Rend on monsters is always listed as a different attack and how I read Two weapon rend, my vote would say it counts as a psuedo 3rd attack that you don't have to roll for, but both weapons just have to hit, they don't have to overcome dr to apply it.
Tough call. I would rule* that a hit is all that is required. Based on that, damage would not be necessary.
I would count the damage as its own attack for the purposes of overcoming DR.
I would add the caveat that the weapon must have the ability to actually hurt the creature.
*Just my opinion, can't find anything to prove it.
I would basically operate with it as though Rend is a 3rd attack (that simply automatically hits if the first two do). So, the full DR would apply against just the normal rend amount of damage.
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Since Rend is described as "an additional amount of damage" I would add it as bonus damage to the triggering attack (generally the second hit), like you would do with sneak attack. Thus DR only gets taken off once from the combined normal damage + Rend. If you are fighting something with DR 10, you hit twice, and your second attack does 7 damage + 6 rend, you deal a total of 13 damage, 3 of which bypasses DR, even though individually neither the normal attack nor the Rend bypass DR.
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Treating Rend as a separate attack for DR purposes does not make sense to me.
DR applies to weapons and natural attacks (and magic attacks that specify a damage type such as piercing). Rend is none of these - instead it is additional damage triggered by a weapon or natural attack.
Yes, it's considered a Special Attack, and the description does say "this attack." But sneak attack is also listed on the Special Attacks line (eg Babau). And like sneak attack, rend deals additional HP damage that is dependent on the success of another attack under certain conditions (target is flat-footed or flanked / target has been hit by your claw or primary weapon this round) but doesn't require a separate attack roll OR saving throw.
It's more similar to sneak attack than to a separate attack, or to a rider effect like poison or energy drain (a non-HP effect that does require the initial attack damage rather than just hit).
Rend thus should be treated like sneak attack for DR purposes, and sneak attack is added to the main attack's damage for purposes of bypassing DR, not treated as a separate attack or rider ( reference ).
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I could have sworn there was a developer post answering this but I just can't find it. The closest I can find is this from
The rend universal monster rule grants the creature an additional damage roll after successfully making two different attacks. Since it's a melee damage roll from a different attack than the first two, it gets Power Attack as well. Thus, a GM applying Power Attack to a rend damage roll is operating completely within the rules.
The language of Two-Weapon Rend is a little bit different than the universal monster ability but it's close enough that I would feel confident going with this definition. That FAQ says to treat it as a different attack, so DR would apply again (but so would power attack damage).
That is an interesting trade off.
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It's not just power attack that would apply twice.
Deathless Initiate also adds a bonus to damage rolls as does a Cavalier's challenge. Smite grants a bonus to damage rolls, both for Paladins and for monsters with the celestial/fiendish templates.
Sneak Attack "deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target." If rend is a separate attack, does a rogue (or vivisectionist) with Two-Weapon Rend add Sneak Attack damage to the rend in addition to any hits?
If Rend is considered a "weapon" then most damage bonuses not tied to a specific weapon get to double-dip. Notably, Inspire Courage and favoured enemy bonuses. Note that a Ranger's animal companion shares favoured enemy bonuses, and both the Ranger and the Dawnflower Dervish are already top-notch at TWF.
Interestingly, Rending Claws explicitly adds d6 damage to the second claw attack. I wonder if the author assumed that was how rend worked, or if they were intentionally preventing it from triggering the above.
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Monster Rend, Eidolon Rend, Rending Claws, and Two-Weapon Rend all use slightly different text. With slightly different arguments to be made.
So I wasn't able to find anything from a designer about rend. James Jacobs, however, has written quite a bit about it. He hates it as a player ('cause it has killed so many of his character) and agrees it could be cleaner in wording. Note that in the thread I'm about to link (from 2010, before the PFS FAQ) he says he doesn't allow Power Attack and does apply DR. It's one of those things that is probably low on the designers' agenda because a misinterpretation just means you do more or less damage than intended; it doesn't alter the mechanics. So it has little chance to alter the way the game plays. Except when it does. Like when you get rended by a monster with class levels in archaeologist Bard, who has an ally with Inspire Courage, under greater heroism, and is power attacking (and more).
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kc7z?Rend-Power-Attack#19
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It absolutely needs better wording, especially since as one of my players pointed out the wording on Eidolon Rend doesn't include the restriction against using the ability more than once per round (which could be a terror on an eidolon with 4 or more claw attacks).
Power attack alone isn't generally a big deal, but if rend is already a player-killer it doesn't take a lot of extras to turn it into a big deal. Power Attack + Smite at level/HD 12 with full-BAB is +20 damage. That damage on even one instance of rend could easily be the difference between "tough fight" and "PC death." And that doesn't require any fancy building, just an antipaladin (or paladin PC!) with Two-Weapon Rend or a Fiendish High Girallon.
DR 10 is an issue if you can't bypass it - and my group had a fight like that just last session (luckily the monster had a special weakness to exploit).
Bump
Sorry but this poped up at our gaming table last night, is it counted as a separate damage source or added to the triggering attack and if a separate source do you add other damage modifiers ie sneak etc...
And now I wonder ... let's say attack 1 is with your favourite adamantine warhammer. Attack 2 is with your second favourite cold iron handaxe. Which DR-overcoming thingy applies to the rend's damage?
I remember from a long while back, there was a discussion on rend, where the consensus came to be that it was treated just as additional damage.
This was a long while ago, however, and before the PFS ruling.
It could use some clarification, because between the SA and the PA, that is some murky waters.
Plus other damage sources which need to be thought about Favourite Enemy and Smite are the two big ones plus other sources which I am not going to list due to me possibly missing one
TWR is a special attack. It is a separate source of damage (without an attack roll) that doesn't benefit from weapon properties or bonuses restricted to weapons, or abilities that require an attack roll.
Power Attack works because it universally adds to melee damage.
Sneak Attack is generally considered to require an attack roll, so it likely shouldn't apply.In general, all forms of rend could use a little more clarification regarding what does and does not work.
I don't see how you could possibly think Sneak Attack is based on an attack roll but Power Attack is not.
Power Attack specifically requires you to decide before you make the attacks for the round if you are using it or not. The penalties are applied to each and every attack.
Sneak Attack requires no decisions (unless you tack on other special abilities as well) and happens as long as conditions are met.