Hey guys, was toying with this idea. I noticed most devils and demons are completely naked and most barely have any gear, which in most cases makes sense, due to prodigious natural abilities and such. But, I was wondering, is it completely unbalancing to give a demon/devil a few class levels, and maybe gear? (Being as intelligent most of them are, I would assume they'd use some stuff!)
How would you adjust the CR of the various denizens of the underworld and customize them? I'll start with a few combos that just kind of jumped out at me....
Imp-wizard. (switch around the Imp's stats a little to improve intelligence, this build can easily be done with Sorc. as well)
An imp who's original summoner died, and managed to teach himself a few of the spells in the ol' Master's book. Probably uses illusions to summon convincing looking demons, (Players: the imp...he just summoned a Pit Fiend?? Can...can they do that?) or other combos that lend themselves to trickery, like a darkness spell and sniping with various ranged attacks.
I'd give this imp a regular CR adjustment for class levels and gear.
Succubus- Monk
Take feats to improve her grappling ability, and make use of high dex. Natural armor offsets lack of wisdom, but could easily get mage armor cast on her by a friend.
a Truly mobile nightmare, can charm the pants off the heavy hitters with low will saves, and she actually wants to get close to the weaker casters and grapple them to oblivion. Best used as a type of demonic assassin, or with melee minions.
Would probably follow the regular class leveled monsters guidelines in the books for these guys, and +1 CR if they were well geared.
Now I invite you guys to share!
But, I was wondering, is it completely unbalancing to give a demon/devil a few class levels, and maybe gear? (Being as intelligent most of them are, I would assume they'd use some stuff!)
Nothing wrong with it, as long as it fits the fiend in question for having taken a class level versus other options. My own campaigns see a lot of more intelligent fiends with a smattering of class levels, and I recently included a quasit rogue named Azrikalis in the new 'Rival Guide' that was just released. Similar situation as the imp you mentioned above, with Azrikalis being the former familiar of a long dead necromancer, and now being stranded (by choice) on the Material plane, he's having fun in the way that only quasits can. :)
@ Todd Stewart what other options are there? =X
and....fatal flaw with succubus monk...shes inherently chaotic. So, that puts a damper on that one. Like the quasit rogue one too.
RPG Superstar 2013
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If you want to se some fun evil outsiders, kitted with equipment and classes, come by our big annual gen con event. This year the game is Devil In Me - powerful outsiders and mortals explore a secret dire enough to command even Asmodeus' attention.
Friday night, 4-12. Best pregenerated characters at the convention, and staffed by Iron GM champs and competitors.
A succubus with Anti-Paladin levels would be very, very scary. For that matter, a bard or sorceress would be quite a combo as well.
Hey guys, was toying with this idea. I noticed most devils and demons are completely naked and most barely have any gear, which in most cases makes sense, due to prodigious natural abilities and such. But, I was wondering, is it completely unbalancing to give a demon/devil a few class levels, and maybe gear? (Being as intelligent most of them are, I would assume they'd use some stuff!)
How would you adjust the CR of the various denizens of the underworld and customize them? I'll start with a few combos that just kind of jumped out at me....
Imp-wizard. (switch around the Imp's stats a little to improve intelligence, this build can easily be done with Sorc. as well)
An imp who's original summoner died, and managed to teach himself a few of the spells in the ol' Master's book. Probably uses illusions to summon convincing looking demons, (Players: the imp...he just summoned a Pit Fiend?? Can...can they do that?) or other combos that lend themselves to trickery, like a darkness spell and sniping with various ranged attacks.
I'd give this imp a regular CR adjustment for class levels and gear.
Succubus- Monk
Take feats to improve her grappling ability, and make use of high dex. Natural armor offsets lack of wisdom, but could easily get mage armor cast on her by a friend.
a Truly mobile nightmare, can charm the pants off the heavy hitters with low will saves, and she actually wants to get close to the weaker casters and grapple them to oblivion. Best used as a type of demonic assassin, or with melee minions.
Would probably follow the regular class leveled monsters guidelines in the books for these guys, and +1 CR if they were well geared.
Now I invite you guys to share!
This is not in the rules, but in works in practice-->A CRx for one group is not a CRx for another group. Outsiders and dragons normally have treasure they can use, but they don't use it. I think allowing them to use it does make them more difficult, and would increase the challenge. If the group is having a hard time with monsters directly out of the book I don't give them the gear. If they are doing too well against monsters then I allow some of the gear to be used by the monsters.
Everyone once in a while I will add a template, and/or class levels. As for the CR there is no exact rule since it is not an exact science.
PS:If I give a monster gear due to the efficiency of the group I don't increase the CR that is what my "A CRx for one group is not a CRx for another group", comment was about.