I love my Item Cards, and I'll surely grab some Critical Hit Cards (unbalancing and anti-PC as they may be), but what I'd really like to see are Spell Cards. It would be so handy to have all of each spell's information on a single card for the player or me to hold. No more disputes about duration, effect, or the consequences of a partial save. No more book-flipping delays.
So how about a new line of products sure to sell like wildfire? Don't make me start a company, go into competition with you, and drive you clean out of the market. Spell Cards please!
Something like that does exist by someone else, albeit I think they are extremely cheaply done. (Not in a print it yourself sense, but in a low production value sense).
http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1980
I love the idea, hate the implementation. Thankfully I have a crazy memory serve as both the groups DM and resident rules lawyer.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I love my Item Cards, and I'll surely grab some Critical Hit Cards (unbalancing and anti-PC as they may be), but what I'd really like to see are Spell Cards. It would be so handy to have all of each spell's information on a single card for the player or me to hold. No more disputes about duration, effect, or the consequences of a partial save. No more book-flipping delays.
I am 100% behind this. I would totally buy them if they were offered (at a reasonable price, of course). I would recommend having the borders colored according to school of magic so that you can tell, at a glance, if any feats or effects would apply to amplify or diminish a spell's effects. Artwork would also be cool, but would likely be pricey and result in larger cards (or smaller text) so I would take them with or without art.
Great idea, Ash.
We've thought about these, but there's a few technical considerations.
First, spells have variable amounts of text, some being quite long to explain the effects.
Would you be happy with abbreviated text for very complex spells?
Would be be happy with a larger card size, if it meant all the text could fit?
Would you want to see art showing the spell's effect, or is a description enough?
How would you want to buy them? By school? By class? By level? All at once? The downside of buying them by level is that we probably wouldn't sell very many packs of high-level spells, which is the downside of buying them all at once too, since you end up with a bunch of spells you won't use.
Let us know what you want though! We'd love to make this product become reality!
Something I did for my last few spellcasting characters...
I took some old Magic cards (I have boxes and boxes down in the basement, lol) and picked out the ones with art that I liked.
Some, like Fireball and Lightning bolt, are no-brainers, nothing needs to be done.
With others, I took a Silver Marker and wrote the spell name across the top.
And for all of them, I wrote the book and page number in the text section of the card.
So now I have cards for all the spells I usually use, so its easy to see what I have left, what has been cast, etc.
If a spell has a duration, I just put a sticky note or dice on top with the relevant timing info.
This isn't as good as an actual spell deck from Game Mastery, but how many spells are there in OGL content? Must be ~500 easily. Thats a lot of cards, and a lot of art to order, etc.
So I can understand why it woldn't be feasible.
We've thought about these, but there's a few technical considerations.
First, spells have variable amounts of text, some being quite long to explain the effects.
Would you be happy with abbreviated text for very complex spells?
Would be be happy with a larger card size, if it meant all the text could fit?
Would you want to see art showing the spell's effect, or is a description enough?
How would you want to buy them? By school? By class? By level? All at once? The downside of buying them by level is that we probably wouldn't sell very many packs of high-level spells, which is the downside of buying them all at once too, since you end up with a bunch of spells you won't use.
Let us know what you want though! We'd love to make this product become reality!
Very simple.
Item Card like. (size, colors, graphics)
1) Spell Name
2) Small Artwork showing effect, or some other representative picture. (may be hard with charm spells or other spells w/o much visual effect)
In lieu of a picture a great descriptive text, much like what's in the spell compendium would work.
3) Spell stats, such as range, target, saves, duration, etc.
4) The short spell description found under the spell lists for each spell.
5) Put a reference to what book and page number the spell can be found for full text.
I'd buy the what, 1000+ spells out there? We're at $10 for 50 cards right now. So that'd be $200 or so for all the spells in the game?
You could sell them by spell school, or by class, but the best way would be by spell level.
Buy all the level 0 and 1 spells for $25 or whatever. So when you first start a character, you buy all the spells. Then when you hit 3rd level, you go out and buy 2nd level spells. (or 2nd and 3rd grouped together).
The second best would be by class. Sure there'd be doubles, but so what. Common spells will be needed by multiple PCs and NPCs.
Bottom line, if they're useful, and pretty, I'll buy. Paizo is definitely going the right way with all the great hands-on products!
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I largely agree with Kyle's ideas. However, if the spell is referenced in multiple books, make sure to include ALL the 3.5 books it is referenced in (since Spell Compendium is full of reprints and a lot of people, myself included, haven't picked it up since we've got all the other books anyway).
I like the idea of selling them grouped by spell levels. 0 and 1st, 2nd and 4rd, 4th and 5th, 6th and 7th, 8th and 9th. Artwork would be awesome if you can work it out. Also, as I mentioned before, maybe have the borders colored according to school of magic or at least have a little colored bubble in the top corner to show what school it belongs to at a glance. If it mentions it in the text, people are more inclined to gloss over it when it might actually be relevant (I've done this before).
For example, if someone casts an Enchantment spell and they have Spell Focus (Enchantment), they might forget to adjust the save DC because they weren't really thinking about it. For color coding, I believe there is a 2nd Ed. book that arranges the spell schools like a color wheel and each school has an associated color with it. You should use that for your color scheme.
I agree with kyle and fatespinner.
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If Paizo makes Spell Cards I'll buy them...
But don't discount the Spell Cards from The Other Game Company. It's actually a great product for the price!
I would prefer it to be officially licensed... That way they can then produce additional expansions as new books come out.
Also, I wonder what the SpC spells fall under... The names and short descriptions can be found on their consolidated index.
The problem with listing all the other books a certain spell can be found is that the latest book published is considered the "offical" version. Look at Bolt of Glory. I the SpC it rocks. In the BoED, it's so-so. I'd much rather it reference the SpC.
Having these from just the SRD is okay, but most of us already know those spells by heart, and if we were ONLY using those spells, the value of these cards could be diminished. I like to think the idea of these cards is much like the WotC ToB Maneuver cards they put out as a pdf. As we've started to experiment with martial classes, those cards have been invaluable. (I'd still buy a higher production value version though. I have having to print shtuff out!)
1) WotC is often too blind to realize a good product when they see it.
2) The cards would only have the short description of the spell. For the full rules, it would have a reference to the book which it's found. I don't see how they lose? They get a license fee, and people who want to really use the non SRD spells either buy the SpC, or borrow (or pirate of course). There's also no risk on their end if the product doesn't sell.
the cards don't have to be playing card sized. They could be larger. I think they should be packaged by class -0th to 9th.That way when you start a new char you have all the cards ready to go. I would like to see them include the spells from spell compendium. You have stated you are still on good terms with WotC so would this be possible?
By class for the big spell casters and maybe grouping some of the other classes together, (such as Bards & Paladins)
The Front should have Art, The Stats (ie Range, Level School) Etc
Back should have the Discription
One thing I HATED about the ITems cards was that there wan't any of the useful into on the Front. Would have liked to see the art a little smaller, and either as spot or preprinted info on it
Ring +2 (defelection) or Ring ____ (______________)
The Space on the Back is TO small and for the Love of the GODS please DON"T make them Random - (the Main reason that I on'y bought one pack of the main item cards)
Spell Cards are a GREAT idea - I'd buy ALL the spell cards Paizo would put out.
Either size would be good- item card size (easy to put in sleeves) or larger size (for nice art/full descriptions)
Sell them by the level, and none of this random business! - Random item cards were the worst idea Paizo has EVER had.
I don't care what the spell cards would cost.... if they were a TOP quality product- I'll buy them!
My money is absolutely burning a hole in my Pocket and I'd just love to give it to Paizo..... so., Paizo... give me a reason!
I would go with "The Other Game Company" Spell Cards. I bought them and use them in my games. Very useful. I also think they are great value for money. I print mine out and then laminate them to give them a bit of durability.
Olaf the Stout
While I applaud you on your effort Olaf, all I can personally respond with is "ugh."
I hate most pdf print-outs. They work great for wanted posters, or menus or other trivial things, but for something that's a) Supposed to have a WOW factor and b) going to be reused a ton, they suck (w/o either wasting more ink or going to great lengths, such as Mr. Stout).
Another note to point out. We want versatility too. Please don't make a separate card for a "divine" Bull's Strength, and an "arcane" Bull's strength. Blech!
Here's a VERY crude sample of what's in my head. It's what I could do in 5 minutes at work with MS Paint. Yippie!
(Obviously blatently stolen from Paizo's Relic's of War page. My apologies in advance if I shouldn't have!
Now that I'm looking at it, I think I want the spell level on the front. And the "lame" description is word for word out of the SRD. Not sure if that's better than a redone short description...
The spelldescriptions like those presented at www.crystalkeep.com (for example http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Spells-SorcererWizard.pdf) would work on spell cards. You could have the rules plus a cool visual (or description tekst with enchantments for example).
Fireball(PH p231)
<Evoc[fire], VSM(bat guano, sulfur), 1StdAct, Longrange, Ref½>
– Everything in a 20’ radius Burst take 1d6/lvl Fire damage (max 10d6).
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We've thought about these, but there's a few technical considerations.
First, spells have variable amounts of text, some being quite long to explain the effects.
Would you be happy with abbreviated text for very complex spells?
Would be be happy with a larger card size, if it meant all the text could fit?
Would you want to see art showing the spell's effect, or is a description enough?
How would you want to buy them? By school? By class? By level? All at once? The downside of buying them by level is that we probably wouldn't sell very many packs of high-level spells, which is the downside of buying them all at once too, since you end up with a bunch of spells you won't use.
Let us know what you want though! We'd love to make this product become reality!
There was a company that did this with 3.0...I forget which one... apologies to them.
They released a set as Arcane and Divine.
Don't need the art... need the convenience... and I know everyone seems to love those baseball sized cards, but they are really hard on these old eyes... bigger cards would be nice.
For my sorcerer I played (very briefly) I used 4x6 cards and copied the text from some SRD source for every spell I knew. Made it nice and easy to read.
Bigger cards for us old folks please.
While I applaud you on your effort Olaf, all I can personally respond with is "ugh."
I hate most pdf print-outs. They work great for wanted posters, or menus or other trivial things, but for something that's a) Supposed to have a WOW factor and b) going to be reused a ton, they suck (w/o either wasting more ink or going to great lengths, such as Mr. Stout).
Another note to point out. We want versatility too. Please don't make a separate card for a "divine" Bull's Strength, and an "arcane" Bull's strength. Blech!
Personally I don't think cutting them out and laminating them was that much of an effort. Personally I like the fact that they are in PDF. I can print out as many copies as I need that way.
While fancy pre-printed spell cards would look much nicer, they would cost a lot more than I would be willing to pay for them. These cards cost me about $10-$15 from memory (plus whatever it costs to print and laminate them - basically nothing in my case). I can't imagine being able to get a copy (in some case multiple copies) of all the SRD spells for anywhere near that much. Each to his own I guess.
Olaf the Stout
There was a company that did this with 3.0...I forget which one... apologies to them.
They released a set as Arcane and Divine.
Don't need the art... need the convenience... and I know everyone seems to love those baseball sized cards, but they are really hard on these old eyes... bigger cards would be nice.
For my sorcerer I played (very briefly) I used 4x6 cards and copied the text from some SRD source for every spell I knew. Made it nice and easy to read.
Bigger cards for us old folks please.
I'm pretty sure you are thinking of The Other Game Company, the company that I referred to earlier in the thread. They also have 3.5E spell cards.
Olaf the Stout
I also own "The Other Game Company" Spell Cards
To put it simply - they are just not acceptable (in my book).
They are fine for the “low Budget/ quick fix” … but in the end, in my opinion…. not really worth the effort.
I agree with Kyle Baird, the cards should be TOP quality – nice artwork up front and text on back.
I don’t mind paying the price for quality.
Many gamers are busy- they have work, family, lives… not always a lot of time to download PDFs, then print them and laminate.
Give me a TOP quality product, and I’ll gladly hand over the CASH!
Sell the cards in packs by the level (levels 0 to 9)
Do NOT make the card packs random, keep them in complete sets.
God, I'd love to have these!! I use 3x5 or 4x6 index cards with handwritten notes about my usual spells the BBGs are packing which helps keep the books in my PCs hands and saves me flippin around in the 'heat' of battle! I have them paperclipped together with the name of the BBG who the spells belong with!
~ Top quality is highly desired!
~ Art work to me is secondary.
~ Sell them either by level or as a class pack. Sure you get some spells you may never use, but, you have to flip through them in the book so this would be a step up as you could leave the unused ones out.
~ Color coding the edges sounds like a winner idea!
Hope this happens!
~ Wallsingham ~
Personally I don't think cutting them out and laminating them was that much of an effort. Personally I like the fact that they are in PDF. I can print out as many copies as I need that way.
While fancy pre-printed spell cards would look much nicer, they would cost a lot more than I would be willing to pay for them. These cards cost me about $10-$15 from memory (plus whatever it costs to print and laminate them - basically nothing in my case). I can't imagine being able to get a copy (in some case multiple copies) of all the SRD spells for anywhere near that much. Each to his own I guess.
Olaf the Stout
Exactly.
I want the cards for thier ease of use not becasue they are pretty. Pretty is nice, I have the TOGC spell cards too and duplex printing them on cardstock works just fine for me. If one of them gets damaged or lost, REPRINT!!
Dont get me wrong, I like the Paizo cards. I just bought two packs of the Critical Hit Deck for my Age of Worms game, but the spell cards would cost way too much over time. Also what about expansions for other spells that are not part of the SRD? At least with TOGC cards there are blank templates that you can use, once you type in the spell and save it it there for useage and youre not dependant on Paizo or anyone else to produce new spell cards for things like the Complete Series or the Spell Compendium.
Yeah, nice spell looking spell cards would be a great idea, but I'd have to pass on that one. Let Paizo keep coming up with cool utility cards like the Critical Hit Deck or equipment cards.