I've noticed in both Sea Wyvern's Wake and Here There Be Monsters, that the Scaling the Adventure sidebars are missing. Is this on purpose? If not, can some general advice be given?
Creative Director
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I've noticed in both Sea Wyvern's Wake and Here There Be Monsters, that the Scaling the Adventure sidebars are missing. Is this on purpose? If not, can some general advice be given?
It's an accident, pretty much. By the time we realized they were missing, we would have had to cut half a column of adventure. And since by that point we'd already cut deep to make the adventure fit in the first place... I didn't think it was worth it.
Frankly, I'd like to not print Scaling the Adventure sidebars at all for the Adventure Path installments at all. They were first introduced when Dungeon went 3rd edition because at the time there weren't many adventures to pick from. There's hundreds now, so a single adventure has less of a reason with each new issue of the magazine to have to work for different levels. After a certain amount of time, all those sidebars start sounding the same anyway.
They also make less sense with an Adventure Path where the players are likely to be following on from the last adventure and so should be the right level. If they aren't the right level then it's better to get them back on track with a side quest, rather than scaling down the adventure and then having to do the same again with the next, and the next.
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Creative Director
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Also, in many cases... certain adventures just don't work the same once you gain access to certain spells. Speak with dead throws a monkey wrench at murder mysteries. Trap-filled dungeons get less scary once find the path is around. Long journeys are meaningless once you have teleport. Those types of changes require complete adventure rewriting, something that a sidebar can't cover.
On your last point, one issue I've noticed is that some Adventure Paths seem to almost assume access to certain spells or abilities. Like an encounter with a large number of low CR enemies at the start of a 5th level adventure almost requires fireball, without the encounter being significantly harder.
Most Adventure Paths we've played are meat-grinders if you don't "raise your game" anyway. I think you need to be a bit careful about assuming the party has access to any one particular ability, what with all the various character options available nowadays.
Encounter at Black Wall Keep, The pirate blockade in this one, etc. I've rarely been in a group that has got fireball at 5th level. Either because the blaster caster is a Warmage or other spontaneous caster or because the wizard has multiclassed. Same with Clerics and Remove Disease. Or Elves to find secret doors.
Well, my issue is not with characters being inappropriate level, it's that I have six PC's in my party. I suppose in this situation I should just add more creatures to an encounter, or advance/add levels to them.
Well, my issue is not with characters being inappropriate level, it's that I have six PC's in my party. I suppose in this situation I should just add more creatures to an encounter, or advance/add levels to them.
From the way your adventure has been progressing, it sounds like you don't need much advice to challenge your players! Or are they just whining? ;)
Well, my issue is not with characters being inappropriate level, it's that I have six PC's in my party. I suppose in this situation I should just add more creatures to an encounter, or advance/add levels to them.From the way your adventure has been progressing, it sounds like you don't need much advice to challenge your players! Or are they just whining? ;)
Whining mostly :o) "The ooze monster's too big! The plant monsters are gonna eat us!" etc, etc.
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Creative Director
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For larger groups, it's best to add more rather than advance. A group of four 6th level PCs can certainly dish out more than four, but individually they're all the same strength. Buffing up a monster rather than adding more mooks significantly increases the likelihood that the tougher-than-normal creature will take out one of the PCs simply because his damage or save DCs are way too high.
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Right, the "scaling adventures" sidebars almost always deal with the LEVEL of the PC's, not the quantity. That's because frankly it's pretty easy to handle more PC's...just have more of the bad guys.
For example, my group for STAP is actually 8. What that means is that while I don't necessarily double the number of creatures they face in most given encounters, I do roughly try to double the difficulty. For example, in the Parrot Island thing, I had 15 zombies instead of twelve, but 6 of them fought alongside the huecuva, making that a pretty nasty encounter, and then a group of 6 in the room with the loot, and another group of 3 for whenever I felt like it was getting stale or the PC's were getting careless. Throwing them 3 at a time like the module suggests would have been a cakewalk for the party; as it was, they were lucky to have a cleric who both got very lucky with the turn check, and who also specializes in grapples, and was able to pin the huecuva while the swashbuckler slashed with a silver dagger. The rest of the party chashed down and polished off the cowering zombies.
The Blue Nixie had 2 rhagodessae in the hold instead of one, and let me tell ya, that scared the bejeezus out of the party. :) I only marginally increased the number of thieves in the Lotus Dragon Guildhall (to about 30 instead of 22 or whatever it was), but I grouped them such that they attacked in greater numbers at a time, and in places where they could come from multiple angles instead of at a single simple chokepoint. I also made them tougher by giving them cover and, unless the PC's made a tough listen check at the door, a surprise round with crossbow bolts (and sneak attack damage). The encounter with Rowyn and Gut Tugger also involved a half dozen theives as well, although they were largely dealt with by means of a sleep spell (and some sly coup de grace rolls by the mage while the rest of the party was distracted dealing with Rowyn, not a nice thing to do!).
I've asked, and so far we feel I've more or less achieved a good balance with it, as no one has died quite, but the players definitely feel challenged and threatened when they are in the bigger encounters. See my entry on the "ST Near Death Experiences" thread; I've had players go negative numerous times, including a -9, only to have the Dragon Shaman stabilize them immediately with his aura of healing. That's more exactly exactly as I'd like to have it. Tough enough to hurt the party, and make them really work for success, but not so tough that players die consistently.
Hope that helps.
Frankly, I'd like to not print Scaling the Adventure sidebars at all for the Adventure Path installments at all. After a certain amount of time, all those sidebars start sounding the same anyway.
Amen, brother. Ax 'em! 3 more columns per issue is another 12 pages a year... almost like a bonus adventure!