliens vs predator movies
"In space, no one can hear you scream..."
Then a ship flys by, "brguggggggggrfhggg" (random rocket noise)
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Elves of Golarion pg 3, Brief History, end of paragraph 2.
Also: you know about Numeria right?
Here is a tidbit hidden away in the council of thieves, "what lies in Dust"
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Man, I can't wait to post in this thread.
See ya'll after Gen Con!
I can't wait to see James Sutter post.
@thebwt
Thank you for the page number.
Ok first of all i would very much like space and sci-fi pathfinder material but i also would like to keep it separated enough from the now golarion, guns and blackpowder are already pushing it for me, i don't want jedi knights figthing alongside with Arthur and Gandalf.
Also question:
The elves went to another planet via the Sovyrian Stone? I always thought that they went to another plane and/or time, is there anything anywhere to support that they went to another planet?
There never was any such separation in the first place. What with the alien space ship that crashed in Numeria and such. Which was inspired by the 1st edition D&D module Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Which was inspired by similar scenarios in Pulp literature...
All I wanna know is, can my gunslinger aim to misbehave?
Oh, and will "Companion" be a viable class in Golariospace? :D
Oh, and will "Companion" be a viable class in Golariospace? :D
... umm, maybe the Geisha archetype (UM) for bards? :D
Doctor's companions are decent women, not some oriental wenches!Oh, and will "Companion" be a viable class in Golariospace? :D... umm, maybe the Geisha archetype (UM) for bards? :D
A companion doesn't have to be a wench.