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So I'm thinking of running the STAP in Eberron and I've read on some other threads that Iggwilv could be seen as Sora Kell in Eberron. I was wondering if anyone had done this and how this change would effect the game. Sora Kell is by all accounts a night hag, who bore the three hags that now rule Droaam. Iggwilv is a human. Is there anyway to change her into nighthag while still maintaining her wizarding powers?
Any thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated
As far as I know, Iggwilv's stats are largely moot. She is a MacGuffin, a plot device with legs. Her purpose is to drive the plot of Enemy of my Enemy and Prince of Demons, and she is, for the larger part, not an enemy to be defeated.
So that said, Sora Kell could easily be subbed in for her with little damage. Just give her some Wizard/Archmage levels similar to Iggwilv herself.
You might need to do some screwing with things like the Demonomicon, of course.
... Never mind what a damn nightmare running the last quarter of this AP in Eberron will be. Y helo thar, cosmotology that has nothing at all to do with the Great Wheel!
I mean, does Eberron even HAVE a Styx...?
And THAT'S why I ran STAP in Greyhawk. I really wish I'd run AOW in Greyhawk, too. But my group led a mini-revolt and demanded an Eberron game.
If it's in D&D, it's in Eberron. That's what they say, at least. So there SHOULD be a Styx in there somewhere, just like there should be demon lords and 30th-level wizards and the like.
That's not how it works. The statement is intended to be permissive, not proscriptive.
Anyway, I'm making the Styx into the still-flowing blood of Khyber, which circulates throughout every surreal portion of Khyber's body. Iggwilv can be Sora Kell; if the PCs attack her they've jumped the tracks anyway, so there's no worry if she's got an extra packet of hp, saves, and bab to worry about.
I think it'll work. I'll of course make them alter the Sea Wyvern so it can submerge, since Khyber's blood wouldn't politely give them air pockets all the time, but honestly the Great Wheel is not nearly so important as the personalities of the entities the PCs are dealing with.
I have to admit, KL, I like your idea of Styx-as-bloodstream for Kyber. As far as the cosmology, there are some pretty interesting hoops DMs need to jump through, but I choose to look at it as a creative challenge instead of a stumbling block. Besides, it's MUCH easier (imho) to bring stuff into Eberron than take it out (Try running Chimes of Midnight in Greyhawk... lightning rails, dragonmarks and inquisitives, oh my!).
As far as Iggwilv, I like the idea of making her Sora Kell; after all, there's more to a book than its cover, and hags are known for their powerful illusions. Then again, there's nothing that says Iggwilv can't be the single most powerful human in existence; perhaps she has Sora Kell bound into a powerful Khyber shard, and has used the hag as an erstwhile mentor (a la Bob from the Dresden Files).
Perhaps she's been a thorn in the Chamber's side, pulling rakshasa rajahs out of their gulags to learn their secrets, then sending them right back where they came from after she's done with them, regardless of the consequences it has on Eberron. You could easily tie her "dalliances" to a number of different calamities that befell Eberron, such as the Mourning (secret tampering with Cannith experiments), the death of King Jarot (a rajah's influence after she let him loose), or other notable tragedies in your campaign or player's backgrounds.
Aren't there conversion notes by Keith Baker anywhere? I remember seeing those for AoW. I thought there'd be notes for the STAP for Eberron and FR as well...
They're usually included in the web enhancements... which haven't been put out for some time, since the staff is understandably under a tight schedule for the last few months with the end of the mags and the start of Pathfinder. I'm particularly interested in seeing Keith Baker's take on the planar shenanigans, so I'm looking excitedly almost every day to see if they'll pop up.
I really like the idea of the Styx being Khyber's blood...it works perfectly for my ideas...I like the idea of Iggwilv as Sora Kell because she woould then have a substantial connection to the goings on of Khorvaire, because she has none of teh history in Eberron as she does in Greyhawk. But i dont think I like the idea of her being a night hag...too ugly....Maybe just the only human ever to attain epic levels..
Also, I was wondering if there are any resources for how to use the demon lords like Demogorgon, Grazz't, Orcus, Obox-ob etc.etc..In Eberron...like would they be rakshasha rajahs or what? I dont entirely like the idea of them all be rakshashas, but then again i guess not all the rajahs look like humanoid tigers...
Also, I was wondering if there are any resources for how to use the demon lords like Demogorgon, Grazz't, Orcus, Obox-ob etc.etc..In Eberron...like would they be rakshasha rajahs or what? I dont entirely like the idea of them all be rakshashas, but then again i guess not all the rajahs look like humanoid tigers...
From what I gathered from the article that ran in Dragon which centered around the Rajah... none of the Rajah see to look like the rakshasa. They generally have unique appearances, in fact.
And Keith made a comment in a post somewhere to the effect of: the demon lords are powerful entities that aren't actually Rajahs, but very powerful fiends nonetheless. (And, looking at the Lords of Dust article once more, we see the avergae Rajah seems to weigh in very close to a Rank 7 diety)
Yeah. Baker himself said, long time ago, that the Rajas are unique, both among the creatures that revere them (the Rakshasha) and among all other beings. (Something like that. If you'd read the Dragon article on the Lords of Dust, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about.)
That said, a demon lord (or devil lord, yugoloth lord, celestial paragon...) would fall into the "epic" category, but still a fair bit under the Rajas themselves.
And of course there is a place for demon lords and 30th-level archmages in Eberron. I never meant to imply otherwise. Just that the conversion is going to be harrowing... But I agree that it's much easier to transplant TO Eberron than FROM. Removal of Warforged in general can be hours of your time, and that's just for openers.
But... The still-fresh blood of Khyber? I like that. I really like that. You could easily explain a river of divine blood reaching through the planes. And Charon's mastery over it would make sense- Even as remote as it is, relitively simple Prime Planar access to the planes is something that could prove lucrative...
I would shy away from making the Rajahs "Rank X Deities" as per the rules from Deities&Demigods. In spite of the occasional lip service paid to it in setting material since it was printed, the text is basically nonfunctional as a tool for any existing campaign setting. It serves Eberron even less well. Considering the absolute and total lack of support in 3.5, or indeed ever since it flopped on the FLGS shelves, it might be best to simply consider it apocrypha. The Rajahs can be whatever you need them to be for your campaign.
I think that Demogorgon serves admirably as an actual Rajah, if you want your campaign to end on a decisive note, one way or the other. The official conversion notes suggest making Demogorgon one of the generals of a sealed Rajah, but Eberron has no compelling need for there to be an entire tier of bad guys higher in CR than 33, since there are no ultra-leveled good NPCs around to threaten suspension of disbelief. As statted, Demogorgon can trivially solo all of Sharn. CR 33 is also conveniently just a few CR above the ancient wyrms of the Council, who fought the Rajahs to a standstill in ages past. Ultimately, if we invent some CR50 teams on both sides to force a mutual cease-fire in order to have our CR50 boss of Demogorgon, we don't accomplish anything useful except to deprotagonize the PCs.
The Demon Lords, the Lords of the Nine, and others can seemlessly step in as the primeval villains of Eberron. Levistus, in fact, has even been explicitly suggested as a sealed Rajah. I think, however, that it is best to discard the notion that they stay politely on their individual teams. Just as Balors, Pit Fiends, and Firre all live together on Fernia, perhaps Demogorgon and Levistus used to rule together as Rajah in ages past, and perhaps Orcus and Geryon once invaded together from Xoriat, in spite of the Great Wheel allegiances of the figures who have the same name and stats.
Of course, there's still Shavraat, Dal Quor, the Rings of Syberis, and many other locations for versions of the Great Wheel exemplars to live. If you want to use somebody, and he or she doesn't fit in well as a Rajah or a Daelkyr, surely there is somewhere that fits perfectly.