Feed your kids and mow your kelp at the same time.
Mr. Fishy approves of your plan. May Mr. Fishy offer you pie
That's why all my animals are cemical free. Only if there is a medical problem do I allow them to put on drugs.
Mr. Fishy is an animal, sorta and i have a medical problem. Fish hole thats medical right. I'm a sick Fishy ask anyone. Loopy back me up.
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I think, the problem is a little more pervasive then just giving antibiotics t or animals in low doses over many a year. We are also giving this same level of chemicals to ourselves. Not only making the poisons our bodies should be able to fight off more resistant but also making our immune systems weaker. We do this with chemical agents to our crops as well. Over all it is affecting our lives in countless ways some of which may taes years to unravel. OUr childrens children may be the first to notice, the results of our arrogance in our scientific understanding.
Our childrens children may be the first to notice, the results of our arrogance in our scientific understanding.
I agree with you 100% regarding the horrible consequences of misuse of antibiotics -- especially the incredibly massive "prophylactic" usage in livestock -- but your cause-and-effect reasoning is skewed. Scientifically, the problem was, and is, well-understood. The problem is that congress failed to pass regulation limiting their use, because the food lobby is vastly more powerful than the scientific one.
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Our childrens children may be the first to notice, the results of our arrogance in our scientific understanding.I agree with you 100% regarding the horrible consequences of misuse of antibiotics -- especially the incredibly massive "prophylactic" usage in livestock -- but your cause-and-effect reasoning is skewed. Scientifically, the problem was, and is, well-understood. The problem is that congress failed to pass regulation limiting their use, because the food lobby is vastly more powerful than the scientific one.
Actually I have no cause and effect here. I have questions concerning the cause and effect.
I can very easily see our congress not taking the initiative to stop people who "think" they know what is best and yet are the fools who have very little knowledge of what can or will happen. Our arrogance abounds. Not just with our scientific elite but also with those who think they can just google their answers.
Or worse yet those that feel we just need to apply the right monies to the right place and fix whatever was wrong.
Or worse yet those that feel we just need to apply the right monies to the right place and fix whatever was wrong.
Which was giving animals antibiotics in the first place.
Wow... the word vegan appeared in a post title and no one arrived to post an irrelevent-to-the-actual-subject link to a shrunken brains in vegan children study. I think I'm beginning to like this place.
Okay... I always liked this place... but now I'll do more stuff with it in bed.
Keep your vegan filth to yourself! With your shrunken veg...
Wow... the word vegan appeared in a post title and no one arrived to post an irrelevent-to-the-actual-subject link to a shrunken brains in vegan children study. I think I'm beginning to like this place.
... oh.
;-P
irrelevent-to-the-actual-subject links to a shrunken brains in vegan children studySay what?!?!?
It's actually happened at least two times before... same link. You say vegan and some people whip out studies to help prove that anyone different than them is clearly on the road to ruin.
Some people really love to race down rabbit holes, all the while asserting that they're not coming from a place of intolerance or outright hate, but no one's dumb enough not to see those things for what they are, no matter how much academia your frame them with.
Keep your vegan filth to yourself! With your shrunken veg...
Wow... the word vegan appeared in a post title and no one arrived to post an irrelevent-to-the-actual-subject link to a shrunken brains in vegan children study. I think I'm beginning to like this place.... oh.
;-P
lol
irrelevent-to-the-actual-subject links to a shrunken brains in vegan children studySay what?!?!?
First I heard of this, too.
My personal studies already showed that vegetarians (especially the conscientious type) aren't right in the head, but now I have scientific fact to back it up (Granted, my study group was rather small - only two people who were vocal about their meat-dodging - but they are both quite nuts);-).
irrelevent-to-the-actual-subject links to a shrunken brains in vegan children studySay what?!?!?First I heard of this, too.
My personal studies already showed that vegetarians (especially the conscientious type) aren't right in the head, but now I have scientific fact to back it up (Granted, my study group was rather small - only two people who were vocal about their meat-dodging - but they are both quite nuts);-).
Not right in the head? I don't know, I know a ton of vegan republicans. You wouldn't think so, but seriously, I do. My outright liberal vegetarian friends are far more often ovo-lacto.
As for meat-dodging. When people are overhand chucking hamhocks at you, man, you do what you have to to survive! It's tough out there on the mean streets.
Some people really love to race down rabbit holes, all the while asserting that they're not coming from a place of intolerance or outright hate, but no one's dumb enough not to see those things for what they are, no matter how much academia your frame them with.
Well, the matter's quite touchy, as there are a few too many vocal vegans and vegetarians whose hobby seems to be proselytising their "moral superior" diet religion and insulting everyone who dares to eat organic life. And PETA makes things so much worse (I mean, come on: Even vegans are usually embarrassed by PETA).
Until people learn to just accept the other's opinions (and until PETA is outlawed on all federal planets ;-)), this one won't die down.
Jonathan Foer's eye opening book _Eating Animals_ is definitely worth reading: http://www.amazon.com/Eating-Animals-Jonathan-Safran-Foer/dp/0316069906
Onion AV Club interview. I haven't read his books, but I liked the interview. Granted, I already share his views on most food-related things.
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I can't knock people who don't always like what I do. So be it. I like meat. Maybe too much so. I need to eat more veggies. What I can knock are groups that come to town during a farming expo and serve up a Tofu Farmer like a cake and try to serve it to everyone going into the Colosseum. They even had a gooey red center for their meat substitute farmer. If it wasn't so out there it would have been funny.
Not right in the head?
I'm not completely serious here. But I do know/knew two people, both vegetarians for "moral reasons", and both are bonkers. I do have since then met a couple of other vegetarians or semi-vegetarians, and they're mostly OK, but you know how it is with first impressions ;-).
As for meat-dodging. When people are overhand chucking hamhocks at you, man, you do what you have to to survive! It's tough out there on the mean streets.
Well, you can try catching them with your mouth! LIKE REAL MEN!!
;-)
Some people really love to race down rabbit holes, all the while asserting that they're not coming from a place of intolerance or outright hate, but no one's dumb enough not to see those things for what they are, no matter how much academia your frame them with.Well, the matter's quite touchy, as there are a few too many vocal vegans and vegetarians whose hobby seems to be proselytising their "moral superior" diet religion and insulting everyone who dares to eat organic life. And PETA makes things so much worse (I mean, come on: Even vegans are usually embarrassed by PETA).
Until people learn to just accept the other's opinions (and until PETA is outlawed on all federal planets ;-)), this one won't die down.
PETA isn't veganism. Not eating animal products is just not eating animal products. You can add on rallies and speeches if you want to. I don't
And yes, vegans can be an outspoken and pesky group sometimes. But all they're really responsible for, insomuch as tragedy goes, is a little rough rhetoric and I'm sure all you full formed adults can weather that. But you've got to judge the actual person standing in front of you or you're showing bias.
Don't bias me man. When you bias you make an ass out of b and I. Or something...
As for meat-dodging. When people are overhand chucking hamhocks at you, man, you do what you have to to survive! It's tough out there on the mean streets.Well, you can try catching them with your mouth! LIKE REAL MEN!!
;-)
I KNEW you were gonna say that. lol
SHALLONGE! We meet at dawn to hurl pork!
I'm not completely serious here. But I do know/knew two people
Wait, I forget someone. Years after the others, I met someone else who is a vegetarian. Crazy, too. Was in the clinic because of it and everything.
I can't knock people who don't always like what I do. So be it. I like meat. Maybe too much so. I need to eat more veggies. What I can knock are groups that come to town during a farming expo and serve up a Tofu Farmer like a cake and try to serve it to everyone going into the Colosseum. They even had a gooey red center for their meat substitute farmer. If it wasn't so out there it would have been funny.
Yeah, man. Tofu ain't pretty. People have to stop trying to dress up a turd. If yer gonna eat it, just swallow it down, drink a water chaser and pray to see morning.
I can't knock people who don't always like what I do. So be it. I like meat.
+1
I had a steak for dinner last night.
I can't knock people who don't always like what I do. So be it. I like meat. Maybe too much so. I need to eat more veggies. What I can knock are groups that come to town during a farming expo and serve up a Tofu Farmer like a cake and try to serve it to everyone going into the Colosseum. They even had a gooey red center for their meat substitute farmer. If it wasn't so out there it would have been funny.Yeah, man. Tofu ain't pretty. People have to stop trying to dress up a turd. If yer gonna eat it, just swallow it down, drink a water chaser and pray to see morning.
Just remember that the last few major outbreaks of food poisoning were caused by vegetables.
Just remember that the last few major outbreaks of food poisoning were caused by vegetables.I can't knock people who don't always like what I do. So be it. I like meat. Maybe too much so. I need to eat more veggies. What I can knock are groups that come to town during a farming expo and serve up a Tofu Farmer like a cake and try to serve it to everyone going into the Colosseum. They even had a gooey red center for their meat substitute farmer. If it wasn't so out there it would have been funny.Yeah, man. Tofu ain't pretty. People have to stop trying to dress up a turd. If yer gonna eat it, just swallow it down, drink a water chaser and pray to see morning.
All the more reason to eat twigs and berries.
1 xp to whomever gets the movie reference.
I'm not completely serious here. But I do know/knew two peopleWait, I forget someone. Years after the others, I met someone else who is a vegetarian. Crazy, too. Was in the clinic because of it and everything.
Well craziness often gives way to personal strictness in terms of ideas about purity... keeping impure things out.
I'm a vegetarian because I decided that my relationship with animals in this life was going to be far different than say, a hunter's. I can live long and healthy without even taking a life on purpose. That said, both the hunter and the Jade, well we both know quite clearly what our relationship with animals is, and animals seem to instantly recognize each of us for what we are, and so we're similar in that regard. The person who thinks meat comes from styrofoam packages and has never hunted their own food? Or torn the guts out of a turkey because they're too squeamish? Well now that to me represents a more mystified path. I know what I'm doing. The hunter knows what he or she is doing.
We meet at dawn to hurl pork!
Hahahaha!
While I am pro meat, I don't necessarily promote eat pork until you hurl!
PETA isn't veganism.
Not just. But they have lashed out against meat-eaters in the past.
And they mistreat women, too!!!
But all they're really responsible for, insomuch as tragedy goes, is a little rough rhetoric and I'm sure all you full formed adults can weather that. But you've got to judge the actual person standing in front of you or you're showing bias.
Of course. I haven't said that they shoot people for eating a hamburger or anything. But they can be insulting. And then the other side replies with their own insults.
Don't bias me man. When you bias you make an ass out of b and I. Or something...
I bias. I sellas. As much as I want ;-)
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Wow... the word vegan appeared in a post title and no one arrived to post an irrelevent-to-the-actual-subject link to a shrunken brains in vegan children study. I think I'm beginning to like this place.
Okay... I always liked this place... but now I'll do more stuff with it in bed.
Uh-oh. That's likely to provoke the second most commonly associated topic with veganism: is swallowing allowed? Good thing this conversation is going to take place in bed...
Just remember that the last few major outbreaks of food poisoning were caused by vegetables.I can't knock people who don't always like what I do. So be it. I like meat. Maybe too much so. I need to eat more veggies. What I can knock are groups that come to town during a farming expo and serve up a Tofu Farmer like a cake and try to serve it to everyone going into the Colosseum. They even had a gooey red center for their meat substitute farmer. If it wasn't so out there it would have been funny.Yeah, man. Tofu ain't pretty. People have to stop trying to dress up a turd. If yer gonna eat it, just swallow it down, drink a water chaser and pray to see morning.
Remember that for what reason though, Xab? Does that prove my lifestyle choices were poorly chosen? Did I disparage anyone else's diet?
Live and let live, sez me.
Just remember that the last few major outbreaks of food poisoning were caused by vegetables.I can't knock people who don't always like what I do. So be it. I like meat. Maybe too much so. I need to eat more veggies. What I can knock are groups that come to town during a farming expo and serve up a Tofu Farmer like a cake and try to serve it to everyone going into the Colosseum. They even had a gooey red center for their meat substitute farmer. If it wasn't so out there it would have been funny.Yeah, man. Tofu ain't pretty. People have to stop trying to dress up a turd. If yer gonna eat it, just swallow it down, drink a water chaser and pray to see morning.All the more reason to eat twigs and berries.
1 xp to whomever gets the movie reference.
Forest Hump?
Of course. I haven't said that they shoot people for eating a hamburger or anything. But they can be insulting. And then the other side replies with their own insults.
But all they're really responsible for, insomuch as tragedy goes, is a little rough rhetoric and I'm sure all you full formed adults can weather that. But you've got to judge the actual person standing in front of you or you're showing bias.
Well any people belonging to a group can do a certain unlikeable thing, but if you believe that this group represents the whole of all people who practice as that group practices, well then generalization occurs, and then we're right back at divisional thinking which leads to a lot of societal poo.
If I say vegan, someone invariably tells me they just enjoyed a steak. I see that just happened in this thread and I absolutely intend no insult to Ravendragon, but people, even if in jest, get very defensive when they hear the word vegan or sometimes even vegetarian. I do blame vegetarians for this. When they find their new way, much like born again christians, they can be a bit loud as they embrace their new beliefs and lifestyle. When I was 13 I was pretty preachy too. But then I turned 14. ;)
Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder...
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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If I say vegan, someone invariably tells me they just enjoyed a steak. I see that just happened in this thread and I absolutely intend no insult, but people, even if in jest, get very defensive when they hear the word vegan or sometimes even vegetarian. I do blame vegetarians for this. When they find their new way, much like reborn christians, they can be a bit loud as they embrace their new beliefs and lifestyle. When I was 13 I was pretty preachy too. But then I turned 14. ;)
If it's any consolation, I had a pretty low opinion of vegans due to undergrad, but knowing you has caused me to reevaluate and substantially upgrade that opinion. Don't get me wrong, I still hate you (for reasons entirely unrelated to veganism), but I don't really hate vegans anymore.
Uh-oh. That's likely to provoke the second most commonly associated topic with veganism: is swallowing allowed? Good thing this conversation is going to take place in bed...Wow... the word vegan appeared in a post title and no one arrived to post an irrelevent-to-the-actual-subject link to a shrunken brains in vegan children study. I think I'm beginning to like this place.
Okay... I always liked this place... but now I'll do more stuff with it in bed.
Could I answer this question in private? lol
Well craziness often gives way to personal strictness in terms of ideas about purity... keeping impure things out.I'm not completely serious here. But I do know/knew two peopleWait, I forget someone. Years after the others, I met someone else who is a vegetarian. Crazy, too. Was in the clinic because of it and everything.
To be fair, I don't think she was getting treatment because she refused to eat meat. Though I never knew her story, just that she was getting treatment, including stationary treatment.
I'm a vegetarian because I decided that my relationship with animals in this life was going to be far different than say, a hunter's. I can live long and healthy without even taking a life on purpose.
I'm no hunter. I have contract animal killers that do my animal killing for me.
The person who thinks meat comes from styrofoam packages and has never hunted their own food? Or torn the guts out of a turkey because they're too squeamish? Well now that to me represents a more mystified path. I know what I'm doing. The hunter knows what he or she is doing.
Now you're getting into nonsense territory. The time when you were forced to have first-hand knowledge of everything necessary to survive and function in the world is long past.
I wouldn't know how to turn a life animal into a tasty meal. I wouldn't know how to turn metal and stuff into a car, nor would I know how to fix it if it broke. I wouldn't be able to build a modern house with all that is required. But there are people who know. They'll do it for me, and I'll give them money for it, just as people give me money for making those mystical, demon-possessed engines of chaos they call "Computers" do their bidding.
If it's any consolation, I had a pretty low opinion of vegans due to undergrad, but knowing you has caused me to reevaluate and substantially upgrade that opinion. Don't get me wrong, I still hate you, but I don't really hate vegans anymore.
If I say vegan, someone invariably tells me they just enjoyed a steak. I see that just happened in this thread and I absolutely intend no insult, but people, even if in jest, get very defensive when they hear the word vegan or sometimes even vegetarian. I do blame vegetarians for this. When they find their new way, much like reborn christians, they can be a bit loud as they embrace their new beliefs and lifestyle. When I was 13 I was pretty preachy too. But then I turned 14. ;)
I just laughed hard. Cat in lap. Cat no like sudden noise. Clawed exodus. Groin injured. You owe me, man.
And a sincere thank you.
All the more reason to eat twigs and berries.
1 xp to whomever gets the movie reference.
It's either an Austin Powers or American Wedding reference. (?)
But for the first five seconds, my male brain went another direction. Composure regained itself. :D
The person who thinks meat comes from styrofoam packages and has never hunted their own food? Or torn the guts out of a turkey because they're too squeamish? Well now that to me represents a more mystified path. I know what I'm doing. The hunter knows what he or she is doing.Now you're getting into nonsense territory. The time when you were forced to have first-hand knowledge of everything necessary to survive and function in the world is long past.
I wouldn't know how to turn a life animal into a tasty meal. I wouldn't know how to turn metal and stuff into a car, nor would I know how to fix it if it broke. I wouldn't be able to build a modern house with all that is required. But there are people who know. They'll do it for me, and I'll give them money for it, just as people give me money for making those mystical, demon-possessed engines of chaos they call "Computers" do their bidding.
Kae, I do not appreciate my personal philosophy, and a graceful accepting one at that, being called nonsense territory. If you need a fuller explanation or a clarification, I'd be happy to provide one, but please give me the benefit of the doubt and consider that you might be taking my statement the wrong way.
My point was one of knowing self. To know why you choose to follow the rules or the common way or why you choose to go against them is, for me, an important thing. We were talking about crazy vegetarians and my point of personal defense was a soft perception of my own. I'd say crazy, and I use the word lightly here, is sometimes the life left psychically unexplored. That's the mystified path I was referring to.
Please, sit with me, be my friend, and suck down some tofu. You know you want to.
Edit: Important point of distinction, Kae... I said the person who thinks meat comes from styrofoam, not people who eat meat from styrofoam. It was meant to indicate people who never bothered to think about how things came to them, and perhaps, why they do the things they do. I'm wasn't suggesting that you all go out and kill your dinner otherwise you're not living in the real world.
Forest Hump?
All the more reason to eat twigs and berries.1 xp to whomever gets the movie reference.
Life is like a box of condoms?
All the more reason to eat twigs and berries.
1 xp to whomever gets the movie reference.
It's either an Austin Powers or American Wedding reference. (?)
But for the first five seconds, my male brain went another direction. Composure regained itself. :D
Austin did mention twigs and berries didn't he?
Life is like a box of condoms?Forest Hump?
All the more reason to eat twigs and berries.1 xp to whomever gets the movie reference.
Jenny's like a box of chocolates, everybody gets a piece.
My point was one of knowing self.
It sounded a lot like you were considering yourself to be better than "those clueless fools who never gutted an animal themselves". And I don't care for that idea at all.
I'd say crazy, and I use the word lightly here, is sometimes the life left psychically unexplored. That's the mystified path I was referring to.
I can only repeat myself: I wasn't really serious with my "vegetarians are crazy" statement.
I do know some vegetarians who are a bit nuts, or more then a bit. And I know a vegetarian who was (and probably still is) getting psychological treatment. And that's not because she never gutted her own paprika or anything.
Probably a coincidence, as I said (though it's possible that her decision not to eat animals is related to what caused her problems - as I said, I never got her story), but this is clearly not the same as people who never thought much about where their food came from.
And the other two: Again, probably coincidence, but they were not right in the head. Nothing unexplored, except maybe the reasons behind it all. And I don't think it was the lack of thinking about where burgers come from.
American Wedding
+1 xp to Urizen
Austin did mention twigs and berries didn't he?
I believe that was 'Veg and two bits'.
<does a post victory dance>
.jig.
</does a post victory dance>
Now what am I going to do with 1 xp? Hm.
My point was one of knowing self.It sounded a lot like you were considering yourself to be better than "those clueless fools who never gutted an animal themselves". And I don't care for that idea at all.
I'd say crazy, and I use the word lightly here, is sometimes the life left psychically unexplored. That's the mystified path I was referring to.I can only repeat myself: I wasn't really serious with my "vegetarians are crazy" statement.
I do know some vegetarians who are a bit nuts, or more then a bit. And I know a vegetarian who was (and probably still is) getting psychological treatment. And that's not because she never gutted her own paprika or anything.
Probably a coincidence, as I said (though it's possible that her decision not to eat animals is related to what caused her problems - as I said, I never got her story), but this is clearly not the same as people who never thought much about where their food came from.
And the other two: Again, probably coincidence, but they were not right in the head. Nothing unexplored, except maybe the reasons behind it all. And I don't think it was the lack of thinking about where burgers come from.
Well you said you weren't serious, sure, but you also added to the list of mentally unbalanced vegetarians you've known and so that made it the most immediate topic at hand between us. You were kidding. But you also weren't kidding, right? You didn't mean to be offensive and I didn't find you offensive. I just thought I'd cop to the fact that there are crazy vegetarians out there, sure. Just not me. I'm strange, to be sure, but I'm rational.
I think you thought I was taking a superior tone (re-reading and knowing where I'm coming from is likely to cool your jets a bit... at least I hope it will) because it's what you've learned to expect from my kind, but I was trusting you to hear what I think about things, as if we were in my living room and you asked me. Isn't there always a hint of arrogance in daring to hold any worldview and state it aloud? You can think I'm wrong, based on what I offered, but so long as you have your reasons for thinking so, reasons based on your experience, which is something I've not shared, I'll not think you speaking nonsense.
Understand, I'm the minority here. I'm the one who sometimes makes people start acting squirrely the moment they learn my secret. I cease to become a person and I become an information booth. A curiousity. And that's alright... I never mind answering what I find to be reasonable questions, but for every annoying vegan with slaughterhouse statistics that you've had to endure, imagine how many people read me litanies and regale me with tales of meat they've loved the second they find out I don't partake. I'm not hurt or sad when it happens, but I am concerned with how the minute I develop an undeserved label based on a lifestyle choice, I no longer seem to hold the same stature in the room.
Have a steak. Enjoy it. You well understand your relationship with animals and so do I. But if you don't understand that some people never think about it, well then that confuses me. I've met people who have easily admitted that they never have, and that, to me, is lower case crazier than knowing why you chose to take a different, less popular road.
And this is what happens every single time the word vegan comes out. Every. Single. Time.
Austin did mention twigs and berries didn't he?I believe that was 'Veg and two bits'.
That's it.
And I don't remember anything about twigs and berries in American Wedding. :\