Getting Lost in the Crucible of Chaos

[Thornquill]

I am gamemastering module J3 - Crucible of Chaos.

Spoiler for players:

I was wondering if anyone out there had any ideas on how to handle the getting lost in the city idea. The party has just arrived in the city and finished their first major battle. I know that the module suggests turning a map 90 or 180 degrees after a rest or battle and then giving further directions, but I was looking for a way that would make it more interesting and not so trite that an astute party member would recognize immediately that they were being given false directions and seek immediately to solve it, turning this chaotic environment into a minor inconvenience.

This has the added difficulty of GMing 6 experienced PCs so they are excitedly moving around, but never beyond sight of one another, or putting themselves in a situation that would allow them to be separated or picked off easily.

Thanks in advance.

[The_Minstrel_Wyrm]

Congrats on GM-ing Crucible of Chaos it is by far my favorite of the v.3.5 modules (if not my FAVORITE) module Paizo has produced.

I'll spoiler the rest of my post...

Spoiler:

Bear with me, it's been over a year since I GM'ed it for my players (who also numbered 6 and are experienced gamers) but I think I may have done the "turning the map" thing on them, at this point in our weekly game no one even considered mapping, and I'm not sure they noticed that little trick. They did catch on with the "chaos elements" pretty quickly, and the babau demons gave them some trouble (I added one additional babau, since I had 6 players) and as these demons weren't summoned, I had them use their summon ability, which gave the players a rough time, I actually killed two party members with the babaus. (I'm not a "killer" type of GM, these guys had a 25 point buy, but a lot of them didn't have cold iron or good-aligned weapons, and I managed to flank a couple of times, and they had some truly awful dice rolls IIRC). So, have your players encountered the babaus yet? Has the party spellcaster (whether sorcerer, summoner, wizard, or cleric (with Travel domain), druid (in wildshape) or some other caster) cast fly to get above the mist/fog and see the layout of Ulduvai?

I just saw your post today... I hope your group is having a good time with this adventure. Like I said, it is far and away one of my all time favorites.

I'll try and remember a few more details about what I did, or didn't do and how that might help you with your group.

Regards,

Dean; The_Minstrel_Wyrm

[Thornquill]

They are having a good time, though frustrated. I was sort of plunged in the middle of a campaign that proved inconsistent and I am trying to rebuild it with a story line.

Since I first posted:

they have flown over the wall to gain entrance into the city, used the bridges to move from tower to tower, killed Yarak, encountered Banderak and fought the Nabasu (one PC died). They have got the flying above the mist thing down, but I've really tried to keep the layout beyond the tallest buildings a secret. I've done some 'cheating' by being purposely vague in my descriptions of the city's layouts and they've been far less savvy with this than I've thought. They have also fallen for every red herring that I've put in front of them; a good half hour talking about what to do with the floating column of water chaos element.

My troubles now lie in the area of giving them equal power for the mod. As you mentioned, Dean, their lack of proper use good or cold iron weapons is hurting (the one character who has them isn't using them.

Thanks for your response. Any further assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Furthermore:

I'm quite concerned that they think that defeating the Shoggoth in combat is the answer to healing the city and that their next encounter with Banderak will have him shadow walking in retreat again. I'm not a "killer" either, but with this kind of thinking we can expect more deaths.

[The_Minstrel_Wyrm]

Hi,

Glad you checked back in... I was afraid that your original post was so long ago, that you wouldn't check in again. :)

And now for the "spoilering"

Spoiler:

Regarding the Shoggoth... IIRC in the v.3.5 version it was gargantuan but "only" CR 15, whereas now in PF RPG it's smaller (huge) but higher CR (19). Ugh. Do you have access to (or regularly buy) Kobold Quarterly? It is a great magazine (a true spiritual successor to Dragon Magazine, and even Dungeon to a lesser extent). Anyway... a recent issue (#13 I think) had a Shoggoth ecology and some neat ways to "customize" your Shoggoth. If you have access to it I'd recommend that to help you with the Shoggoth... and by help I mean to "de-power" it a bit. Another thought, you could keep the Shoggoth as is in the module, but maybe apply the "young" template to it (bringing it down in size) or use the Bestiary version but do a reverse "advanced, simple" template... -4 to it's ability scores... etc... Maybe (here's another idea) scare the crap out of them... have it chase/appear at a pivotal moment... maybe smacking/slamming them around with its tentacles/pseudo-pods, just shy of "killing" them... like nearly beaten to death... it becomes apparent to someone in the party, straight up fighting this thing isn't going to work. Have they found the Ape Bell yet? The derhii (grundhu?) could be a source of information, steer them towards the Aeromantic Infandibulum(sp?) wherein lies the Staff of Rightful Rule and the true means of defeating the Shoggoth. Of course the Aeromantic Infandibulum was another source of character death (and near death). 1 PC died there, another almost died (but thanks to air elemental bloodline he had some electricity resistance. :)

I hope some of that mad ramble helped.

Dean; The_Minstrel_Wyrm

[The_Minstrel_Wyrm]

And one more thing...

Spoiler:

the character/player not using his/her cold iron and/or good aligned weapon(s)... is it just from "ignorance" i.e. not knowing these materials/alignments bypass the creatures DR? Or is it an active "I'm not using this weapon, my 'primary' weapon is what I took all my feats with." Maybe, maybe if that character should happen to use it, maybe he/she notices that instead of doing little or no damage, his/her attack seemed to truly hurt the monster/demon/creature. Might be a clue for the party. Perhaps the party arcanist can make a Knowledge check (during some down time) "Hmmm how can we hurt these monsters... 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (19) + 8 = 27 Knowledge (arcana) ... Oh!

[Thornquill]

Apologies for the delay and the thanks for the advice, especially pointing out the templates to help scale the module. We have had a few things come up to interrupt the flow of the gaming sessions, so everything gaming has fallen to the wayside for a bit.

After all the work and advice, I think that I will play it more by ear while keeping all things considered. There are a ton of other things I can focus on reworking to accommodate this group's style of play. The PCs are becoming paranoid red-herring chasers. There has been a strange "breaking in" period as they wobble between taking everything as a clue to be investigated ad nauseum, or an absolute time waster

Spoiler:

the chaos elements are sucking up a lot of game time.

Before I launch into a full on rant that may require a separate post in the advice columns, let me say thanks and your advice has been very welcome to a GM who has not been behind the screen in years. I'll be looking for you name on other discussion boards, Wyrm. Feel free to continue this discussion with anything more you can think of.

[The_Minstrel_Wyrm]

Hi Thorn.

I'm glad I could be of some help and inspiration with CoC. (Like I've said elsewhere it is by far my FAVORITE of the v.3.5 modules).

I feel your pain on the gaming/scheduling front. My own Monday night game (in which CoC began) has been hit or miss lately... although it seems like I might start to have Monday evenings free again.

And thanks for saying you'll "keep an eye out" for me on the messageboards. There is a project I'm trying to get started... "Pathfinderizing" a FANTASTIC adventure (IMHO) from Dungeon Magazine (high level and set in Forgotten Realms) but I plan on setting it in Golarion (and the Mwangi Expanse)... do you recall an adventure called "Prison of the Fire-Bringer?"

It was from Dungeon Magazine issue 101 I think.

Anyway... I have wanted to run that for some time, and I finally did. But I wasn't satisfied with what I had done. So, I'm going to do it up right in a google doc and share it here... well not here I'll create a thread (and link) when I have it done.

Spoiler:

So, have you given any thought about what you'll do if they succeed and kill the shoggoth? Will you run the optional encounter of "Return of the Eaten?" I was going to originally... but I either came off to "heavy-handed" with the survivors, or my players were particularly suspicious... maybe a bit of both... so I scrapped the idea. (Actually wished I had done it now). Heh heh... actually with the new wealth of Mwangi related material, Heart of the Jungle, Sargava; the Lost Colony, The Serpent's Skull Adventure Path, and Lost Cities of Golarion my Mwangi campaign would have been a completely different "beast" if I started it now. I guess it depends what your players want to do "after" Crucible of Chaos.

Good Luck with everything Thornquill, I look forward to hearing more about their adventures and misadventures.

By the way

Spoiler:

here's my email address [e-mail]

in case you'd like to talk some more but without either of us needing to check in on the paizo site.

Regards,

Dean; The_Minstrel_Wyrm

[The_Minstrel_Wyrm]

Thornquill,

By the way... if you do email me, put something in the subject line so I know it's you (and not junk mail).

Thanks.

[The_Minstrel_Wyrm]

Thornquill,

I'm not sure if I'll have time to start that "pet-project" of mine... I've been really very fortunate and was chosen as the Grand Prize Winner in a contest from a 3rd party publisher (you may have heard of them... Dreamscarred Press). They had a Psionic Bestiary contest recently (that I entered) and... well I told you the rest. :)

So, I'll have that Psionic Bestiary keeping me busy pretty soon.

(I may be able to "manage" my time wisely... and in that case I'll likely have the chance to start "Pathfinderizing" the v.3.5 FR adventure "Prison of the Firebringer"... and transplanting it to Golarion's Mwangi Expanse).

See you around.

~Dean