Hello All,
My players have asked me to rule on this:
Can they change an item of value into another item of equal value?
Example: 5000 GP worth of gold into 5000 GP worth of silver
or 1000 GP of rubies into 1000 GP of diamonds?
The rule as I read it would seem to allow this as wealth is not being created only transformed.
Any input would be welcome here.
Thanx!
Hawk
Hello All,
My players have asked me to rule on this:
Can they change an item of value into another item of equal value?
Example: 5000 GP worth of gold into 5000 GP worth of silver
or 1000 GP of rubies into 1000 GP of diamonds?
The rule as I read it would seem to allow this as wealth is not being created only transformed.
Any input would be welcome here.
Thanx!
Hawk
This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures.
By RAW no. When it say "create" it means transform since polymorph can't really create anything, but only transform one thing to another.
I don't think the OP was referring to any spell, but simply to "going to town and exchanging all my platimum pieces into smaller currency".
This should be ok by RAW for coins and trade goods (cf. PFCR p.140). Should the danger of an exploit arise (which I don't see), as a DM you may always throw some fees into the calculation.
This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures.
Yes I understand this part 100%. It clearly states you cannot take a 100 small lead disks and turn them into 100 platinum pieces. This would be creating an item of great intrinsic value.
By RAW no. When it say "create" it means transform since polymorph can't really create anything, but only transform one thing to another.
Well that is why I ask. I am reading the rule as you cannot turn lead into gold.....etc.
But if I start with an item of great intrinsic value can I not polymorph it into another item of great intrinsic value?
I have created nothing only transformed. This is what my players are stongly suggesting.
Anyone else?
Thanx!
Hawk
I don't think the OP was referring to any spell, but simply to "going to town and exchanging all my platimum pieces into smaller currency".
I am referring to the spell Polymorph Any Object.
Thanx!
Hawk
This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures.Yes I understand this part 100%. It clearly states you cannot take a 100 small lead disks and turn them into 100 platinum pieces. This would be creating an item of great intrinsic value.
By RAW no. When it say "create" it means transform since polymorph can't really create anything, but only transform one thing to another.Well that is why I ask. I am reading the rule as you cannot turn lead into gold.....etc.
But if I start with an item of great intrinsic value can I not polymorph it into another item of great intrinsic value?
I have created nothing only transformed. This is what my players are stongly suggesting.
Anyone else?
Thanx!
Hawk
No. Like I said last time when it says "create" it really means transform. It is saying you can't turn anything into a material of value such as gold, diamonds, and so on. I understand that the previous metal is already a thing of value, but you still can't change it into another form by RAW. I would allow it as long as the value did not go up though, depending on the situation, since the spirit of rule is to stop people from gaming the system.
@wraithsrike,
Thanks for the input.
You said you would allow it in some situations.
I believe what they intend to do is use the polymorph any object spell to turn various gems into diamonds. The diamonds to then be used as spell components for restoration, raise dead, etc....
Would you allow that?
Thanx!
Hawk
Why don't they simply go to the nearest city in order to trade their gems for diamonds?
As i see it there is nothing wrong to using an 8th level spell in order to make your life a little easier, although i think it would be simpler to just use greater teleport and go to a big city.
@wraithsrike,
Thanks for the input.
You said you would allow it in some situations.
I believe what they intend to do is use the polymorph any object spell to turn various gems into diamonds. The diamonds to then be used as spell components for restoration, raise dead, etc....
Would you allow that?
Thanx!
Hawk
If they could get the modifier to +9 which makes it permanent I might, but now after looking at the chart it would not work since it says the same size. I am sure diamond of a certain value is a lot smaller than any other gem of the same value. That loses 2 from the duration factor.
The spell is also limited to one object so you can't change a bunch of gems into one diamond since you would have to target several gems at one.
PS:It is not rules legal, but I would allow to see if it did not get abused in some way or I would make you need slightly(maybe 10%) more in gems than you need to make the diamond.
Hello All,
Thanks for all the input.
@ leo1925: they are in the darklands right now and will be for a while; teleporting out of the darklands is a risky proposition.
@ wraithstrike: I am sure that the size modifier is for size category and most all gems are fine in size. Looking at the table you can certainly get to +9 without size.
As to the one object at a time. Very good point.
I think I am going to allow it. They will have to do it one gem at a time, so that will certainly limit the usefulness of the spell.
Thanx!
Hawk
The one object clause, can be twisted though.. There isn't anything RAW that stops you from polymorphing 'one bag of gems' into something else.
I think I would allow it, but it always comes down to which impact it has on the game.
So the question is back in your court: While it be problematic or perhaps if the players get all ressurections they can afford?
If you prefer the game to be more dangerous, and obtaining said diamonds to be a quest in it self, then just say no with that argument (possibly sprinkling a bit of RAW on top of it).
If you like them to have the possibility of ressurecting fallen comrades if (or when) they accidently drop dead, and prefer not to have travelling merchants or townships with diamonds worth many thousand gold pieces, then allowing it seems like a great way of getting what is best for the game.
Why don't they simply go to the nearest city in order to trade their gems for diamonds?
As i see it there is nothing wrong to using an 8th level spell in order to make your life a little easier, although i think it would be simpler to just use greater teleport and go to a big city.
I recall several situations where the party was prevented from just leaving via teleport to pick up supplies. Some of them are in published adventures even.
And when you're stranded somewhere where you cannot leave, or maybe cannot come back when you leave, at least not in time to accomplish your mission, and one of your comrades has just died, you'll really welcome a spell that lets you transform all this gold you found into diamond dust so the cleric can bring back the departed comrade.