Chief Technical Officer
|
Many customers have asked Paizo to offer PDF editions of our GameMastery Maps products, and we've always said that we're worried that a significant number of gamers choosing the PDF edition exclusively could hurt our ability to continue producing printed maps
Well, we've decided to test that theory. The next two GameMastery Map products, Map Pack: Magic Academy (due this month) and Flip-Mat: Haunted Dungeon (due in July) will also be available in PDF form.
We've also decide to release the out-of-print GameMastery Maps in PDF form as well. The following products are now available:
- GameMastery Map Pack: Village PDF
- GameMastery Map Pack: Countryside PDF
- GameMastery Map Pack: Dungeon Chambers PDF
- GameMastery Flip-Mat: Tavern PDF
- GameMastery Flip-Mat: Woodlands PDF
Note that, because this is a test, the GameMastery Maps subscription benefits are not changing at this time. GameMastery Maps subscribers will continue to get 20% off the MSRP of each month’s map product, any previously released Flip-Mat or Map Pack (excluding backorders) at 15% off the cover price. The PDFs are not currently part of the subscription offer, and must be purchased separately.
After this test period, we'll revisit our plans regarding future GameMastery Map PDFs, and keep subscribers updated.
So if I understand correctly:
- Map Pack: Magic Academy
- Flip-Mat: Haunted Dungeon
As a subscriber, I'll receive the physical copies of these products, but I will not receive a digital copy (PDF) in My Downloads for these products.
-----
Question: If you later decide to add a PDF benefit to the subscription offer, is there any chance current subscribers will obtain that benefit retroactively back to this test?
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
So if I understand correctly:
- Map Pack: Magic Academy
- Flip-Mat: Haunted DungeonAs a subscriber, I'll receive the physical copies of these products, but I will not receive a digital copy (PDF) in My Downloads for these products.
Correct. You'll get the existing subscription offering of a 20% discount, not a free PDF.
Question: If you later decide to add a PDF benefit to the subscription offer, is there any chance current subscribers will obtain that benefit retroactively back to this test?
Nope... as far as our test analysis goes, we need to understand how people respond to PDF availability that isn't linked to a subscription. If we intended to apply such a theoretical benefit retroactively, and customers knew that in advance, that would encourage changes in the behaviors we're trying to test.
|
What I am hoping you will find is that those that buy the physical product, will still by the product because they need them and the price point and quality is still really good compared to buying the PDF and printing it themselves.
And those that did not need the physical product because they played online only will buy the PDFs when they never bought the physical product.
I am hoping that you actual expand your sales with these because of selling the PDF because those that could not use them before can use them now.
Also most likely the out of print ones will do well as PDFs.
I'd be appreciative if a PDF download became a part of the subscription at some point going forward, but I'm not bothered about having to buy the older ones that have already come out if/when they become available for separate sale. I've already got what I paid for with the subscription as it stands, so I don't expect extra benefits you may or may not decide to add to the subscription terms to be applied retroactively. I'm not saying I wouldn't like it if you did, but I certainly don't expect it.
I've already bought the PDFs you've just released, for what it's worth.
Any chance we will see some of the older out-of-print items?
Those are five out of print products available now. I'm assuming if the test goes well we may see the rest of them released.
I wouldn't buy the PDFs myself. But it would be nice to get copies with subscription once the test is complete.
I subscribe to Paizo's offers AND buy from your online store for two reasons alone (instead of Amazon, or eBay; which are normally much cheaper). You give me PDF's of the products I buy through subscription, you make them available to me when you ship the product out, not a week later, or any rubbish like that.
You continue to expand that line of thinking to other products, like the maps, I will continue to give you my money every month, instead of a faceless big box bookstore. But I'm not buying just a two-sided PDF Map at that cost.
I would be fine with making PDFs only available through subscription, or producing the PDFs for a higher premium rate. I.E. Map costs 12.99 and shipping, sell the PDF for 10.
But would I ever JUST buy the PDF? No. There's tons of great 3rd Party Maps out there that I buy monthly (Rite Publishing's Fantastic Maps, LPJ's Modern Maps, d20 Cartographers new map, etc.). I can get most those for around 3 bucks, which are often as large as Paizo's, albeit one sided. That would still make Paizo's a 6 buck endeavor for me.
Should this already have been a feature on Paizo's website? Definitely.
I can't imagine who would buy a PDF for a few bucks less, when they can get comparable quality maps for less from folks that can't afford to print their maps.
Although, I definitely see you getting more subscribers with PDF's, as you can see by my subscriptions listed above. :) Soon as I saw you guys did free PDFs with normal book subscriptions, I dropped my bargain shopping online and at Borders; even though I was getting Paizo books at 40% off each. :P
For me, PDFs of the flip mats are a bigger deal than the map packs. The reason being that I can (and do) scan my map packs. Despite various attempts to photograph them, I haven't been able to find a good way to capture the flip mats. So I will be picking the two flip mat PDFs soon, and have listed the map packs for when I finally give up on finding physical copies.
Also... If you decide to make more PDFs, will you be able to secure the art for and publish the City Square, Forest Path, and original Dungeon flip mats?
|
Contributor
|
Vic, thanks for sharing this information. And thanks to the Paizo team for giving this option a chance.
Given my subscriber tag, it's pretty obvious that I support Paizo products, and the option of getting my maps in PDF format is definitely something I look forward to.
I'm weighing in, here, because I'm not able to weigh in with my wallet at this moment. I'm not sure how long the test will run, but if you can give us at least a couple of weeks, I'll be able to pick up a couple of the PDFs. While I agree that some of the other out-of-print maps are higher on my "want list", I like the idea of being able to get PDFs of ones that I can no longer get hard copies for.
To be clear: I would NOT change my printed map subscription if PDFs were made available. I don't run tabletop games as often as I'd like, but having these high-quality, printed and laminated maps available is a huge bonus for me when I do.
My guess (and hope) is in line with Dragnmoon and Tokoz' comments above:
- The quality printing and wipe-able coating of the maps (on both flip-mat and later map packs) makes the hard copy versions more valuable for those who run tabletops. In the long run, you save money with that, vice printing new copies from a PDF.
- For those who would use these maps for MapTools, d20Pro or similar online playing aides, the PDF is the right way to go.
Basically, I support this effort whole-heartedly. When I can do so, I will show my support with more than just my words.
I went ahead and treated myself to the Village and Countryside Map Packs. I had time to dump one of the images into Maptools and print another, which I plan to use in my Kingmaker campaign. So far, I'm very happy.
The release of these pdfs is especially nice for me as an European customer, since it saves me shipping and negates the risk of overzealous customs officers keeping my things for weeks, and charging me more than I paid for the actual product in VAT and fees.
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Also... If you decide to make more PDFs, will you be able to secure the art for and publish the City Square, Forest Path, and original Dungeon flip mats?
Those first three Flip-Mats were originally designed and printed by Steel Sqwire, not Paizo, so we didn't have the files for them when we went to make the PDFs for the other out-of-print maps. We just got the files from Steel Sqwire this week, and it looks like we'll have to spend some effort getting them to play nicely with our software, but, assuming we can get them to work, we intend to release them in PDF form as well.
For me, PDFs of the flip mats are a bigger deal than the map packs. The reason being that I can (and do) scan my map packs. Despite various attempts to photograph them, I haven't been able to find a good way to capture the flip mats. So I will be picking the two flip mat PDFs soon, and have listed the map packs for when I finally give up on finding physical copies.
If you're careful, you can probably cut the flip-mat into scan-size chunks and still leave it quite usable for play.
I know it's sacrilegious to destroy a gaming product so beautiful .. but that might be an asset to the cause: Give us the PDFs or the flip-mat gets it!
For me, PDFs of the flip mats are a bigger deal than the map packs. The reason being that I can (and do) scan my map packs. Despite various attempts to photograph them, I haven't been able to find a good way to capture the flip mats. So I will be picking the two flip mat PDFs soon, and have listed the map packs for when I finally give up on finding physical copies.If you're careful, you can probably cut the flip-mat into scan-size chunks and still leave it quite usable for play.
I know it's sacrilegious to destroy a gaming product so beautiful .. but that might be an asset to the cause: Give us the PDFs or the flip-mat gets it!
Oh, you don't need to close the door of the scanner to get it to scan. I've scanned many oversized art books over the years and it works perfectly.
What I'm wondering about the map pack and flip mat PDFs is this: What is the format precisely? With the flip mats, is it one big pdf file per side, or is it that plus a series of smaller PDFs set up so you can print them out on your color printer on regular size paper then piece together the larger map from that? Likewise, are the map pack cards a series of PDFs of each individual map card, or are the larger multi-card scenes put together into single PDFs, and if so, are the guide arrows (such as are in the Dungeon Chamber map pack) taken off?
What I'm wondering about the map pack and flip mat PDFs is this: What is the format precisely? With the flip mats, is it one big pdf file per side, or is it that plus a series of smaller PDFs set up so you can print them out on your color printer on regular size paper then piece together the larger map from that? Likewise, are the map pack cards a series of PDFs of each individual map card, or are the larger multi-card scenes put together into single PDFs, and if so, are the guide arrows (such as are in the Dungeon Chamber map pack) taken off?
For the Flip-Mats, you get:
- A PDF of both sides of the mat
- Two PDFs, each containing one side of the mat
For the Map Packs, you get:
- Separate PDFs of the assembled maps
- A PDF of each tile on each page
The Map Packs do include the guide arrows.
Just bought 'em all. Looking for more wilderness locales, swamps, mountains, etc. Graveyard would be cool too.
The reason I have always wanted .pdfs personally is so I can easily create digital GM notes to go with the flip maps and map packs I own (which unfortunately include none of the OOP maps now released as .pdfs, though it's kind of cool to see those available in some form). I was planning on getting the Magic Academy map pack, so I'll get the .pdf when I buy the map pack and see how it works out.
I should add that many people might not know these are available as PDFs. I just happen to read this thread last night. I dont check this forum and its usually collapsed for me on the main forum page.
Any way we can increase visibility for this?
|
I definitely love the idea of having these maps as PDFs due to the fact that I often run online PFS games. This will aid me immensely on prepping for my games.
Will this change me from continuing my GameMaster Maps subscription, heck no!! The price point of printing out PDF maps is so high, that it is always cheaper for me to buy the maps from Paizo rather than taking similar pdfs to Kinkos and paying the print cost there. Plus they are laminated (even more $$$ if I wanted that from Kinkos)
So will this change my buying habits from Paizo, yes it will because I will be buying MORE things from Paizo now, the maps AND the pdfs!!
Darn you Paizo!!! Quit making such good products, you are sending me to the poor house! :)
Robyn
Thank you Liz for cross-posting this to the tech talk area. I was/am one of those people who kept trying to get into physical board products but never had it mesh well with both style and living/play space. Frankly minis and maps have never worked for me as a player or GM.
I've been increasingly condensing down to my iPod/iPad (read mobile gaming reader). Will buy and tinker :D. And I was thinking not to long ago, "man I wish I could get some good, easy to use, pre-built genericish maps."
I just picked up two of the PDFs. I no longer use physical maps (all my maps are on MapTool), so I am someone who would not have bought these maps at all were they not available as PDFs.
I have two quibbles, take them as you will...
1 - The price does seem a bit high. I can generally get digital maps for about 1/2 this price. The quality here is better, but I'm not sure it's x2 cost better.
2 - My significant preference would be to have 'clean' maps, with no logos on them, as I find it damaging to immersion in the game.
All in all, though, great items. I'm glad not to have to constantly re-use outdoor terrain.
I am elated to see this development.
One thing, though, is that I think that the $9 price tag is too steep for a relatively narrow digital asset like this. I'd rather pay something like $2 or $4 — unless you can work with Corey (or whichever cartographer) to distribute the PDF with the objects and doors in layers, so that they can be imported and manipulated in VTT. That would be worth the price of admission, or even rival the hard-copy price. That would give me many more uses of the same map. Add in a few things like broken versions of the furniture/structures and roofs for the buildings, and I'd gladly pay more than the price of the hardcopy.
Please note, for me at least, PDFs do not compete with hardcopies. I'm not a hardcopy customer, I am an exclusive VTT player, so by making these maps available you are selling to someone who would not ordinarily buy a map from you at all!
Just purchased both the Flip-Mat PDFs to look them over. Once exported using PDF Extractor these are LARGE files.
A few data points:
.
.
- 3605×4505 pixels
- 150-pixel grid cells
- PDFs show the GameMastery logo
- Exported graphics do NOT show the logo
I just tested out the tavern in MapTool, and the grid lined up with 100% accuracy (i.e. without the use of an offset) for both floors. Compared to photographing and then trying to remove the perspective distortion and compensate for the flash, this is far more preferable and looks much nicer. Did I mention that the grid lines up properly?
When ordering, it appears that I got a 15% discount, although the odd thing was that it listed both the benefit of the AP subscription and the map subscription even though the two overlapped and didn't stack.
Now then in terms of the 'business plan' for these products, here's my feedback as a map customer/subscriber...
Currently I'm a Map subscriber mostly for the Flip Mats. The tiles aren't nearly as useful to me, although for small, drop-in areas like campsites, and caravans, they are pretty decent. The recent addition of the FlipMat coating on the tiles increases their utility and also means I can use scotch tape to affix them to the FlipMats without ruining their finish (yes, I just tested it).
The thing is, most of my gaming these days is via PbP here on the forums. While I have a stack of 20 FlipMats (including the Tavern and Woodlands) and several unopened packs of tiles, I would get a LOT more use out of PDFs.
I understand that (as a test) it was necessary to use out-of-print maps for which simply buying the hardcopy is no longer possible. I also understand the need to make no promises as towards future plans so as not to skew buying habits in the present.
Once the test phase is done though, I would really appreciate getting the complimentary free PDF and having the map discount stack with my AP discount when purchasing back-copies of the earlier map PDFs. Lastly, as others have said, the current price point is simply too high — particularly if we are re-buying something that's already part of a stack of 20 maps on our gaming table. ;)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would really appreciate getting the complimentary free PDF and having the map discount stack with my AP discount when purchasing back-copies of the earlier map PDFs....
Their discounts do not stack, never have. The only discount that "Stacks" is their Christmas discount.
|
Many customers have asked Paizo to offer PDF editions of our GameMastery Maps products, and we've always said that we're worried that a significant number of gamers choosing the PDF edition exclusively could hurt our ability to continue producing printed maps
Vic — data for your experiment. I've just bought Village and Countryside to experiment with use with MapTool for virtual tabletop use. I've not subscribed to the maps in the past because I had to draw the line somewhere and only about 50% of the items interested me. I do own a number of flip-maps and map-packs bought elsewhere. The addition of the wipe clean coating to the map-packs shook my resolve and I believe that adding a PDF for subscribers would tip me over the edge into subscribing.
One thing I need to test, by adding a physical map to my subscription order I guess, is the effect on postage and what gets written on the customs label. At present, the label says 'books', and that attracts no import duties or VAT (one of the last bits of evidence for the existence of a civilised culture in the UK). If adding maps to my subscription results in the label saying 'goods' then I'll pay >20% more and can't subscribe. Itemising the maps separately would be ok.
One thing I need to test, by adding a physical map to my subscription order I guess, is the effect on postage and what gets written on the customs label. At present, the label says 'books', and that attracts no import duties or VAT (one of the last bits of evidence for the existence of a civilised culture in the UK). If adding maps to my subscription results in the label saying 'goods' then I'll pay >20% more and can't subscribe. Itemising the maps separately would be ok.
I can say that I just received my latest subscription shipment, containing Humans of Golarion and the Magic Academy Map tiles. My label reads:
1 Dice/Accessories1 Books
I would really appreciate getting the complimentary free PDF and having the map discount stack with my AP discount when purchasing back-copies of the earlier map PDFs....Their discounts do not stack, never have. The only discount that "Stacks" is their Christmas discount.
Ah ok, I was wondering about the math when I saw both my discounts appear even though only one worked.
Regardless though, it would be appreciated if the PDFs were complimentary with a subscription to the hard-copy just like with the other product lines.
|
Contributor
|
I picked up a couple more of the old map pack PDFs, today.
I like the fact that the map packs come in two versions: one as a single PDF file with all the individual tiles, and one as a zip file with a separate PDF file for each of the assembled maps. This makes them much easier to use in VTT software, because I don't have to capture images and put them together myself. Thanks for doing that for us.
To answer your question cibet44, I would say that your assessment is pretty accurate. It probably won't be economical for folks to print and reprint maps for home use.
However, folks who are running home games might want to use the PDFs as reference tools, too. For example, I used the overland hex maps from the Kingmaker Map Folio PDF in a PowerPoint slide to keep track of which hexes our group had explored. I was able to use semi-transparent shapes to fill in each hex as we entered it and added a color scheme and text labels to show whether the hex had been fully explored or if it had a problem that we needed to address in the future.
PDFs can also be helpful for Play-by-Post games, though such usage would have to be controlled by the GM, like limiting access to only those participating in the game.
Just received my email from customer service about the new plans for the Map Subscription:
Due to the success of this test, we will be offering the Flip-Mat and Map Pack PDFs on an ongoing basis, and we're now adjusting the GameMastery Maps subscription benefits to include free PDFs!
...
As of today, the subscription benefits will be changing to match most of our other subscription lines: instead of a discount, the new subscriber benefit will be a free PDF of each new release shipped as part of your GameMastery Maps subscription.
I won't quote the portion relevant only to existing subscribers (who should have received their own emails I'd imagine), but I've got two words to sum-up my feelings on this change:
KICK ASS!
:D
We've updated our back catalog of Flip-Mat PDFs—check them out here!
|
|
I was told today at my local game store that the Caravan map pack was now out of print. Will it be available as a PDF at some point?
I would not say it is out of print, since you can still get it here at Paizo.
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
I was told today at my local game store that the Caravan map pack was now out of print. Will it be available as a PDF at some point?I would not say it is out of print, since you can still get it here at Paizo.
We have plenty, and I just verified that Alliance (the biggest distributor in the industry) has plenty. If your retailer buys from a different distributor, please let us know who they are so that we can ensure they have stock.
That said, PDFs of all of our Map Packs are in the works as we speak.
Vic: I just had an idea for an additional option for the digital versions of the Flip Mats and Map Packs.
Since many of us have been asking for the digital versions of the maps for the purposes of using them in MapTool, etc. how about a download option that contains the maps/tiles in PNG or JPEG format?
This would eliminate the need for customers to spend time manually exporting the maps which (as I discovered) can run into issues from product to product.
Thoughts?
due to the awesomeness of Chris, all of our Map Pack PDFs are available
Wow, that was fast! O_O I just purchased the PDFs of the Caravan and Ships map packs and the exported graphics look great — same as my hardcopy, same as the PDF.
I also purchased the PDF of the Pathfinder Lodge flip mat, but unfortunately this is suffering from the same issue as the Ship flip mat — it is too dark to be usable.
For the time being, I'll hold off on buying any more of the flip mat PDFs since unusable like this. Hopefully Chris will be able to figure out the issue soon so that I can resume shoveling my cash into your store. ;)
Wow, that was fast! O_O I just purchased the PDFs of the Caravan and Ships map packs and the exported graphics look great — same as my hardcopy, same as the PDF.I also purchased the PDF of the Pathfinder Lodge flip mat, but unfortunately this is suffering from the same issue as the Ship flip mat — it is too dark to be usable.
For the time being, I'll hold off on buying any more of the flip mat PDFs since unusable like this. Hopefully Chris will be able to figure out the issue soon so that I can resume shoveling my cash into your store. ;)
I think I know the problem that caused this. I'm hoping to get through the Flip Mat files early next week and make sure all the ones that went up don't have this problem.
Awesome! Thanks for the reassurance, Chris. :)
And... I just finished going through the whole batch of Flip Mats that went up and re-exported them with a change to the proper color space. So if you go to redownload, this should be fixed. :)
I just redownload the Ship and Pathfinder Lodge flipmats, and I can confirm that your fixes have corrected the issue I was seeing. The newly exported maps look the same as the PDFs/hardcopy.
Thanks for addressing this so quickly!
The GameMastery Flip-Mat: Tavern is only 1 single file for both versions
I've fixed this product so that it will only display the single file download. Flip-Mats, since there's only 2 pages in the file, have one download option available.
The GameMastery Flip-Mat: Tavern is only 1 single file for both versionsI've fixed this product so that it will only display the single file download. Flip-Mats, since there's only 2 pages in the file, have one download option available.
I'm not sure if I was the only one, but I found the one page per file option more useful for the flip mats too.
There's ways to get around it but I'd rather just download the two maps in separate files.