I typically loot APs for NPC, maps, etc but have never one run whole. I think my problem is that as a GM I love the start of a campaign, I love creating that part of it. I also know the low level stuff well enough I can usually spend most of my time with setting and plot and little on mechanics.
Where I start having hang ups is somewhere after 6 (maybe 8 or 9). My initial plots wind down, I am less familiar with some of the mechanics, things start to get complicated.
The APs (everyone I have is great BTW) always start around level 1, some of them work for starting a bit later, but not much. I am always resistant to using low level adventures because I enjoy making my own so much but then cant really hook my PCs into the AP further down the line.
Any chance of an AP that covers 6 to 18 or 20? Or even starting at 4?
I typically loot APs for NPC, maps, etc but have never one run whole. I think my problem is that as a GM I love the start of a campaign, I love creating that part of it. I also know the low level stuff well enough I can usually spend most of my time with setting and plot and little on mechanics.
Where I start having hang ups is somewhere after 6 (maybe 8 or 9). My initial plots wind down, I am less familiar with some of the mechanics, things start to get complicated.
The APs (everyone I have is great BTW) always start around level 1, some of them work for starting a bit later, but not much. I am always resistant to using low level adventures because I enjoy making my own so much but then cant really hook my PCs into the AP further down the line.
Any chance of an AP that covers 6 to 18 or 20? Or even starting at 4?
Hi Scott,
I'm GM'ing Rise of the Rune Lords for the second time and with this AP you could do a rewrite, so that your players would come to the second part (the Skinsaw Murders)from another place. The first part (Burnt Offerings) cover levels 1-4.GRU
I typically loot APs for NPC, maps, etc but have never one run whole. I think my problem is that as a GM I love the start of a campaign, I love creating that part of it. I also know the low level stuff well enough I can usually spend most of my time with setting and plot and little on mechanics.
Where I start having hang ups is somewhere after 6 (maybe 8 or 9). My initial plots wind down, I am less familiar with some of the mechanics, things start to get complicated.
The APs (everyone I have is great BTW) always start around level 1, some of them work for starting a bit later, but not much. I am always resistant to using low level adventures because I enjoy making my own so much but then cant really hook my PCs into the AP further down the line.
Any chance of an AP that covers 6 to 18 or 20? Or even starting at 4?
Hi Scott,
I'm GM'ing Rise of the Rune Lords for the second time and with this AP you could do a rewrite, so that your players would come to the second part (the Skinsaw Murders)from another place. The first part (Burnt Offerings) cover levels 1-4.GRU
Fortress of the Stone Giants would have a plot problem if you skip AP1 though.
You could bring characters in arround 6th level, have them take over a fledgling kingdom, and start higher level PCs into Kingmaker. Actually, it would work quite well with just about any kingdom that wants to award land to its PCs.
You may want to check out the Slumbering Tsar campaign. It is not by Paizo, but it starts at level 7 (I believe). It looks like a very interesting campaign.
Chief Technical Officer
|
Any chance of an AP that covers 6 to 18 or 20? Or even starting at 4?
Not a lot, to be honest. Low level stuff sells well, and skipping it to start higher would probably be a costly mistake. (There's potentially an argument for starting *way* higher, but starting *slightly* higher is probably not in the cards.)
Like folks said, though, you shouldn't generally have *that* much trouble reworking an AP so that you players can start with volume 2 or 3...
Any chance of an AP that covers 6 to 18 or 20? Or even starting at 4?Not a lot, to be honest. Low level stuff sells well, and skipping it to start higher would probably be a costly mistake. (There's potentially an argument for starting *way* higher, but starting *slightly* higher is probably not in the cards.)
Like folks said, though, you shouldn't generally have *that* much trouble reworking an AP so that you players can start with volume 2 or 3...
Way higher? Like 10 or 12?
I think he's refering to the constant cries for epic level adventures.
I can't think of an AP that I know where you can't skip to #2, as long as you incorporate the threads of the first, which are generally spelled out in the 2nd anyway. I've been tempted to do this with Kingmaker, and I can't not seeing doing this with Second Darkness.
... and I can't not seeing doing this with Second Darkness.
Weird, isn't Shadow in the Sky generally seen to be the best Second Darkness adventure?
... and I can't not seeing doing this with Second Darkness.Weird, isn't Shadow in the Sky generally seen to be the best Second Darkness adventure?
It would avoid the "bait & switch" to start in the Mierani forest - as Elves or Elven allies.
Children of the Void is actually better. ... then we start the plunge to ... eh.
The REAL problems with SD start in Armageddon Echo, up until that point the AP is fine ...
So, we are in agreement. ;)
... and I can't not seeing doing this with Second Darkness.Weird, isn't Shadow in the Sky generally seen to be the best Second Darkness adventure?
I didn't say I didn't like it.
|
One difficulty you may run into with the APs, if you are skipping the initial installment, is the formula seems to be that of introducing the players to something integral to the AP, and establishing a buy-in emotionally with them, which makes the rest of the AP run smoothly. Without this buy in, it tends to have problems later on and the wheels could fall off, so to speak. For instance, the first book of Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and Council of Thieves, the players all become attached to a particular town or city. If you take this away, I think you will be disappointed in the way later parts of the AP play out that are dependent on this buy-in happening.
On a completely separate note, I don't think I would skip anything in Kingmaker AP, I am expecting it to become one of those iconic adventures that everyone remembers years from now.
|
I think it depends upon how much work as GM you want to do. I can see starting Rise of the Runelords or Crimson Throne at maybe 5th level. You would need to rework the stat blocks and possibly change goblins for some other monster but the plot itself for all of the APs work for any level. The only changes necessary are to stat blocks for the most part.
Mine other sources for easy statblocks and you are set.
Fortress of the Stone Giants would have a plot problem if you skip AP1 though.
Not at all. You just can use a Generictown with the same success. I replaced Sandpoint and nearly all things related with other stuff, when I ran RotR, and there weren't any problem. Giants raided the less-overleveled Magnimar-equivalent, where the PCs' headquarters was.
Serpent Skull: You could skip part 1 & jump in allied with one of the factions. The events in part 1 happened, just not to the PCs.
Kingmaker: Skip part 1 again & arrive as the rulers along with the settlers.
If you don't want to scale the earlier APs upwards for higher-level characters, don't forget that the APs assume the Medium XP track. Implement the slow track, & suddenly playing through part 1 as is (yes, the PCs are now more powerful) doesn't skew the AP's advancement so badly that the later portions aren't feasible.
I typically loot APs for NPC, maps, etc but have never one run whole. I think my problem is that as a GM I love the start of a campaign, I love creating that part of it. I also know the low level stuff well enough I can usually spend most of my time with setting and plot and little on mechanics.
Where I start having hang ups is somewhere after 6 (maybe 8 or 9). My initial plots wind down, I am less familiar with some of the mechanics, things start to get complicated.
The APs (everyone I have is great BTW) always start around level 1, some of them work for starting a bit later, but not much. I am always resistant to using low level adventures because I enjoy making my own so much but then cant really hook my PCs into the AP further down the line.
Any chance of an AP that covers 6 to 18 or 20? Or even starting at 4?
You could go with a slower XP style and do both with your personal campaign wrapping up by levels 8 or 9 but the AP continuing, probably once you wrap your campaign thread up you'd need to switch to the standard XP track.
Anyway Vic made the right call. Start an AP at 4th or 6th without a REALLY good reason and there will be a 60 page thread that basically says "WTF are you doing!" in 4 hours as hundreds of AP fans express their extreme displeasure. A lot of people use these to run full on campaigns because they don't want to or don't have the time to make their own.
You could bring characters in arround 6th level, have them take over a fledgling kingdom, and start higher level PCs into Kingmaker. Actually, it would work quite well with just about any kingdom that wants to award land to its PCs.
Turin the Mad is doing this (albiet at highter levels) currently. You can check out his campaign journal over in the campaign journals section. He and others would probably be happy to give you some pointers.
The REAL problems with SD start in Armageddon Echo, up until that point the AP is fine ...Sorry to ressurect this thread but I am fairly new to these boards. What is the problem with SD, or more importantly Armageddon Echo?
If you go to the Second Darkness forums, you can read several GMs' opinions on the AP in general or that segment in particular.
The REAL problems with SD start in Armageddon Echo, up until that point the AP is fine ...Sorry to ressurect this thread but I am fairly new to these boards. What is the problem with SD, or more importantly Armageddon Echo?
There is also a lot of great information in that forum to help tweak various elements to make the overall AP work better.