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I have a player in my RotR game who wants to be a monk of Cayden Cailean. I assume if I tell him no, he will just pick another god, but if I can come up with something that makes some sort of sense for allowing him to do so, id like to.
I know your generally not supposed to be revering a deity who is more than one step off of your alignment, but "Lawful" seems to be the easy alignment choice to write in a way that fits your character.
Instead of being obsessed with upholding the laws of the land, Id be ok with him being concerned with the creeds and principles of his god, as long as he stuck to them, and using that as his basis for being lawful, assuming he did follow the laws of the land when it doesnt contradict what his god has said.
Not sure what to do about his laws and creeds though. I know he stands for ale, freedom, and bravery, but that seems awful broad of a creed.
Suggestions?
Drunken Master archetype from the APG immediately springs to mind.
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Well a Monk doesn't have any requirements to be any steps away from which ever god they choose to venerate. They must be Lawful. You can be Lawful and still be a follower of Cayden Cailean!
Point them in the direction of the Drunken Master archetype in the APG (or follow prd link). That seems the quintessential ascetic follower of Cayden Cailean!
As for their creed and personal code your monk would protect people from slavery or tyranny (freedom), would teach the responsible enjoyment of ale, and show by example bravery in the face of danger.
--Whiskey on the Vrocks!
<sneaks into thread and stands in a shadowy corner near the back wall>
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Forgot they made the Drunken master into an APG alt class. Yea, thatll work, and Vrock, I like your description of the creed, though at this point I think hes wanting the character to be more a 'life of the party' type that a 'teach about the responsible enjoyment of ale' type.
Guess thatll have to go.
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Forgot they made the Drunken master into an APG alt class. Yea, thatll work, and Vrock, I like your description of the creed, though at this point I think hes wanting the character to be more a 'life of the party' type that a 'teach about the responsible enjoyment of ale' type.
Guess thatll have to go.
Well yes a Drunken Master is going to get his party on! I have a similar player right now and all I've done is have them write up a few ideas on what they think their personal code of conduct should be. I do the same thing with Paladins so we both have a nice set of guidelines to judge any alignment issues with. It also serves as a good focus for them to play their character. I know I do this with all my characters when I'm on the other side of the screen as I often switch to "myself" and it brings me back into character.
--Vrock Solid
Spilled a drink you say?!
Why does he need "laws and creeds" or a "personal code"?
He is not a cleric or a paladin. The only requirement a monk has is don't become non-lawful. Even then, alignments are just "personal philosophies". He could be lawful and still be a raging alcoholic.
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Why does he need "laws and creeds" or a "personal code"?
He is not a cleric or a paladin. The only requirement a monk has is don't become non-lawful. Even then, alignments are just "personal philosophies". He could be lawful and still be a raging alcoholic.
Um, it's kind of the hallmark of being Lawful that you live by laws or at least in an orderly fashion. If you're trying to emulate the creedo of Cayden by being a champion of freedom, by showing bravery, and espousing the righteous consumption of ale having some guidelines to RP with is a nice tool for the Player, not the Character.
--Vrock n' Rye
First off, why should the GM be the one who finds a reason for the player's deity choice? This is what the Player needs to do.
Okay, now for the fun bit. Only clerics, and a select few highly religious classes need to be within one step of the deity' alignment. I still am going to make a monk who worships Desna, I love the deity and a traveling monk should probably revere the deity of travel above the others.
The next part is about alignment. Monk are lawful, because it takes great discipline to do what they do, to train and meditate the hours that they do on a daily basis on order to get to the enlightenment that grants them their powers. This does not mean they need to stick to the laws of the land at all! So many people get this wrong. Lawful alignment differs from person to person, its not a badge of lawful conduct.
thanks
I don't see why he cannot worship that god and even claim his as a patron.
It's a polytheistic culture, at least in most of the setting, no?
People probably venerate all sorts of gods with whom they do not share alignment.
First off, why should the GM be the one who finds a reason for the player's deity choice? This is what the Player needs to do.
Okay, now for the fun bit. Only clerics, and a select few highly religious classes need to be within one step of the deity' alignment. I still am going to make a monk who worships Desna, I love the deity and a traveling monk should probably revere the deity of travel above the others.
The next part is about alignment. Monk are lawful, because it takes great discipline to do what they do, to train and meditate the hours that they do on a daily basis on order to get to the enlightenment that grants them their powers. This does not mean they need to stick to the laws of the land at all! So many people get this wrong. Lawful alignment differs from person to person, its not a badge of lawful conduct.
thanks
+1
"Lawful" in context of certain groups of people implies their adherence to specific values. For example, a red mantis assassin is lawful not because they pay attention to what the land's laws are (particularly not the bit about not killing others).
A monk (typically) is lawful in his discipline and strict personal restrictions
Compare the Council of Thieves AP with the treatise on Asmodeus; it includes description of how paladins can follow Asmodeus. The jump from LG paladin following the head devil is easily as big as the jump of a disciplined monk following the god of debauched heroism.
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The GM didnt need to be the one to find a reason for the players deity choice, but when I posed the question, I was mis-remembering the rules so that anyone needed to realistically be within one step of a deity to revere them.
I was trying to figure out if that was even plausible, or even made any sense.
Yes, I understand thats wrong in RAW, but your just setting yourself up for a good aligned character who reveres Asmodeus, which is stupid.
But thats not the point.
The reason he should make up a set/list me a few thigns his character is going to live by is so that if he decides since Cayden stands for bravery and will stand by that, and he runs for every tough fight, then hes not really obeying the laws which he has set for himself, and is, in effect, breaking his moral code.
Personally, I don't require monks to be lawful in my game (and I toss out most of the alignment system altogether). So a monk of Cayden Caillean makes perfect sense to me.
One thing you could play up with this monk is to make him a jovial Friar Tuck type monk (complete with winemaking skills). One of the responsibilities of the Cayden's faithful is making sure that alcoholic spirits are used responsibly and for merrymaking rather than drowning sorrows or inspiring rage. Your monk could be a sort of regulator of wines and other alcoholic beverages and maybe also distribute holy wine if he took a level of alchemist or took the Master Craftsman and Craft Wondrous Item feats.
The reason he should make up a set/list me a few thigns his character is going to live by is so that if he decides since Cayden stands for bravery and will stand by that, and he runs for every tough fight, then hes not really obeying the laws which he has set for himself, and is, in effect, breaking his moral code.
Sorry. I don't buy it or the straightjacketing it enforces.
He could be a worshiper of Cayden, value bravery, fail every aspect of that and still remain lawful with no mechanical repercussions. Just because he fails to live up to his ideal does not mean that anything will necessarily change about his perspective or philosophical bend.
As an RP tool, it's a great idea though.
Im actually considering that, but Im not sure I wanna go down that rabbit hole, as I have a player being a paladin right now, who might want to change alignment, and another who wants to play an assassin, despite the 'no evil' clause in character creation.
Good point. Although it's hard to stop a PC from being an assassin (in the sense of someone who kills for money, not the prestige class)...
One thing you could play up with this monk is to make him a jovial Friar Tuck type monk (complete with winemaking skills). One of the responsibilities of the Cayden's faithful is making sure that alcoholic spirits are used responsibly and for merrymaking rather than drowning sorrows or inspiring rage. Your monk could be a sort of regulator of wines and other alcoholic beverages and maybe also distribute holy wine if he took a level of alchemist or took the Master Craftsman and Craft Wondrous Item feats.
To add to this, he could also be a regulator of booze quality. Inspect the grains, yeasts, fruit, etc, for rot or poor substitutions. Inspect the taverns for watering-down of drinks, mean bartenders, unwashed glasses, etc. The German Beer Purity Law is a good example of such a law Cayden Cailean would approve of.
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Sorry. I don't buy it or the straightjacketing it enforces.
He could be a worshiper of Cayden, value bravery, fail every aspect of that and still remain lawful with no mechanical repercussions. Just because he fails to live up to his ideal does not mean that anything will necessarily change about his perspective or philosophical bend.
As an RP tool, it's a great idea though.
I was meaning it mostly as an rp tool anyway. I would have no problem with making him neutral instead of Lawful if he failed to live up to his creed/duties time and again, but I would definitely give him a chance to make it up, so he could gain the benefits of his class back. Im not saying he is never allowed to run away from a fight, etc, but if hes running from every little thing, or not even trying to do anything to help his 'friends', then yea, I think thats perfectly reasonable grounds for his god to punish him.
Im perfectly fine with continuing the conversation, but just FYI,I think the player has changed his mind on switching to Monk anyway, lol.