As a sci-fi publisher, might I suggest somethings to avoid.
- Gigantic reasonably stable empires. Players tend to not feel they can make a major difference. With smaller regional powers, players can quickly from freight haulers to notable persons.
- Freight hauling is the default game. Good to make a few extra bucks on the side, but people don't play D&D so they can produce magic items.
- Exploration/Military is the default game. Good for Star Trek, boring for playing. Its not all that fun to be ordered around by another character.
- Elves in space nuff said.
- Alignments be system integral It's fine for D&D/Pathfinder. Its fine for Star Wars. But that's pretty much where system integral alignments as a good idea ends. I'm not saying throw out alignments; they're fine for a quick way to evaluate someone. But there is no reason why someone who's chaotic can't be a lawyer. Or a lawful person be an insurgent. While they would make someone's approach to those professions be radically different, there is no reason why they should be forbidden from being those "classes".
- A firm need to stick to hard science Make the game fun first and scientific second (or third or ...).
Things there definitely should be/have:
- Mechs
- Kobolds in Space We're everywhere afterall.
- OGL alien races I know this is Paizo I'm suggesting this to so I don't really have to worry about this, but I'm just making sure.
- Mass Combat/Space Combat/Mass Space Combat Rules as part of the core book I was really hoping for Mass Combat rules as part of the base Pathfinder game, but I understand why it wasn't included. But I'm hopeful that it can be included here.
- AI/OrganiTech/GravTech/etc Make the tech cool.
Firstly, if Pathfinder could acquire the licensing rights to Serenity/Firefly, it would make my decade! I would love to see a steady stream of new resource material for it.
My favorite sci-fi / fantasy setting was Shadowrun. I loved the setting (I just disliked the rules -- as did everyone in our group, so we played it with the GURPS rules).
To consider Pathfinderizing such a setting is a huge undertaking though, as it covers all elements of fantasy (magic, mythic races and beasts) and science fiction (nano-tech, bio-tech, cybernetics, etc.)
As much as I am enjoying Pathfinder, I really am not all that excited about a modern version. Why? Because the d20 system and firearms do not, and will never combine well. The six second combat round in particular is the biggest problem. If they made combat rounds into a 1 second segment, where you could either move 5 feet or attack, this might be a bit more workable.
I have run quite a few d20 modern settings, and I always kept devising new firearms rules. I also find that in modern settings, there's more of a desire to keep the rules "realistic". And this is where firearms typically fail again.
Here's a scenario that made me introduce a lot of new firearms rules into d20 Modern. A group of mutant street toughs (had barbarian like powers) rushed the group of PC's. The PC's got pretty decimated by it, but the issue was, that they all had automatic weapons, and in reality, a group of 8+ men/creatures, rushing 30 feet towards automatic rifle toting soldiers would get shot up pretty severely before they even closed half the distance.
With a LOT of rules changes, firearms can be satisfactory in a d20-based system, but they will never be good or even somewhat-realistic. (In my campaign my party were soldiers, and I used RPO's Blood & Guts resources, which really helped the effectiveness of the player characters.
Aside from the combat round mechanics, the next thing that fails is the hit point system. If I shoot a level 1 character with 3 bullets... they are dead. If I shoot a level 10 character with 3 bullets, its a minor flesh wound. The reason we are given for this "decrease of damage" is because the 10th level character is supposedly rolling with the damage. They are bullets. You aren't rolling with them. If the attacker rolled a successful hit, it means your Dexterity was not high enough to keep you safe / dodge out of the way.
So, in order to make a d20-based system work with firearms you need to rework the combat round mechanics and the hit point system.
If you can do that, then I don't care what the setting is based on -- I'll play it!
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Spycraft does modern firearms quite well. 4th ed Gamma World did futuristic and "modern" firearms with a straight-up Hit Point system and did just fine. While I agree that d20 Modern and most of it's spin-offs handled firearms horribly, there's no reason to think that EVERY set of firearms rules for a HP system would fail.
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why does magic have to be excluded?!
personally, i think theres nothing more interesting than a setting with Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Gnomes, Halflings, Goblinoids, and
Dragons set in the far future with guns, swords, powered armor, mech, starships, jump-gates, distant aliens, battling demon hoards across an alien landscape at the far end of the galaxy!
In fact, as we speak, I currently have a fully play tested, 140 page pdf document of streamlined rules, setting, art, and alter rules for a:
dark ages...
Victorian...
modern/contemporary...
near future...
and far future!
but then again...i go 180% for my games.
One thing I want to try next time I run d20 Modern is to treat firearms hits as crits if the opponent is flat-footed. Usually, but not always, a 4d6 crit (2d6 x2) will beat the opponent's 3d6 Constitution score, and so force a Massive Damage Save (per the rules of d20 Modern). And that's just a Glock. A Desert Eagle would be 4d8, some rifles crit for 4d10 or even 4d12.
The Massive Damage Save DC is 15, which is relatively tough at 1st level, and even pretty darn dangerous at 10th. A Tough Hero 10 might have a +12 IF they have 20 Con AND Great Fortitude. That's still a 15% chance of dying from a single shot a 1st level NPC can cause.
Also, I think there should be a way to increase the Massive Damage Save DCs you cause. Maybe a feat or talent or Advanced Class feature. Something like +1 per 2 levels?
but then again...i go 180% for my games.What about the other 20%?? Slacker!!
It's probably when he wusses out and works, sleeps, eats, and does family and friend stuff. ;-)
My preference is something in the western/frontier genre.
Firefly. Pitch Black (before they made a sequel).
Someone mentioned FTL with consequences, but personally I don't go for time dilation, I'm more of the "we can punch a hole through, but there's some bad s%#& living over there" kind of FTL guy. For RPGs anyway.
And aliens... I love Star Trek, even Star Wars aliens... but I'd like to see some really weird stuff in my RPG aliens.
And the big weakness of Sci-Fi RPGs is support. Don't do it if you can't put out some APs.
Also, for weird powers I think it would be cool to move away from the "spells/psionics" and go with something a little more M&M. Seeing Paizo do some kind of point buy would interest me... but that's contentious I know. I could deal with levels.
Our group is a big fan of multigenre settings like Wasteworld and Torg.
(and I guess Rifts, but not the game system)
Something like that would give PF a chance to produce all sorts of supplements and to bias which ones they produce on the success of previous ones.
My suggestion would be to have a setup a bit like Stargate or Sliders,each portal leads to another world...but each world has a VERY distinct flavour (dinosaurs on B7-9 Alpha ! chipimmortal samurai on Jordans Crash ! Xenomorphs on Pluto ! Puppeteers on Alpha Centauri !)
OR
If I was to go for a "just one" setting, I'd prefer a near future (no FTL) scifi/horror set during mankinds expansion into the solar system...The moon is established, Mars is semi established, others are frontiers ...but what people are finding on those planets is something horrifying/mystifying..
That way you could use the moon for scifi-pulp adventure , Earth for corporate intrigue, Mars for forging new kingdoms, and the outer moons/planets for frontier & horror stories
Possible scenarios:
1)Corporations running mining operations near the Sea of Traquility are squabbling and the local magistrate has been assassinated - but which side did it and why ? Or was it the Free Moon movement ?
2)You're on a slow haul back from the Jupiter supply run, 57 days from earth, and you've just discoveredsomething is on board...
3)At a dig site on Mars, they've just found a man's skeleton melted into what appears to be the floor of some sort of ancient building. Estimates suggest its 10,000 years old at least, but a routine check showed its DNA matches yours exactly...
References: 2001, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Outland,Silent Running, B5[i/] psicorps + "we found a shadow ship on mars", [i]"John Carpenters The Thing", Call of Cthulhu, Aliens, Dr Who's "Pyramids of Mars" + "Earthshock"),Quatermass and the pit, and rest of the whole ancient evil relic dug up leads to horror/adventure stories trope...
My thinking on this is that there's plenty of Sci-fi fantasy RPGS with FTL out there (not least Star Wars, Star Trek, Traveller, Firefly,etc) but something a little harder and closer to home is rarer (although there are one or two, they either suffered from poor writing or poor support)...
If Paizo went ahead with this, I'd love to see a nod to the old and a splash of the new (much as Pathfinder is that to D&D). For example, for science fiction, I would love a nod to Star Frontiers, but with new ideas. Or with pulp, a nod to the old Gangbusters, Pulp Heroes & Indiana Jones games, but with something more innovative.
I'm more intrigued with having a few options for worlds and, while I didn't care for some of the d20 Modern mechanics, I loved the concepts they placed in their book. For example, having multiple campaign frameworks to display what you could do rather than having a hard setting within the book. The only thing I don't want to see transferred is the class system. I found it clunky and unnecessary.
Maybe have a Frontier Sci-Fi RPG that re-interprets what d20 Future set out to say and expand on that info. Have it include the space western, mecha saga and star frontier-ish frameworks. Maybe do a Wasteland Apocalypse RPG that expands on d20 Apocalypse and presents a bestiary, as well as giving a horde of mutations. Or an Investigator Horror RPG that spans the Victorian to post-modern eras with solid horror rules and that's dedicated to horror (and maybe give ideas on Buffy, Supernatural and even something like the Vampire fad). I've always thought that WotC dropped the ball a bit because they just sat on their properties of old. Much as I love Star Wars, I would love to see a new Star Frontiers game, or a better constructed Gamma World. I believe that Paizo could do these things justice (even if they have to file serial numbers off some stuff) as they have with Pathfinder.
As it is, I'm taking some ideas from d20 Future and Pathfinder to run a Robotech/BSG/Gundam-esque game in the near future :)
I'd like a far future space opera implied setting most of all. A setting that would support most of the popular subgenres and campaign types such as:
Military sci fi (Mass Effect, Starship Troopers)
Space traders/smugglers (Han Solo)
Space cops/space agents (also Mass Effect)
Explorers (Star Trek)
Troubleshooters
Colonists (Dawning Star, Earth 2)
Space Western (Firefly)
A Paizo take on Star Frontiers would seem to be my ideal.
What I wouldn't like to see is this setting lean too heavily toward other sci fi subgenres such as Mecha (Giant Robots) or Cyberpunk.
Jim.
Thinking on this a bit more ... it might be cool to see a Frontier CRB and then have mini-settings like the Horizon line that FFG had made as expansions (with new classes, prestige classes, equipment, etc). So, you'd get a quasi-setting neutral book called Frontier that presents the rules (much like how the PFCRB works) and then maybe a smaller book on Mecha with a setting, cybernetics with a setting or a space western (with no aliens) as a setting, etc.
The same could be done with any CRB. Maybe a Pulp one could have locales as the smaller setting books, or horror use the various genres of horror. Really, it's not that different of the approach that d20M was starting to take, but, in Paizo's hands, it'd be a better supported product.
Yeah, I hope the Pathfinder Modern system provides a nice basic framework (classes, occupations, feats, skills, combat rules, equipment rules, etc.) upon which we can add various modules (cybernetics, steampunk, genetic engineering, witchcraft, robots, alternate dimensions, psionics, Cthuluesque horror, faeriepunk, post-apocalypse, mecha, aliens, time travel, vampires/werewolves/zombies, space battles, nanotech, teleportation, space opera, urban fantasy, spirits, cyberpunk, space elevators, bug hunts, A-Team, alternate history, talking cars, portals/gates/rifts, etc. etc.)
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My Preferences:
Genre: Science-fiction (specifically: magic-free space opera)
Influences/Implied Setting Sources:
Battle Tech (the universe setting does not need Mechs)
Firefly
Event Horizon
Babylon 5
Alien & Aliens (nothing after)
Predator (nothing after)
Blade Runner
Soldier
VorKosigan Saga
Tech:
I want it to be able to be used for anything from just reaching for the stars to an interstellar conflict
1. Interstellar Spacecraft (with thrusters/engines - not Star Trek-style nacelles)
2. Interstellar society with aliens (again, more Mass Effect - less Star Wars/Star Trek)
3. Robots
4. Artificial Gravity
5.
6. Cyberware (lower end of the scale vs. full-body cyborgs)
7. Genetic Engineering/Bioware
8. Artificial life (mutated humans/animals, biological androids)
NO MAGIC!!!
Things to Avoid:
1. Star Wars-style science fantasy. Star Wars cinematic adventure is ok, just not so over-the-top.
2. Star Trek preachiness and uber-tech (no transporters, warp 23,etc.)
3. The Uber-gun or Uber-armor that causes every party to be outfitted in the same fashion.
4. MAGIC!! NO!!
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My Preferences:
Genre: Science-fiction (specifically: magic-free space opera)
Influences/Implied Setting Sources:
Battle Tech (the universe setting does not need Mechs)
Firefly
Event Horizon
Babylon 5
Alien & Aliens (nothing after)
Predator (nothing after)
Blade Runner
Soldier
VorKosigan Saga
I will add Traveller to this list.
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I will add Traveller to this list.My Preferences:
Genre: Science-fiction (specifically: magic-free space opera)
Influences/Implied Setting Sources:
Battle Tech (the universe setting does not need Mechs)
Firefly
Event Horizon
Babylon 5
Alien & Aliens (nothing after)
Predator (nothing after)
Blade Runner
Soldier
VorKosigan Saga
How could I have possibly forgotten.
Rather than re-doing a setting that has already been done, I would like to see an original setting.
Something more along the lines of a planetary romance combined with space opera and pulp adventure. I totally agree that magic and elves need to be left to fantasy settings.
Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers.
Also somethiong with multiple sub-settings; like different planets having different tech levels/alien creatures/bizarre villains.
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Lots of good ideas here. Personally, my group is looking for some good hard sci-fi. No magic powers/spells or godlings. No mystical energy feilds controlling our destiny (I mean, we already have that in good order). Minor psioncs rules which are focused? OK.
I'm talking Aliens, Starship Troopers, Bladerunner, Soldier-style stuff. Firefly and Nic Logue's Cold Black setting.
FTL travel is cool, so is artifical gravity and AI, but even teleporters/transporters are not our style.
2 cents accounted for.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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The 'post-change' world of S.M. Stirling's series that started with 'Dies the Fire'. Premise: Combustion has slowed down; guns don't fire; engines don't turn over; dynamite doesn't blow up; telephones don't ring. Basically, most tech is gone. Now, grab your copy of 'Lord of the Rings' and head for the hills.
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One of the things that I've always loved about D20 Modern is that it was a toolbox system that adapted well to many settings, modular rulesets, and game styles. I've used it to play secret agent style games, zombie apocolapse, and a D20 Modern version of Fallout, not to mention a few sessions with the Urbana Arcana setting.
I'm of the same mindset. I think WotC did wonders making d20 Modern so broadly applicable. I've played d20 Modern, including with an Urbana Arcana bent. I've played Lovecraftian Horror. I've played Sci Fi and Apocalypse.
... all with the same game system.
No. If Paizo updates d20 Modern, Paizo should still focus on backwards compatibility, like it did with D&D. Upgrade. Streamline. And make more compatible with Pathfinder.
When I look back over my 25+ years of gaming experience, I have found that I have bought a lot of games and/or settings that were very good but were too niche to sell very well or survive very long. I have also watched the systems and game worlds based on licensed products come and go, with even the most successful ones having troubles and dying, then coming back with a new version and dying again. A Pathfinder update of d20 Modern/Past/Future/etc should not start out restricted in a licensed setting, but maybe instead have future supplements put out for specific settings.
In my personal experience, gaming systems with a fantasy setting always seem to be the best sellers, but we have that with PFRPG. Then there are setting-neutral systems like GURP's and d20 Modern that sell well. Other than fantasy-set or setting-neutral, in my experience I would have to say that superhero games are the next most popular. There have been a lot of them too, of which I think Mutants & Masterminds is the only one currently still getting new material. Sadly, the next book due out for d20 Modern, but which never saw the printing press, was d20 Spectaculars, a superhero source book. And even if people do not want to play specifically as superheroes, just look at what is normally covered in the rules.
I could easily see a huge core book the size of PFRPG, that has a basic setting of the modern world with superheroes and villains, but each section could easily be used in supplements set in a different modern/sci-fi setting. A well-made supers book would cover psionics, magic, gadgets, robotics/cybernetics, space travel/alien invasion, espionage, time/dimensional travel, horror, mecha, and much more.
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Rather than re-doing a setting that has already been done, I would like to see an original setting.
Something more along the lines of a planetary romance combined with space opera and pulp adventure. I totally agree that magic and elves need to be left to fantasy settings.
Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers.
Also somethiong with multiple sub-settings; like different planets having different tech levels/alien creatures/bizarre villains.
+1
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When I look back over my 25+ years of gaming experience, I have found that I have bought a lot of games and/or settings that were very good but were too niche to sell very well or survive very long...Other than fantasy-set or setting-neutral, in my experience I would have to say that superhero games are the next most popular...
I could easily see a huge core book the size of PFRPG, that has a basic setting of the modern world with superheroes and villains, but each section could easily be used in supplements set in a different modern/sci-fi setting. A well-made supers book would cover psionics, magic, gadgets, robotics/cybernetics, space travel/alien invasion, espionage, time/dimensional travel, horror, mecha, and much more.
I've been wracking my brain to think of a good answer to the question posed in this thread. I have my preferences, but also agree that d20 Modern's greatest strength was it's usability across genres and time periods.
I've used it in past, present and future sci-fi and pulp / steampunk games. I've strapped on homebrewed extensions to play Stargate SG-1 based games, Pirates of the Carribean type games, and Firefly with psionics type games.
Any system that embraced one would have some difficulty with fans of the other. I think the superhero route is a good compromise. It encompases present and future storylines with ease, can handle a lot of past storylines. It might have some difficulty with starship based space operas and archeology type Indiana Jones stories, but superheroes can be extended to these sorts of stories as well.
I want whatever paizo does to be financially profitable for them. Thus far this is the best idea I've heard to maintain broad appeal.
FFG's Dragonstar was my favorite sci-fi/fantasy setting. I still have a few bones to pick on the loss of FFG's d20 line subject. I would love to see a interplanetary game with either flying ships or gate-hopping. Had an idea for a dimension-hopping rod with complex dials that had settings for different places and needed to recharge for a few days after every rift opened.
Despite James' statement, I think this would be the wrong way to go. The modern/sci-fi RPG doesn't have as large of an audience as it is, and to pick one implied setting only would, I think, limit sales.
One of the things that I've always loved about D20 Modern is that it was a toolbox system that adapted well to many settings, modular rulesets, and game styles. I've used it to play secret agent style games, zombie apocolapse, and a D20 Modern version of Fallout, not to mention a few sessions with the Urbana Arcana setting.
If Paizo were to pick just one setting, say space opera, that wouldn't interest me enough to buy it, no matter how great of a job Paizo did - I'd probably stick with the existing D20 Modern then for a variety of settings.
Agreed.
I'd love to see a Pathfinder Modern toolbox core book, and then see a few campaign setting treatments in hardcover. I absolutely love that D20 Modern gives me Dark Matter, Dawning Star, and the homebrew of one of our GMs loosely based on Stirling's Nantucket Series. I can imagine the awesomeness Paizo would unleash in a non-fantasy setting.
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Well, Star Frontiers was my first Sci-Fi game...
As far as settings, I'm all over the place with my likes.
Bab 5, Farscape, Aliens. A bunch of things already mentioned.
As far as what I have run (Using Spacemaster) for any long term, I ran a Micronauts (The comic as a loose basis, though a more dark and gritty version)campaign.
Mutant Chronicles is something that I am converting to run (To HARP, not to D20/PF), something similar would be cool. The tech isn't crazy, other than the Dark Symmetry,which is fueled by Alien Dark Powers. Humanity has actually been technologically stifled, since A.I./computers were infected with the Dark Symmetry, and humanity now uses more throwback tech.
Pretty much anything, again... A book that could be used to make many sorts of setting would be best, as oppossd to one 'set' option.
-Uriel
The problem with generic toolbox games is that you start to walk a really fine line between 'useful for DMs' and 'uninspiring for players.' That was the biggest problem, methinks, of d20 modern. Plus, if I wanted to play d20 modern, I'd just convert it. Some toolboxing is necessary to make the game fun, however (White wolf did this well).
What I'd like to see, which hasn't been done especially well, is dark sci-fi fantasy along the vein of hellgate:london, deadspace, and lovecraft. I'd keep the magic, but I might make it work differently, or even more difficult to use.
Another vote for Firefly. Great setting in which you can explore many different rules variants and many different kinds of story as well as satisfy almost every concept a player might want to try out.
The problem with generic toolbox games is that you start to walk a really fine line between 'useful for DMs' and 'uninspiring for players.' That was the biggest problem, methinks, of d20 modern. Plus, if I wanted to play d20 modern, I'd just convert it. Some toolboxing is necessary to make the game fun, however (White wolf did this well).
What I'd like to see, which hasn't been done especially well, is dark sci-fi fantasy along the vein of hellgate:london, deadspace, and lovecraft. I'd keep the magic, but I might make it work differently, or even more difficult to use.
That's where I think Paizo would totally excel at a release of a game such as this.
Release the toolbox, and then release a variety of genre treatments. I'm not talking huge 256-page books, but a series of 96-128 page supplements to the core "Pathfinder Modern" rules to lay out a framework in various genres (which could also serve to gauge interest in some Modern campaign settings...).
I honestly think Paizo would be better served creating a home-rolled rules system for a sci-fi game. d20s, hit points, and Base Attack Bonuses don't work well with thematically with games other than fantasy RPG. I've tried it, it's icky. If you doubt me, try Star Wars d20. Ew.
Already have, haven't had any issues with either it (Star Wars d20) or with d20 Modern in non-fantasy settings.
I've never really understood (or experienced) how a particular game system doesn't mesh with a particular genre/theme - it's a conflict resolution system, and they all seem to work decently.
That said, while I don't specifically dislike any system, I really don't want to have to deal with ANOTHER system to play games. I'm one of the fanboys that really think that Dancey/WotC were on to something big with the OGL/open game system stuff, and I'm quite happy with d20 and it's derivatives (which pretty much play the same).
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I loved the concept of Rifts. I loved the setting. I loved the character...
I'm the same way. I love everything about the Palladium settings(Rifts, Heroes Unlimted, Dead Reign, Beyond the Supernatural) except the rules. It is just such a pain to create a character and run the games. If not for the clunky, out of date rules, I have to admit the Palladium system would probably be my default game system. The setting material is some of the best out there. If only they would streamline the system.
Which is why Paizo could/should do what Palladium, can't/won't and give us an even better version.
BTW I always have converted MDC to SDC. Mega Damage is kinda silly, with only a few exceptions.
Despite James' statement, I think this would be the wrong way to go. The modern/sci-fi RPG doesn't have as large of an audience as it is, and to pick one implied setting only would, I think, limit sales.
One of the things that I've always loved about D20 Modern is that it was a toolbox system that adapted well to many settings, modular rulesets, and game styles. I've used it to play secret agent style games, zombie apocolapse, and a D20 Modern version of Fallout, not to mention a few sessions with the Urbana Arcana setting.
If Paizo were to pick just one setting, say space opera, that wouldn't interest me enough to buy it, no matter how great of a job Paizo did - I'd probably stick with the existing D20 Modern then for a variety of settings.
Agreed.
Modern is modern...(aka Now.)
Scif-Fi is Sci-fi, each of the genres is it's own genre, that's why the settings should cover so many variations.
I love Firefly, but it already has it's setting.
BSG would be boring to play for me...fun to watch, but no fun to play.
People seem to be slamming certain settings because of their political leanings, like "Star Trek's preachiness"
I'm a huge Steampunk fan, but that wouldn't work for a specific settings.
Shadowrun/Cyberpunk has been done.
Mercenary stuff is good in the future, like Battlelords of the 23rd Century.
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Really? I thought it was in the state it was in b/c it was treated like a red-haired step-child by WotC. They also opted to run with "D&D in Modern Times" as their intro setting which certainly didn't help highlight it's strengths & differences over D&D.
I agree with you completely. The modern D&D idea was a poor way to sell what could have been a really good system. They would have been better served by showing us what could actually be done with the system, the potential, instead of how to move our D&D game into the modern world. I also agree with the fact they have tended to treat it as the "red-haired step-child". It didn't hit the ground running, but I don't think it is completely the system's fault. I will give them credit for producing all of the material they did for a system they acted like they only halfway believed in, but it wasn't enough.
.......
One question, though for those who aren't fans of the D20 Modern classes:
Does you issue/dissatisfaction stem from disliking the mechanics of the classes or from the names?
Actually a little of both. But I will admit it is primarily with the vague character roles. Many of the players I have had over the past 10 years have been younger, less experienced or completely new to gaming and they want a character concept to be clear. To be honest if it takes more than 30 minutes to make a character the younger players get bored... and 30 min is pushing the boundaries. They are interested in the game play, which they love. They are use to playing video games where everything is well defined and it is much quicker to get to the game. If they want to play a fighter, they want a fighter class. If they want to play a wizard, they want a wizard class... etc. They want default characters, so to speak. It may suck a but it is the reality of many gamers, especially the younger generation.
Plus time is such a precious commodity for most of us and game time tends to be short and less frequent than in years gone by. Even experienced players in my groups don't want to spend an hour of game time trying to figure out the best way to build the character they want.
These are also the reasons I can not get my group to play Hero or other kitchen sink systems. It has gotten to the point I don't even have an interest in those games anymore. I applaud and in some ways envy those that have the time to spend on their games/characters, but I and the rest of my group just don't have it. I guess we could make time, but I'm not willing to lose my job or get divorced over gaming. 15 years ago... maybe, now not so much.
Even in Pathfinder/3e we tended to ignore or under use whole mechanics just to save time. Feats are a perfect example. We tend to only give characters feats that can serve their purpose when given and never or rarely have to be remembered during game-play, such as toughness, silent/still spell or maybe a proficiency of some kind.
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That's where I think Paizo would totally excel at a release of a game such as this.Release the toolbox, and then release a variety of genre treatments. I'm not talking huge 256-page books, but a series of 96-128 page supplements to the core "Pathfinder Modern" rules to lay out a framework in various genres (which could also serve to gauge interest in some Modern campaign settings...).
I think I mentioned something similar in an earlier post, but I still agree with the idea. Honestly we have the Pathfinder core rulebook and wouldn't need another, even for modern. Each setting/genre could be released as 100 page book with everything you need, classes, races, genre specific skills, weapons, spells etc. Why would we need another rulebook?
Although I would not be opposed to campaign settings in different genres. The books could be a little bigger, 200-300pg, but still would only need setting info, classes, and other genre/setting specific material. The rules would be exactly as they are in the core PfRPG book. Spells, saving throws, AC, HP, skills, feats, combat and pretty much everything else would work the same no matter the setting.
If they decide to go with the campaign setting idea I vote for a Rifts style setting. Although a steampunk setting would be kind of interesting too.
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I'd like to make two suggestions:
1) My favourite SF setting at the moment is that written in the books by Iain M Banks. It is far-future, full of AI (and AI personality, particularly with things like spaceships, but intelligently applied), and based on an empire whose motives are ambivalent. SF loses its appeal to me when it's just "cowboys and indians in space".
2) I would quite like to see Golarion moved to the far future, without magic or gods (but possibly psionics), and all the races and lands and empires and so on kept alive (maybe Thassilon returns).
Richard
Despite James' statement, I think this would be the wrong way to go. The modern/sci-fi RPG doesn't have as large of an audience as it is, and to pick one implied setting only would, I think, limit sales.
One of the things that I've always loved about D20 Modern is that it was a toolbox system that adapted well to many settings, modular rulesets, and game styles. I've used it to play secret agent style games, zombie apocolapse, and a D20 Modern version of Fallout, not to mention a few sessions with the Urbana Arcana setting.
If Paizo were to pick just one setting, say space opera, that wouldn't interest me enough to buy it, no matter how great of a job Paizo did - I'd probably stick with the existing D20 Modern then for a variety of settings.
Agreed.
Modern is modern...(aka Now.)
Scif-Fi is Sci-fi, each of the genres is it's own genre, that's why the settings should cover so many variations.
I love Firefly, but it already has it's setting.
BSG would be boring to play for me...fun to watch, but no fun to play.
People seem to be slamming certain settings because of their political leanings, like "Star Trek's preachiness"
I'm a huge Steampunk fan, but that wouldn't work for a specific settings.
Shadowrun/Cyberpunk has been done.
Mercenary stuff is good in the future, like Battlelords of the 23rd Century.
What game system runs firefly? The guys in my group would love that. I don't know much about it myself but I would pass the info along to them.
What game system runs firefly? The guys in my group would love that. I don't know much about it myself but I would pass the info along to them.
The Serenity RPG was based off of the Cortex System by Margaret Weis Productions.
I think the "implied setting" needs to be both consistent, yet open in the way Pathfinder has been. It would help if you separate Modern d20 from Future d20 from the get go. A modern setting is going to have different requirements than a Sci-fi Future one. Vampires and other supernatural horror elements can be a staple, but can look rather silly in Future d20. Space Ships are important to most Sci-Fi games/stories, but aren't necessary to many Modern games. You want your Future d20 setting to be able to handle both xinomorphic alien face-eaters and space operatic laser sword-wielding mystics, utopian galactic explorers and post-apocalyptic mutants - but Modern d20 doesn't need all of that (if someone wants to mix it up, they can get both games and mix it up just as they could with Pathfinder and any other d20 related product, but the setting for these games don't need that much overlap).
My own preference for a "Modern d20" game would include Conspiracies, supernatural horror (scalable to both Lovecraftian and less cosmic terrors), aliens lurking on the fringe (but not yet in contact), and Burroughs-esk lost worlds tucked away both in and outside of the world we know, yet have this all set up in such a way that the world doesn't know (and might never find out - giving folks the option of playing without any weird elements). Time-travel/reality editing elements (similar to Feng-Shui) could also be cool.
Something similar to the Desdon Files could make an interesting setting.
I have in the past used the d20 Modern setting and the players accessing it using the same (slightly adjusted) mechanic as C'thulhu's Dreamlands.
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No one shoot me for this: a Stephen Kings "Dark Tower" -ish world. Even though the novels starting falling apart IMHO after "The Gunslinger", I feel the world itself was interesting.
Dune if it wasn't already mentioned.
Alien (all - even #4; I can picture that crew as an example of a PC party)
Something from millions of years into the future where humans have evolved into subspecies, other animals into bigger, more terrifying versions, mix of technologies from swords and spears to lasers at high levels. Mechanized transportation is extremely rare but accessible to adventurers. Magic optional.