Okay, I just spent some 15 or so minutes typing out a big long post explaining the details of a situation in the last session I ran in the STAP. I went to hit the preview button and I got re-directed to the main paizo homepage. My excellent explanation and my request for opinions is not lost to cyberspace.
Anyway, because I don't wantt o type all that up again, my situation is this:
I just ended the STAP camapaign I was running because one of the players (who's character was the captain of the Sea Wyvern) decided that he wanted to spend more time argueing about how his character had the right to treat the passengers aboard the ship (we had just started chapter 3 tonight) likes his own personal slaves rather than actually play the game.
I'd given this players three chances. Strike one was when he attacked my livelihood. I am in sales, and he insisted one night that he knew more about the product I sold than i do, and everything I know aboutthe product is wrong and should therefore quit my job and find something else. Strike two was when his character used public urination twice on one session (once as an intimidation tactic, once as an attack/distraction). Strike three was tonight when his character learned that there would be passengers on the sea wyvern for the journey to the isle of dread and announced that passengers aren't allowed on his ship and that after the joruney got on it's way, if they didn't want to do the work that he'd assign to them they'd be thrown overboard.
Now, I was going to let the session end normally and then tell all the players seperately that there would not be another session, until the player announced that the captain was forcing all the passengers onto the deck (away from the bilge where they were quartered) and forced to strip naked so that they could be searched for spellcasting components (he wanted to know who summoned a water mephit). At that point I packed my books and dice and left.
Am I too thin-skinned to be DMing? The player did know he was on his last chance after getting the first two strikes in the first session of Chapter 1.
First off, copy your typed text before hitting preview or submit ALWAYS. I've lost so many posts that I didn't feel like re-typing because the page timed out. Or type it in Word and then paste it here when you're ready to submit it.
As far as that player, I'm curious to know just how this guy got so much power that he was pulling this crap. What were the other players doing? Why did the crew not simply mutiny and throw his sorry ass overboard? Or better yet, the other characters do it? And what about the key NPCs in the adventure? Did you not include them in the adventure?
Was this guy the driving force of the campaign? Couldn't you have simply told him "There's the door. You aren't welcome in my game anymore"?
You being thin-skinned? No. But it sounds like you need some practice at how to deal with obnoxious players. You can simply get rid of them (it's quite easy after the first time, trust me, I've bounced plenty) or use in-game tactics to torment and embarass them until they quit on their own (not my preferred method, but sometimes worth it).
In the situation you described above, I probably would have waited until that last incident about demanding that the passengers strip down for a search (this wasn't actually carried out was it?! Who would have carried the orders out?) and promptly in-game used one of the passengers to voice what they all would have been thinking, "Hey! This is enough! We don't have to take anymore of this!" Turn those heretofore peaceful farmers and craft folk into a furious Mob (CR 8) from DMG II and beat the living crap out of him, lock him in the brig, and turn him over to the authorities at the next opportunity. You could easily cite all manner of maritime laws that he had broken and be perfectly justified. Whoever's next in line in the rank of authority assumes the role of Captain (hopefully another more deserving player) or use a likely NPC.
My take on things is based solely on your description. I'm sure there's more to it. There always is :|
A very similar situation happened with our group, nearly two years ago.
We'd been playing as a DM and 4 players for quite some time, and one of the players had begun to get quite annoying to everyone else. He was the type who would always play characters that would try to cheat or backstab other PCs at some point in the campaign. Once every few campaigns, I have no problem with a surprise evil turn from one of the PCs - it can be fun and dramatic. But this guy, it was always the same story - he just got more fun out of bullying other players than actually following the main plot (which everyone else was quite into).
Finally, the last straw came one day when we were playing at his apartment, and the player in question had had a few too many drinks. So he started getting quite obnoxious, making his character do stupid things just for the sake of amusing himself (while all the rest of us were trying to be serious). We told him, not for the first time, that he was ruining the fun for the rest of us, but he didn't seem to care.
So I, as DM, had simply had enough, and told him that if he wanted to simply do his own thing and not work with the rest of us to make things fun for everyone - then he could spend his next Saturday alone, playing Everquest or something - cause we didn't want him around anymore. That provoked a brief argument as we were cleaning up and packing up our things (it was the end of the session anyway). I told him we'd be in touch over the course of the week.
On the car ride home, we discussed the matter, and all of us agreed that the player in question had been ruining things for all of us for many months now - so I made the suggestion, which was agreed upon, to simply cut him loose. He'd been a friend for a couple of years, but in all honesty, none of us even really considered him all that close of a friend anymore.
So I wrote him an e-mail and talked to him on the phone, and pretty much straight-out told him that we'd all come to the decision that he just wasn't wanted around anymore, since he was turning a fun weekly tradition into an oftentimes frustrating experience for everyone. D&D was supposed to be fun, and the guy in question clearly wasn't finding it fun enough for him anymore, so to keep himself entertained he was spoiling the rest of our fun.
He was quite upset, and the friendship quickly faded away - though we did get together one last time for a concert we'd already all bought tickets for, months earlier. We at first felt bad and wondered if we'd been too hard on him.
Then we started up a fresh campaign, without him around. And suddenly everything just seemed brand new again. It was as though this parasite had been sucking the life out of our D&D sessions, without us even realizing to what extent.
We played through the Eberron adventure series, and it was the best campaign we'd had in months.
Then I DM-ed the group through Shackled City, with only the three remaining players as PCs - and it became the best campaign we'd had IN YEARS.
Now 75% of the way through Age of Worms, and looking ahead to Savage Tide and a Dragonlance Key of Destiny campaign - it's become quite clear that removing that single negative element from our D&D game has been the best decision we have ever made, and quite likely saved our D&D group from extinction.
Had he still been around, we likely would not still be playing today. Without him, we are now enjoying D&D more than ever, and look forward to many more years of great times together.
So, bottom line, I would just suggest that you meet up with the other players and discuss the situation. Likely, they share similar feelings to yours. And if that's the case, then stand your ground and tell the loser to get lost. You'll be glad you did.
Best of luck to you!
No, you aren't being too thin-skinned.
There is a certain subset of the gamer population that is part of our group because they don't have enough social skills or basic human decency to cope in regular life. Since gamers are often socially inept themselves or otherwise unwilling to enter into conflict with other gamers, the members of this particular subset can bully their way through the other players, getting what they want at the expense of the group.
Not gaming is better than bad gaming.
I disagree with some of the things said by previous posters in this thread -- in-game solutions like making a CR 8 Commoner Mob will not correct an out-of-game problem, which is a player's power trip. You have only a few choices, and kicking him to the curb is a good one. (Another good one is to talk to him, but doing so may or may not work.)
On the other hand, there's no reason to think you can't salvage the game itself once the malignant element is removed. Try contacting the other players, saying, "Player X will no longer be playing with us due to an unfortunate conflict in playing style. The next game will be at time and location N, and Player X's character will now be a minor NPC. Events in the last game will be slightly retconned in the following ways:"
Chances are the other players will understand your position, and in fact they may ask what took you so long to get rid of the disruptive player. But bottom line, you do NOT have to tolerate that sort of behavior.
I disagree with some of the things said by previous posters in this thread -- in-game solutions like making a CR 8 Commoner Mob will not correct an out-of-game problem, which is a player's power trip.
Now, now, Kobold Lord, I did say it was not my preferred method in the paragraph before that. It's just awfully fun to mess with a guy like this a little bit before giving him the boot. Just saying what I would have done, but not necessarily saying that's the answer.
Anyway, good suggestions you've provided.
Thank you all for your feedback and opinions. I do understand how difficult it is to give a jodgement of the situation based solely on MY perspective of it.
As far as the suggestion to kick the player out during the middle of a session, I actually attempted that. But, seeing as how the game was not being run at my house, the host player refused to have his friend kicked out of his house.
I'm thinking that there could be some truth to the said player's social skills. He doesn't get out of the house much, his only social interaction he gets apparently is with his wife, son, and now the five DnD sessions these past few monthes. My gaming group in the past consisted of myself and two other players. Both of them have been playing D&D since the beginning, I only started with 3rd edition. the problem player used to game with my other two players years and years ago, but stopped after getting married at the request of his wife.
Now, my friend who's house we game at runs into his old gaming buddy and invites him into our game. I agree cause I'm always on the look out for new players. So, the first session comes and the guy and his teenage son show up (apparently, the only way the guy's let out of the house without his wife is if he has his son as a chaperone so that he won't sneak off and cheat on his wife).
I've never had a problem with his son, the kid's a good gamer. But he just started rubbing me raw, right from the start. Since our gaming sessions are a month apart, in between the sessions I talk with my two original players and explain to them how close the STAP campaign is to ending. I tell them that if it ends I start running something new, a 2d0 Modern campaign.
If a player is getting his jollies by peeing on someone, he clearly has no place in a serious story; if he's upsetting you he's got no place in your game.
My two cents is that you ask the other players if they'd like to start SWW again, retconned so that he is absent and Amellia is captain.
~ Bryon ~
There Is no reason to have you or the other respectable gamers to lose out because of one idiot! Have an aspect of Demogorgon suddenly appear on the boat and literally rip that character from the inside out and tell your nasty little friend there bye,bye the end! And continue with this awesome adventure path. Hope eveything works out.
DAve
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Keelhaul his character sez oye.
Marooning's a good option too.
Or Deadman's chest--the whole party aginn him on a sandbar...
Or is he salvageable--could you all talk to him and tell him to quit being such a dinkbutt? I can't judge that or not, for I'm not there, but I know that some people in life can be a real toxic buzzkill and it's better to move on from a bad chapter.
I disagree with some of the things said by previous posters in this thread -- in-game solutions like making a CR 8 Commoner Mob will not correct an out-of-game problem, which is a player's power trip.Now, now, Kobold Lord, I did say it was not my preferred method in the paragraph before that. It's just awfully fun to mess with a guy like this a little bit before giving him the boot. Just saying what I would have done, but not necessarily saying that's the answer.
I'm with you guys. In-game punishment for an annoying player is "like, so 5th grade!" Just boot the offending player to the curb (or, if you like the guy, start a new campaign full of piss-boys to play with him on off-weekends).
I think a lot of people are missing one important aspect of this particular situation that the original poster has alluded to. I completely concur that a player like this should be kicked to the curb if he doesn't fit in the group. I have done this type of thing myself in the game (and the PC became a great recurring villian).
But the missing thing about kicking someone out of your group is that your group has to agree with you. According the poster he tried to kick the player out mid-game and the other player whose home it was refused to allow his friend to be kicked out. This means that his group just might not agree with him. It very well could be that he is the one who doesn't fit in the group. Sad as that is, it could be time for him to find a new group.
Bottom line is that this has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with interpersonal interactions. He needs to speak to the other players and get their read. The game can't go on like it is, one of the two need to leave... it is really up to the group which it is. If they don't want to make a decision then I would choose to leave myself. Compromises are just likely to drag things out.
Sean Mahoney
Sean Mahoney
Hmmm... your name rings a bell. You don't happen to know anyone named Chuck Stackhouse, do you?
I think a lot of people are missing one important aspect of this particular situation that the original poster has alluded to. I completely concur that a player like this should be kicked to the curb if he doesn't fit in the group. I have done this type of thing myself in the game (and the PC became a great recurring villian).
But the missing thing about kicking someone out of your group is that your group has to agree with you. According the poster he tried to kick the player out mid-game and the other player whose home it was refused to allow his friend to be kicked out. This means that his group just might not agree with him. It very well could be that he is the one who doesn't fit in the group. Sad as that is, it could be time for him to find a new group.
Bottom line is that this has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with interpersonal interactions. He needs to speak to the other players and get their read. The game can't go on like it is, one of the two need to leave... it is really up to the group which it is. If they don't want to make a decision then I would choose to leave myself. Compromises are just likely to drag things out.
Sean Mahoney
He's the DM. If he goes, the adventure ends. Even so, it is NOT his responsibility to sacrifice his own enjoyment so a jerk can literally piss all over his NPCs. If the other players also like pissing on NPCs, then they can find their own DM.
That's all the compromise the OP need offer: "If you guys want me to DM, this guy needs to go." Playing in somebody else's house requires you to use more tact than normal... but no venue is worth tolerating an abusive player.
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txwad, the situation you just described from your game seems pretty childish and offensive to me. If that sort of thing is acceptable in your game, fine, but no need to share it with the rest of us.
Anyway, why would you assume that the events in your campaign are happening for no reason? Theres every chance that there was a very good reason for such an event that would be revealed later in the campaign, its not just the NPC (or your DM) being malacious.
I agree with the general sentiment of "if talking dont work, boot him". Majority rules: if the majority want him, he stays, you choose if you go. If the majority don't want him, he goes. That simple.
And I agree with the other posters regarding childish behaviors: if thats appropriate material for your game, so be it, but don't assume it is for ours, or that we want to hear about it. If I ran a BoVD evil game, I wouldn't post details about events in it without warnings ahead of time. Show others the same respect please.
And finally, Txwad, if it was an assination, it wasn't for no reason. An assasination is specifically a murder for a reason, political, personal, or otherwise. If I was the recipient of an attempted assassination, I'd be pissed, for sure. Then I'd find out who, why, and then where, and go deliver some "freindly retorts".
With respect to mothman and others, I think your image of "real" is amusing. Of course, you are free to run whatever kind of candy ass game you want and I realize that many gamers have led a pretty cossetted life but the 'real' world even today, and god forbid you are talking historically or in fantasy literature, can be a pretty rough place with a great deal of jubilation at the defeat of one's foes.
TXWAD, nothing said here previously deserves such a rude and condescending reply. Whether you like it or not, these boards are pretty much PG-13 and for the most part those of us that like to frequent them prefer it that way. Play nice, that's all. If you need to talk about your glorious urinations or defiling your in-game kills, etc. might I suggest Circvs Maximvs over on ENWorld.
My two cents is that you ask the other players if they'd like to start SWW again, retconned so that he is absent and Amellia is captain.
~ Bryon ~
I think you should have Lavina step in. In game, the journey will slow to a crawl as the first mate has to step up and learn to captain. Out of game, this doesn't need to slow things down at all. If no PCs want to captain, then you still have NPC sailors and the Jade Ravens. The PC that got bounced would be in a make-shift brig (I suggest the pantry) as an NPC until he could be dealt with. No retconning needed.
Out of game, talk with the problem player (you did), talk with the other players (you did), talk with the problem guy again (you did), then bounce him like a rubber ball (you did!)
With respect to mothman and others, I think your image of "real" is amusing. Of course, you are free to run whatever kind of candy ass game you want and I realize that many gamers have led a pretty cossetted life but the 'real' world even today, and god forbid you are talking historically or in fantasy literature, can be a pretty rough place with a great deal of jubilation at the defeat of one's foes.
Yeah, whatever. Making a crude stone sex organ and pissing on it is not the sort of role-playing that is worth my time. It is childish and puerile, and while it is technically possible for it to fit a character that is childish and puerile I like to have some standards starting at chargen. Anybody who insistently pulled such stunts at my table would be booted.
You can feel free to role-play however you like with your close friends, but if you talk about that sort of thing in a public forum such as this, you are simply going to have to tolerate a modicum of pity. There is no need to insult our games for not stooping to the lowest common denominator.
I will add, that while I am generally not so bothered by blood and gore, or even crude or sexual references, even in forums, I am rather bothered by seriously Misogynistic comments, such a urinating into.... well there is not need for me to repeat it. Gaming already has a bad enough rep, what with the endless covers of bad fantasy Frank Frazetta knock offs, with buxom blonds and half naked nixies, we do not need more misogyny than we already are dealing with.
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Yeah, whatever. Making a crude stone sex organ and pissing on it is not the sort of role-playing that is worth my time. It is childish and puerile, and while it is technically possible for it to fit a character that is childish and puerile I like to have some standards starting at chargen. Anybody who insistently pulled such stunts at my table would be booted.
100% agreement. I don't want to game with people who want to pee, or crap on a vanquished foe or use stone shape to make a female sex organ. An off color joke is one thing but I ain't gaming with Howard Stern here, leave the juvenile, "hee, hee, I'll make it look like naked girl parts, hee, hee" stuff at home. It only serves to give a bad impression of the game to people, and it just isn't needed to make a point in game.
I would also boot the offender as a DM or talk to the group and decide which one was leaving (me or the offender)the group as a player.FH
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In my 26 years of gaming I have ran across only 2 people who were problem gamers...One was my friends brother who liked to attack the party when the main bad guy showed up..That was when I was 13.... Now a friend of mine invited a friend of his into our game...In my house I do not let anyone smoke ,they must go outside. Most of my gamer friends smoke ,so I have set up smoke breaks about every hour for a short break.. This player always talks when I try to read the boxed text and always get up to go smoke when we start a battle,even after I stated my house rules for a fast and fun paced game.So as to not hurt his feelings and some of my other players, I moved my game night to a night he was not able to make it..I have not told any of my friends my feelings on this player , it really boils down to me not really liking him., its not that he is a bad guy or even that he is not a good gamer ( he does ok when he sits at the table)I just do not really like him because he slows down my pace .This gamer and I have never attacked each other on a personal level.I have not played a game with this player for about a year now and our games have been great....( part of this also was from his and another players drinking habits when they get together)So I just moved my game to another night and quit playing with him.....Now if this is really hurting your group you must ask them what there feelings are about his player or there feelings about you..And if they want to play with you somewhere else.
Txwd, I respect your grognardery. I've done some of those things... about 10-15 years ago when that stuff was still funny and entertaining. But never took the time to create make-believe genitalia. (ewwwww!) For me, that kind of gaming just doesn't cut it. I'm pushing 40 soon and I guess my sense of humor leans more to the witty satire and clever role-playing elements of the game. Not the toilet humor pranks and burns that used to give me a laugh back in the day.
What bothers me the most about what the OP said in his first post was this:
Strike two was when his character used public urination twice on one session (once as an intimidation tactic, once as an attack/distraction). Strike three was tonight when his character learned that there would be passengers on the sea wyvern for the journey to the isle of dread and announced that passengers aren't allowed on his ship and that after the joruney got on it's way, if they didn't want to do the work that he'd assign to them they'd be thrown overboard.
In the context that he's pulling this stuff with his son also playing the game, it's just a really disturbing image to me. For all I know, the son could be my age, but it still bothers me. It seems to just send the wrong message to a next generation gamer about what the game is all about.
What's important, though, is that it obviously bothers the OP and the recalcitrant player had been asked to distontinue that behavior and would not. A successful gaming group needs to be built on mutual respect of each other and the rules (house or other) that they all agree upon. Perhaps this group never discussed what acceptable behaviour would be in their game or they never hashed out the rules. A lot of groups don't, simply because they consider themselves pretty much like minded "normal" individuals and the lines of socially acceptable and unacceptable behavior never get crossed.
Hopefully, this guy doesn't have to see all the work he put into getting his campaing going go to waste. It would be a shame.
"the Times they are a changing". That was sung what, 44 years ago or so.
By the way, when I speak of Misogynistic, not a term I throw around lightly, I mean it. Pissing on female genitalia, in order to defile and demean, is misogynistic. Any 1st year college student would agree on that definition. But lets put that battle aside, leave that flame war for another day, shall we, and discuss the larger picture, which keys back into the main posting.
Gaming has changed. I should know, I have been gaming for 22 years now, and have seen it change over my lifetime. In fact I have loved that fact, and have accepted and taken on these new changes, after some misgivings and careful review.
Howard Lovecraft, Gygax et. all. These were the greats, and in many ways they still are great. But times have changed. I frankly dislike Gygaxian style D&D. And I know of no gamers who do like it. I know there are you out there who still relish it, and thats cool, just realize that times have changed and the world has moved on. I have met people that still play AD&D. I know people that still play 2nd Ed. Thats fine, just realize that those games are no longer the status quo, as it were, that they are anachronisms.
I have read nigh everything that Howard and Lovecraft have written. I love the stuff. Heck, I even collect Arkham House 1st editions, and have a stuffed summer Fun Cthulhu Plush. But I would be the first to admit that as writers, they both sucked. I mean 95% of the time, and the other 5% was probably accidental (I am somewhat exaggerating, but really Steinbecks they were not). They were pulp writers, Howard even took pride in that, I suspect Lovecraft tried to rise himself above that, through his letters and other means. But what is really, anachronistic about both Howard and Lovecraft is the ethnocentric racism that runs through their stories and books. I hate it. It bothers me greatly. Yet I still enjoy their stories, but I will always tack on the note that I recognize and realize that there are serious faults to them.
They wrote their stories pre-WWII. Lovecraft and Howard both practically give bald-face support of Eugenics and racial superiority (it is important to note that much of the Nazi style eugenics "science" was imported from US scientists who were active in the teens and 20s).
Just like I am quick to point out and condemn such ignorant racism on their parts, defending them that they lived in a different time (though alongside many great thinkers who condemned such racism), it would be wrong of me to not also condemn their sexism. Sexism is one of the bigger things keeping gaming a single guy activity and not more gender neutral
territory.
Look at Anime. I mean, when I first started watching Anime in the mid 1980s, it was a single geek guy activity, all big robots and what not. But when girls Anime finally reached the US in the mid 1990s, look at what happened. I know of more female students who are avid about Anime and freely and openly admit it, than male students. It has shifted the entire niche market towards a female audience and frankly has broadened both the cultural impact of Anime and the availability and diversity of Anime imported to the US. This is good, RPGs should and have taken notice.
Now back to the main topic. Childish behavior is fine, in your own game, and within a general group understanding, although I, as a parent, second the opinion of the above poster, that such behavior in front of his son is a very, very, poor example to set. But childish gaming, amongst people who are out of high school, is mostly a thing of the past. White Wolf ended it in 1990. 17 years ago. Serious gaming is the bread and butter of the day. Not that I don't joke around in my games too. Trust me I had all my players in stitches when they fought the Froghemouth in the Champion's Belt (a monster I might add that is oh, so, Gygaxian). But serious, thoughtful, plot and story driven gaming, is what most players and the market of gamers, that I know, want.
Realize that the days of Gord and Howard have passed us by. you may revisit them, and please do, they were good days, at the time. But also realize that they are in the past. The present is good. And it also allows a strong feminist like my wife to play, and enjoy D&D. It also means that, as a older post showing the education of various posters indicated, that gaming is mentally challenging and can live up to the expectations of a highly educated and broad minded, gamer population. Thats cool, for both her, I, and the rest of gamer kind. IMOHO
I've delt with a Player with a similar game style. He was more about shocking other players than he was about playing the game. What I started doing was throwing our Munckin Traps that I knew he'd walk into. (A Munchkin Trap is what our group calls a trap or setup geared at punishing bad behavior, that everyone in the group can see except the person it is aimed at. It only works when the target ignores the advice of the rest of their team, and walks into it anyway.) I had a problem with him killing NPC for no reason other than he could. he'd start bar fights and immediatly go to swords and spells, he'd torture people just because. So, what I started doing was "Hiding" High level NPC's in every Tavern. (One being a 60th level TPK that he walked up to and slapped before being ground into hamburger.)
What the people who defend this type of behavior are forgetting is this: Yes D&D is a group effort, but if the DM isn't happy, there is no game! The Dm has all the work to do, this player just has to show up. If he's causing trouble in the game, and pissing off your good players, boot him. This isn't grade school, you don't have to 'be nice'. Boot him before his behavior costs you good players who aren't going to put up with his crap. Gods know I wouldn't!
And as far as txwad,Dude, grow up. It's not funny, and it's not cute (Unless you're playing with a bunch of 14yr olds.) Bathroom humor is the bottom end of the comedy foodchain. It is easy to use, because it requires very little thought. That type of humor went out of style with that Mysoginist Andrew 'Dice' Clay.
err...
letsee so the character did a bit described humiliation, roleplayed discrimination and went thru with a serious search for the culprit?
So how do you imagine realworld cops find out who has the bomb on airplane? Ask some people if they have it nicely... yeah right.
As for torture and similar, like who the f@&* cares.. intimidation is a skill ya know.. and this kind of behaviour gives a circumstantial bonus.
As for being offended over a RP situation where someone discriminates against virtual characters.. yeah, that is being thin skinned.
And no they aren't slaves, unless they are a bunch of whimps that can protest. But then most people today are wimps, as a great example in berlin: some turks outside a store kicked over every pale german and made them crawl on that some 50' part of the street. Not one of them protested, just submitted like pathetic wimps. Those that don't stand up for themselves ARE SLAVES. Now, then and always..
Ive even understood that many american young adults (21) have never been in a real fistfight as kids.. or even several, where i come from only the very rare havent had their faces busted up a dozen times by the times they hit 20... oh and returned the favour too. Sheltered and kept away from physical activities, one can understand why a bit directness can be scary.
But the only thing to be scared about is fear itself.
..come back when they he is going thru a babytax thing, for no other reason than perversion.. ie raping babies, then grilling them and finally eating the freshly grilled meat. Then i will listen..
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Ive even understood that many american young adults (21) have never been in a real fistfight as kids.. or even several, where i come from only the very rare havent had their faces busted up a dozen times by the times they hit 20... oh and returned the favour too. Sheltered and kept away from physical activities, one can understand why a bit directness can be scary.
You have to understand--here in the U.S. anymore, you never know who has a gun. That's why people don't fist fight anymore like in the old country.
You have to understand--here in the U.S. anymore, you never know who has a gun. That's why people don't fist fight anymore like in the old country.
I seemed to always be in a fight growing up all the way through high school. I recalled pounding some kids face into the pavement over a disagreement about a seat on the bus (ye olde cheese wagon) and one of his friends sucker punched me in the back of the head. These days, either that kid or his buddy might just as easily pull a handgun out of their book bag and put a couple holes in me (if I'm lucky).
Now this is just speaking for myself and an attitude shared by my friends, but we are much more willing to let an altercation go at a few insults and obscene gestures then step up on someone because you just don't know who is going to pull a gun and who isn't. It's just safer.
I think as true as some of the postings maybe about fistfights, definitions of slaves, ect. the point of this thread is being under utitlized.
I am a player in the STAP and I will admit that I too have taken part in urination as an role playing action. However my fellow players and DM all share my crude and at times childish behavior (yes I will admit that not all my humor is witty and cunning) and it was done at low points in the game where it would concievably happen. For example, when we shipwrecked on Farshore and fought the T-Rex, Meravanchi's (sp?) horse was bitten in two by the T-Rex, to show our distaste for Meravanchi (sp?) my character, a rogue, the fighter and the druid in our group decided that after Meravanchi (sp?) insisted we reincarnate his horse or face severe punishment and we refused, the three of us, let's say relieved ourselves, on one half of the horse while the druid's wolverine ate the other half. This gave everyone at the table a laugh, no one was offended, and we showed Meravanchi (sp?)what we truely think of him.
I think everything you do in a game is subject to what others around you find acceptable. If this guy won't be serious when he needs to be or no one at the table finds this guy funny then he should be booted. I know that my character's actions were crude and not in the best tastes but it was an action that everyone understood and appreciated it for what it was: a retaliation on Meravanchi. If the point of why he is doing these things is missed then he has no reason to be doing them.
Yah, this is what I was also talking about. Setting up and following group norms. Every gaming group has it's own norms and expectations of behavior. If these kind of displays are ok and participated in by your GM and other players, then that is accepted behavior in your game. But each gaming group has to figure this out for themselves. Obviously the main poster does not agree to the players behaviors as being within the groups norms, therefor he needs to stop, leave, or the GM needs to find a new venue to game in.
lol, nothing still compares to this one guy whose character got captured and anally raped by orcs and was left bleeding for 1d6 constitution a day...
psst..
"He who prefers a bit of safety at the price of personal liberties, deserves neither" -Benjamin Franklin
lol, nothing still compares to this one guy whose character got captured and anally raped by orcs and was left bleeding for 1d6 constitution a day...
psst..
"He who prefers a bit of safety at the price of personal liberties, deserves neither" -Benjamin Franklin
wow. that is pretty sick chubbs. even sicker than mr. icanturnthingsintomembersoftheoppositesex'sanatomyandthenurinateonthem's post.
congratulations. i think i just threw up in my mouth.
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Hey all, sorry to divert the topic a little away from the OP’s question again …
But. In response to txwas – in my objection to your post I did not say anything about my definition of “real”. I did not say you shouldn’t do whatever you want in your own game, as long as the other players and DM are comfortable with it.
I resent the implication that I run some sort of “candy ass game” or that my objection to your post makes me a prude, delicate or overly sensitive. In fact my games are pretty hardcore and horrific and often bloodthirsty. I make liberal use of the BOVD, Fiendish Codex, Heroes of Horror etc, use settings and adventures like Scuttlecove, the Styes etc. NPCs and sometimes the PCs in my game frequently do horrible and anti-social things, not limited to desecrating alters and humiliating enemies. I’m well aware of such precedents in fantasy literature and history – and I don’t find any of the examples you use from Conan, Gygax, or the character who collects monsters body parts to be particularly (or even at all) offensive. But I do draw the line at certain things in my game. Excessive crudeness or juvenile behaviour, whilst they may have precedence, have no part in my game (and no, that’s not me as DM thinking what I want MUST be the way it is, this is also based on what my players want from a game). Behaviour by players (or their characters) which is extremely degrading to women has no part in my game.
I took offense at two things in your post: firstly, the implication that the DM had launched an umprovoked attack on your character which justified any subsequent behaviour on your (or your characters) part – which you later clarified as not being the case – sorry, my bad, that’s how I read it.
Secondly, your description of a misogynistic action on your (or your characters) part. (As an aside I suggest you look up the word, because your use of it in relation to revenge on Vanthus demonstrates that you may not know what people are so upset about). It wasn’t about urinating on an alter. It was about urinating over women’s genitalia. Yep, I know some people get off on that sort of thing, but I would say a large majority of people find it offensive, insulting, degrading, distasteful, or at the very least something not to be talked about in this sort of context. Like I said, if it works in your game, fine (though I still think its degrading and uncalled for). But there was absolutely no need to describe it in this sort of forum. If you wanted to get your point across, telling us that your character urinated on the alter would have sufficed, without letting us know whatever it was about you that prompted that act. Oh, and chances are that behaviour that isn’t suitable for a paladin probably isn’t suitable for most dwarven clerics either.
On to the original poster’s question. What this player is doing is de-railing what you (And presumably most of the other players) want to get out of the game, so no, I don’t think you’re being too thin skinned. I would suggest the first thing is to talk to the problem player and the rest of the group about the issues you have, and see what they all want to get from the game.
So to adjust my list of who not to game with...EVER!
1.Txwad
2.Whoever ikki gamed with that allowed orcs to anal-rape a character...to say tortured brutally would have sufficed.
3.Anyone who bring in a character sheet that says "Rouge" as the class.FH
i really hope that that "rouge", nice spelling by the way, comment was meant for me as I assume you meant rogue in which case if you are referring to my character's partaking a previously mentioned incident that was clearly outlined as to why it happened.
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Oh..., the rich rich irony of it all. These are the posts I live for.
The fakester fonger is fonged!!!
Jinkies!!!
(edit) the rouge/rogue thing is a running gag; fakey busts on people for spelling it wrong all the time and then he himself can't spell plesiosaur so I give him crap for that etc...etc...
;)
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i really hope that that "rouge", nice spelling by the way, comment was meant for me as I assume you meant rogue in which case if you are referring to my character's partaking a previously mentioned incident that was clearly outlined as to why it happened.So to adjust my list of who not to game with...EVER!
1.Txwad
2.Whoever ikki gamed with that allowed orcs to anal-rape a character...to say tortured brutally would have sufficed.
3.Anyone who bring in a character sheet that says "Rouge" as the class.FH
Dude, I have been smackin' people around on this board over the misspelling of "Rogue" for over 1600 posts. I put that on my list of people I do not want to game with....people who can't spell a core-class right. It has nothing to do with Dexterous little tricksters, and everything to do with people who think that make-up and a hue of red make a character class.
It has nothing to do with your actions with that character. You will notice that these boards are almost purged of the misspelling of Rogue besides the rather snarky ribbing that people give me for championing this cause. That is my doing with a dash of humor.FH
Wow . . . . so I get busy with other things for a few days and forget to check the paizo message boards. didn't think my post would last so long.
Thus far . . . after speaking with my friend (the one who hosts our gaming sessions), the problem player offered to run a Star Wars game after I left. The host stated that the problem player indicated I would be welcome in the game. I think that now is a good time to take a break from gaming.
Wow . . . . so I get busy with other things for a few days and forget to check the paizo message boards. didn't think my post would last so long.
Thus far . . . after speaking with my friend (the one who hosts our gaming sessions), the problem player offered to run a Star Wars game after I left. The host stated that the problem player indicated I would be welcome in the game. I think that now is a good time to take a break from gaming.
That really sucks, man. Apparently you're the odd man out. Screw those guys. Can't you get another group together?
Wow . . . . so I get busy with other things for a few days and forget to check the paizo message boards. didn't think my post would last so long.
Thus far . . . after speaking with my friend (the one who hosts our gaming sessions), the problem player offered to run a Star Wars game after I left. The host stated that the problem player indicated I would be welcome in the game. I think that now is a good time to take a break from gaming.
Sorry to hear that it went down like that. I suggest you try and see if you can join another group. It sucks to be the guy with a different gaming style but maybe, hopefully, its for the best in the long run and you can hook up with a group less interested in toliet humour in their D&D and more into heroic fantasy.
You will notice that these boards are almost purged of the misspelling of Rogue besides the rather snarky ribbing that people give me for championing this cause. That is my doing with a dash of humor.
Just like Zorro, except, you know, persnickety about spelling on the internet.
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i really hope that that "rouge", nice spelling by the way, comment was meant for me as I assume you meant rogue in which case if you are referring to my character's partaking a previously mentioned incident that was clearly outlined as to why it happened.So to adjust my list of who not to game with...EVER!
1.Txwad
2.Whoever ikki gamed with that allowed orcs to anal-rape a character...to say tortured brutally would have sufficed.
3.Anyone who bring in a character sheet that says "Rouge" as the class.FH
Dude, I have been smackin' people around on this board over the misspelling of "Rogue" for over 1600 posts. I put that on my list of people I do not want to game with....people who can't spell a core-class right. It has nothing to do with Dexterous little tricksters, and everything to do with people who think that make-up and a hue of red make a character class.
It has nothing to do with your actions with that character. You will notice that these boards are almost purged of the misspelling of Rogue besides the rather snarky ribbing that people give me for championing this cause. That is my doing with a dash of humor.FH
Dude, I saw this on a shirt on cafe press and thought of you:
Rouges are red
Violets are blue
Spell my class wrong
and I'll backstab you.
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Dude, I saw this on a shirt on cafe press and thought of you:
Rouges are red
Violets are blue
Spell my class wrong
and I'll backstab you.
I keep thinking about buying it but nobody I know would really get it except for my gaming group.
I may just get it so the D&D Informed will know they can approach and engage in a conversation about gaming.FH
I stopped a campaign I was running once because one of the players was just too much of a problem. We played on Sundays at my house and from early in the morning until game time I would get so stressed about the game that my supportive and pro-gamer friendly wife said, "If you aren't having any fun with D&D why play? Find a new group."
I used the WOTC boards and did find a new group and we having been playing ever since without the hassle.
Maybe you don't need a break but the chance to game with a new group?