My players read the previews for Rise of the Runelords and figured out that playing giantkin goblins was going to be the funnest way to do the path. A lot of people have heard about the game and want in on whatever I'm doing for CotCT so that they can experience this same backward play.
I'm not sure whether to be flattered or just hide my face in my hands, but ultimately there's no denying the fun we're having in RotRL. I correct people and give credit where credit is due (since it wasn't my idea for them to play these characters), and so I think I'm willing to run a backward CotCT game.
Now I just have to figure out what this means. The big bad is the queen, right? What if all the PCs are members of the royal family? I don't mean her immediate family, but third cousins and the like. Would that give them a similar experience?
Any suggestions are welcome.
Rakshasa allies in House Arkona. Red Mantis assassins. Brotherhood of Pathfinder #2 plague specialists.
The first two are "always evil", and I think that the players want to end up doing the heroic thing. I suppose that they could be minions of Red Mantis without being assassins, which might work. Arkonan allies other than Rakshasa might be workable, too.
The Brothers of the Seven seem like they're pretty centred in Magnimar, but I could do a Korvosan chapter of the Skinsaw Men.
With RotRL I told the players that they couldn't be evil. They could start good if they wanted to, though they'd be even more freakish to their fellow Birdcrunchers than if they were just troll-blooded goblins. All the players chose to start as chaotic neutral. They've been chafing at Ripnuggets presumption that he's in charge, and they just want the Birdcrunchers to go their own route. I've set up a very greedy Birdcruncher who will be an early target in PF#2, so that'll kick off that plot.
Thanks for the ideas!
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Rakshasa allies in House Arkona.Wait a sec, how do we know there are rakshasas in House Arkona? Did I miss something?
Well, the rakshasas have their ecology of article in Pathfinder #9, the same time House Arkona makes an appearance. Also, there are hints of it in the description of rogues in the RotR player's guide. I could just be making a post hoc fallacy though.
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Well, the rakshasas have their ecology of article in Pathfinder #9, the same time House Arkona makes an appearance. Also, there are hints of it in the description of rogues in the RotR player's guide. I could just be making a post hoc fallacy though.Rakshasa allies in House Arkona.Wait a sec, how do we know there are rakshasas in House Arkona? Did I miss something?
That is an extremely probable idea.
I suppose that they could be minions of Red Mantis without being assassins, which might work.
If you've ever seen Bill Bailey's show Part Troll, there is a bit where he makes a related joke. To paraphrase:
"Oh yes, I do work for the Axis of Evil, but I'm only in reception. Ooh, can I 'elp you? Yes, he's just on another line at the moment, I'll put you on 'old. Gee, these 'evil masterminds', always busy, eh?"
Heh. That could be fun. I mean, in an organization that size somebody has to wash the blood out of the cloaks and pack sack lunches for those long vigils.
It sounds from the blog like the game is going to start with bringing together a bunch of people who don't know each other yet share a common enemy. Maybe the theme party won't work so well in this path. I guess we'll see.
I still like some of these ideas. "Minions of House Arkona" could be a lot of fun, as could "Scoundrels Within Red Mantis". Alternately I could just give them each the half-dragon template and make them descendents of Kazavon.
Ooh, or I could make them undead members of the secret cabal that infiltrated Scarwall. They would have been the low-level flunkies who died early, and they're on an eternal quest to watch over his corpse until it can be finally destroyed. This would take some finagling in order to involve them initially, but maybe not much more than getting goblin PCs involved in Burnt Offerings.
I'm anxiously awaiting the Guide to Korvosa. I expect I'll be inspired by reading it.
Alternately I could just give them each the half-dragon template and make them descendents of Kazavon.
I like this idea the best. Maybe there is a off-shoot of the old blue dragon line that really really doesn't want to see Kazavon return to power.
However, I think a trick with this idea is that you risk spoiling some of the plot if you're not careful.
That's a good point, Gray. When they made giantkin goblins all we really had was a list of titles. I have way more information now about AP2 than I had about AP1 when they chose the party.
There's also the issue (only discovered since I made the initial post) that the reason that the party is supposed to get together is that they all want revenge against Gaedren (ie the F[i][/i]agin figure). It has a nice feel to it that I don't want to shortchange.
Do we know how reincarnation works in Golarion? Maybe the PCs are the reincarnated companions of Mandraivus, and Gaedren is either the reincarnated lieutenant of Kazavon or else Count Andachi.
I guess I don't know what's supposed to be a surprise, or how much spoiling it would do if I revealed things early. For example, it's sort of a surprise in the plot of Rise of the Runelords that there's a runelord rising, but the truth is that it wouldn't have messed up anything for the players if I'd told them that early on.
Maybe they could be descendents of Kazavon who know some sort of warped legends about him, which could contradict each other as necessary but all emphasize what a brute he was and how he dominated the rest of the family. I'd just build in some motivations for having relatives who would insist that at all costs he be prevented from coming back.
Maybe I should come up with some non-spoilery wordings of these options and then present them to the group and let them choose.
It seems to me that this path has a built in option for non-standard or anti-heroes in that they all basically want to whack the same guy. Just because he's a bad guy, doesn't mean they need to be "good" guys. If they're backstabbing, power-hungry agents in Lamm's criminal operation at the time that the path begins, there's a bit of a twist without having to change much at all.
If you want to use actual "monsters", how about a family / gang of the spider people? Forgot the name - Arenes, something like that. They can operate freely in the city in their human form without starting off too powerful that way.
If you want to use actual "monsters", how about a family / gang of the spider people? Forgot the name - Arenes, something like that. They can operate freely in the city in their human form without starting off too powerful that way.
That sounds fun. I'll have to seek those out.
The goal though isn't "monsters" per se. The way we're going about RotRL is playing the creatures who, according to a strict reading of the path, and the antagonists. Human aristocrats allied with the queen might be the closest I'm going to get for CotCT.
Ultimately it's up to my players. I've been requested to give them another "backward" option for playing the next path, and that's what I'm after.
Maybe I'll include an all-otyugh option for the players. With Int -6 and Cha -4 (and Wis +2) it'll be tricky, but six racial hit dice would help out a lot.
Something to ponder.
So you get the Otyugh with Int 12 and Cha 15 to do the talking. :)
I always feel that Otyughs get a raw deal. Sure, ability scores like the above will be unusual, but they're not impossible. Tens are even less unlikely. These are people, and they really don't deserve their lot in life. It's not their fault that they're ugly, and when it comes down to it who can blame them for being angry all the time? Maybe they just want to eat trifle and visit a museum sometimes.
I'm certainly not going to impose this choice on the players, but it seems like an option they'd enjoy pondering. It also seems more playable than an all-pseudodragon party, which is the other "Korvosa-themed monster" party that seems likely.
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Wow, bug. I gotta wonder what kind of dice (or point buy) you're using that started that PC off with a natural 18 and a 19...
PC: "Barry, is that you?"
Barry: "Hey man, how's it going? Pretty noisy up here, huh?"
PC: "Seriously, dude. Let's go check out one of those art flicks that's playing uptown."
*everyone is promptly murdered by Hellknights*
We didn't go for all-pseudodragon, but we're going to have one pdrag PC.
I think all-pdrag would be a fine campaign concept, come to think of it; easier for me to imagine than otyugh. All-imp is interesting too, though evil PCs can be tricky, and non-evil imps are a strange concept. If I didn't already have a party concept I'd actually be tempted by the pdrags.
Half pdrags and half imps is even better, aside from being very hard to justify. The abandoned pets of a charismatic, if warped, archmage, left to fend for themselves after his death? Fond of one another despite the obvious species rivalry?
Of course, none of them fight worth beans; my PC's only use in direct combat is his poison, and that has very limited applicability. On the other hand, with flight they could avoid a lot of fights. They'd want to be casters, I guess (mine is a cleric). Or perhaps rogues, though undead would then be an awful problem. I guess there are splatbook feats that allow sneak attacks on undead.
They could be casters with a fairly heavy summoning emphasis: "bodies on demand" to fill the breach. Or charm magic, so that their needs are handled by a series of charmed human "helpers".
Doggone it, you're almost selling me on this. The PC/PC dynamics intrigue me, as well as PC/pdrag and PC/imp. Let's see: two rogues, a cleric, and two sorcerers or possibly wizards (one a summoner, the other an enchanter). Or replace one sorcerer with a beguiler from PH2. If there are 6 PCs, add another cleric or a druid.
(goes away shaking her head)
Mary
Wow, bug. I gotta wonder what kind of dice (or point buy) you're using that started that PC off with a natural 18 and a 19...
It has six hit dice, so if it starts with two 18s it can theoretically have those numbers. I admitted it was rare, but the point is that this kind of creature is theoretically possible and some otyughs might feel that they're entitled to the same rights of citizenship as all those humanoids who keep dumping on them.
And I think you really captured what I'm thinking in your spoiler humour. :) Some of these guys are just folks.
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It has six hit dice, so if it starts with two 18s it can theoretically have those numbers.
The +1 attribute from HD is considered already part of the monster stats. Much like the 3 feats it earned at 1, 3 and 6 HD. So, the Otyugh bard in question will have to wait until class level 2 for that extra point of CHA.
Alternately I could just give them each the half-dragon template and make them descendents of Kazavon.
A less high-powered option would be to use the Bloodline variant in the SRD/UA. The article on Golarion dragons from the RoRL AP makes it clear that there is a large number of varied lineages in the various dragon colors/clans/families, which means it is possible to have decendents who manifest different bloodlines.
My players finished voting this morning, and we're playing this with each of them playing a member of the aristocracy. We'll make characters on Sunday.
Long live the king!
I wish I'd seen this thread earlier - I was going to suggest having the PCs be agents for another power - maybe spies for Magnimar, or even agents for some group in Cheliax.
Alright. Could you have one be a pseudodragon or an imp, perhaps a pet of the queen, perhaps connected to the pdrag trapped in The Eel's End. Have another be a were-rat working in the castle, connected on either side of the brewing were-rat dispute from CotCT's sewer scene. If one can be human, one could be a beautiful woman in the guard, soon to be kidnapped by the queen. Another could be a Derro, which hooks to the Ossuary and the sewers.
I wish I'd seen this thread earlier - I was going to suggest having the PCs be agents for another power - maybe spies for Magnimar, or even agents for some group in Cheliax.
That'd be fun! If you try it please let us know how it goes.
I made a one-page of character creation guidelines for the aristocrats. Anyone want to see it?
And roguerouge, those sound like fun ideas but we've finished voting now. Thanks for the thought!
My players finished voting this morning, and we're playing this with each of them playing a member of the aristocracy. We'll make characters on Sunday.
Long live the king!
Look forward to hearing how the campaign goes.
My group ended up playing something with only a very loose relationship to CotCT, though set in Korvosa. Only two of the PCs are aristocrats but it is essentially shaping out as an aristo game (one of those PCs is the party leader and very influential). I like the dynamic, especially since our plotline doesn't destroy Korvosa as thoroughly as the module mainline. There is a lot of scope for economic, political and arcane intrigue here, and many of the given vignettes can be adapted to that purpose.
The two PCs are daughters #5 and #6 from a minor House which deals in wine and other luxury goods, and which is currently courting an alliance with Arkona. #5 daughter was really interested in the possibility of parlaying her adventurers' fame into a marriage into Arkona--though now that she's met them, she's not so sure....
I can try to get my GM to share some plotlines, if they'd be of use.
Mary
I can try to get my GM to share some plotlines, if they'd be of use.
I'd love to see them. Thanks!
I can try to get my GM to share some plotlines, if they'd be of use.I'd love to see them. Thanks!
Delvesdeep wrote a worked-out version of the Demonskar Ball from SCAP which my GM is adapting for Korvosa (substituting Korvosans versus Shoanti for Cauldronese versus Demons in the costumes). I think it's archived on RPGenius. I'm really liking it so far. It's a chance to meet and dance with a lot of the big political players and make some friends and/or enemies. Picking the PCs' costumes was a treat in itself. Rodimar, who is stridently Varisian, did some research and figured that the only strongly positive Varisian figure on the Korvosan side was Saint Alika. So that's who he came as, which caused a bit of tut-tutting.... (No disguise magic, either, though the PCs have some; just Rodimar in drag.)
I'll ask the GM if he can write about the rest; I don't know enough myself yet.
The PCs are mainly involved with a minor-House feud between their House, Karlin, and the Gage family over wine rights. It's slowly becoming apparent that Arkona is backing the Karlins, and the PCs, while they appreciate the help, wonder why that is.
The lead PC is Karlin daughter #5 and wants to build a reputation and power base for herself so that her father won't casually marry her off. She's beginning to succeed in this goal, and realizing that this doesn't put her off the market, just ups the price--and the stakes. Certainly her father won't *casually* marry her off now. (In our lower-level version of Korvosa, five 6th level PCs and two pseudodragons represent a fairly impressive force concentration, not easily obtained by a minor house like Karlin. Lots of people are beginning to think about that.)
Mary
That sounds like fun. Thanks for posting!
I think that inter-House (and intra-House) scheming and politics will play a big part in our run of the campaign, given the nature of our PCs. I look forward to watching things develop. :)