Yes, it is all true. D&D was a horrible movie almost as bad as Ultraviolet. I'm having a flashback right now....
D&D 4. It will probably happen in your lifetime, but WotC has made no plans as of yet that I, or anyone one else that I know, knows about. So for right now it is as much a rumor as that one about yakfolk or abiels appearing as antagonists in Dungeon anytime soon.
GGG
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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OMG! That horse isn't dead!
Quick! Beat it some more!!! We'll teach that horse.
Sorry to be short, but this question always leads to a flame war. Search 4e or 4th edition or go to www.enworld.org and click on their link regarding information about 4e. Nobody knows anything, there's nothing to talk about. There's b@!!$ing, moaning, speculation, conjecture, and b%@&*@@$, and naught else.
Yakfolk, eh?
Hmmmmm....
And Abiels. Oh and maybe a flying dire rhino.
;)
GGG
WOTC is a publishing company. They make money by writing books and then selling them.
They have two main markets and a minor market:
Main market 1: Returning customers who want new copies of new books. As long as they keep writing consistently interesting 3.5 books, gamers will keep buying them. This group is much smaller than...
Main market 2: New customers who have either never played D&D before, or played with friends and never bought any books before. These players will buy at least $100 worth of core rule books and accessories.
Minor market 1: Returning customers who need to buy new copies of books they already have, to replace the old Players Handbook that's been used so much it's dead.
Publish or perish. They're running out of ideas for 3.5. They will run out of ideas for 3.5. They will publish 4.0. The trick is, if they announce they're going to publish 4.0, Main Market 1 and 2 dry up and blow away, so they wait until they're a fair ways into development and then they announce that they're going to be going to 4.0, and HERE'S ALL THE COOL STUFF WE'RE GOING TO BE PUTTING IN IT!!! They get everybody so excited about the upcoming rules that they don't think, "whoa, I've got, like, $300 in books that are going to be useless in about a year..."
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They get everybody so excited about the upcoming rules that they don't think, "whoa, I've got, like, $300 in books that are going to be useless in about a year..."$300? More like $2000 in my case......
Same for me. Besides my players already almost revolted when I made them buy the PHB 3.5 ... ;-)
But when it comes to the original question:
If you have a closer look on many message boards, there are quite many players who didn't switch to 3rd edition, either. Nobody forces you to make the change. And unfortunately nobody can give you a serious guess about what 4th edition will be like (better or worse from your p.o.v.).
Greetings,
Günther
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But when it comes to the original question:
If you have a closer look on many message boards, there are quite many players who didn't switch to 3rd edition, either. Nobody forces you to make the change. And unfortunately nobody can give you a serious guess about what 4th edition will be like (better or worse from your p.o.v.).Greetings,
Günther
Well, if I can throw my 2 coppers in the hat, I am in no way a sage on the subject, but if I had to guess, I would lay money on the new edition going to a more class-less system.
The new Mutants and Masterminds D20 game won like 8 ENnies!! The system is completely class-less; all feats, skills, ability scores, and class-like special abilities are bought on a point buy system.
I guess that we'll see some of that transition to D&D. When you think about the way a lot of players (especially newer/younger ones) like their immediate gratification and can-do-everything mentality. These are the players who were introduced to D&D when 3rd edition came out - they didnt learn to play on the older more restrictive systems and they have the Sega/Playstation immediate need for action and power.
Thus their characters often reflect this M.O. and have many classes, abilities, etc that appeal to this.
Going class-less would appease to the newer/younger players and attract a bunch of new ones (at least theoretically). So as to not alienate the older/veteran players the system should then provide some sort of synergistic point-buy reduction for choosing a base-class model so to emphasize on keeping D&D original arch-type character concepts true-to-form if you will.
For instance, a player decides to play a paladin-like character. For his points he can buy any number of paladin like abilities for a discount, but if he wants sneak attack and to cast arcane spells and have fast movement, then those abilities cost more to him.
Why do I think this is a possible direction for 4th ed? Because with 25+ years of D&D experience speaking, and seen a lot of change over the years, if this was my company - this is the direction I would take. There seems to be a number of persons who is looking for games like that. And finally, if I can come up with this concept I'm sure many others have - especially those in positions whose job function is to playtest, market, and study the demographics for the upcoming material.
Note however: my theory does not indicate my opinion as to whether or not this would be a "good" change or not; merely a surmised prediction.
Robert
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I just wish my Will save was one of my good ones - then I could resist engaging in debates on pointless speculation.
I would bet a sizable sum of money that 4e will not be classless. The classes and their attendent immediate gratification have been frequently cited as one of the strengths of D&D. It makes the game easy to learn and easy to play. Classless games exist in a smaller niche, with White Wolf being probably the dominant publisher. I really can't see WotC abandoning a lucrative model to go after someone else's less-lucrative model. On top of that, a classless edition would be seriously incompatable with prior editions. As has been mentioned ad naseum, 4e has a lot of pressure to be backward compatable because, to the extent it is not, someone will just publish a new off-brand D&D using the SRD and it will be viewed as the rightful successor to D&D.
Now, all that being said, I would not be surprised to see a more modular D&D, with more classes built like the monk, where each time you level you have a range of options rather than a fixed progression.
But D&D will not be classless any more than it will it be dwarfless, swordless, magicless, or diceless.
I'm new to the d20 system in general and it seems as though even an idiot like me can figure out 3.5, why would they need to make a 4th edition? won't that just mean that all the source material i've spent my hard earned hourly pittance (in a cubicle, mind you!!!) for no good reason?
Being new to 3.5e, you don't have the experience with it to see what problems it still has, and there are several.
However, I expect that any changes in 4e will be more in the vein of tuning up the system than revamping it (certainly nothing like the 2e to 3e change). It may well be that the supplements don't become totally obsolete.
Cheers!
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I just wish my Will save was one of my good ones - then I could resist engaging in debates on pointless speculation.
At least we agree that it IS indeed pointless speculation.
Now, all that being said, I would not be surprised to see a more modular D&D, with more classes built like the monk, where each time you level you have a range of options rather than a fixed progression.
I agree with this notion. Thats sort of what I was getting at by having "synergy" point-buy reduction to keep character class-concepts as a base-model for a character. BUT - your ideas though still just pointless speculation, does have a significant amount of merit.
Robert
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I agree with this notion. Thats sort of what I was getting at by having "synergy" point-buy reduction to keep character class-concepts as a base-model for a character. BUT - your ideas though still just pointless speculation, does have a significant amount of merit.Robert
So, we're basically talking about the same speculative elephant, I'm just describing it from the side and you're describing it from the front.
WotC is running out of books to publish and I'm running out of books to buy! Bring it on! Take my money, please!
I disagree with the running out of books to publish point.
I have enough ideas for a "Complete Mystic Warrior" and "Complete Spell Wielder" and an "Objects d'Art" (magic items) book myself.Along with a whole new campaign setting - with feats, races, monsters, history, etc.
And I am just one guy - who dabbles.
Unfortunately WOTC doesn't accept queries as Dragon does.
The system 3.5 can be expanded pretty much endlessly.
I think the real question is can another setting be launched that can gain as much momentum as FR. - An orchestrated simultaneous launch with: a series of novels, a computer game, and a movie (TV show) in the setting, would probably be the minimum to launch a setting with the kind of momentum required to really reinvigorate the game - and get a lot of new people into the game and elevate it popularity to the next level.
That kind of launch would also attract the kind of talent to take the content to the next level as well - which would change the game in unpredictable (but most likely positive ways).
D&D as therapy, D&D as a team building tool for business, D&D as a collaborative story telling technique for a new style of novel, D&D as an educational tool, etc.
I think 3.5 has the goods to do all that - with the right execution. Intersting decisions to be made - target age and maturity level - or split the game into maturity levels - the first evidence of this is already there with BoVD.
Sorry rambling ends now.
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I think the real question is can another setting be launched that can gain as much momentum as FR. - An orchestrated simultaneous launch with: a series of novels, a computer game, and a movie (TV show) in the setting, would probably be the minimum to launch a setting with the kind of momentum required to really reinvigorate the game - and get a lot of new people into the game and elevate it popularity to the next level.
That brings me to another unsaid point that I had concocted in my mind - I believe that with the 4th edition, they may release Planescape as a re-released for D20 rules world and may support that (finally) as significantly as they have done with other recent releases.
This is based also on my real hopes and wishes. I miss Planescape and it was my favorite setting (along with Ravenloft) in 2nd edition, and it is a shame that they have not tried to really do anything with it since 3rd came out. There's so much potential diversity with that setting.
Robert
I would just like to chip in and say that
a) I would personally adore an "Objects d'Art" sourcebook; I am constantly disenchanted (ha!) with the rather plain-vanilla DMG magical items.
b)I am also a huge Ravenloft AND Planescape fan. I followed Ravenloft to the Arthus publications and am hoping that it gets the old WotC spit-and-shine. (The new Castle Ravenloft is dynamite, btw) Every time I dig out my 2e Planescape box, I fall in love with it again. I'd grumble and complain about a 4th edition a lot, but if there's Ravenloft, Planescape, or even Dark Sun material that would be feautred in the limelight, I'd consider it worth it.
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I don't think you will see a rehash of all the older campaign settings with a 4ed. In fact, many think the death knell for 2ed. was there were too many settings. Each player who liked a given setting didn't buy all the stuff that wasn't from their setting, so any publication for say Planescape or Kara-Tur or whatever didn't sell anywhere near what would be needed to stay profitable. In many ways this almost resulted in the complete death of D&D as a game until WotC road in and resurrected it with a 3rd edition rules set. Any new edition will try to keep the "campaign" portion of things broad so as to appeal to the largest audience possible. For those who feal nostalgic about specific campaign settings this will be unfortunate, but for the game as a whole a good (that is to say profitable) thing.
I'm new to the d20 system in general and it seems as though even an idiot like me can figure out 3.5, why would they need to make a 4th edition? won't that just mean that all the source material i've spent my hard earned hourly pittance (in a cubicle, mind you!!!) for no good reason?Being new to 3.5e, you don't have the experience with it to see what problems it still has, and there are several.
However, I expect that any changes in 4e will be more in the vein of tuning up the system than revamping it (certainly nothing like the 2e to 3e change). It may well be that the supplements don't become totally obsolete.
Cheers!
That is the best route for WotC to take and I would actually not mind such a change. Switching from 3.0 to 3.5 didn't bother me much, heck, it made the Ranger class totally awesome so what's there to complain about? :D
hehe there will be another edition for the same reason there has been all the current editions; to make money; its all about capitalism and the mighty dallor. I mean really, can you say that the game is any better than first ed? some say yes some say no, but really a good game depends on good players and a good gm; all this source material stuff may be nice or junk but really it is only to help set up the game and everybody has ideas on how to do that better so there will always be more editions. Play what you want, have fun, use what rules you want and change what you want; that is the fun of an open ended game. Its all a matter of taste; I know lots of people still playing first ed, but to have cool web sites like this and additional source material they have to sell something.
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hehe there will be another edition for the same reason there has been all the current editions; to make money; its all about capitalism and the mighty dallor.
Yep. Fourth edition will be released when the sales data say that releasing a new edition will be more profitable than continuing the current edition.
I wouldn't be surpised if they weren't developping 4e now, with no plans to release it at any given date. developping such a complex rulesset is work of years if it is to be an improvement over the previous edition. I'd expect something to come out eventually, but not soon, where the rules are inimicible to previous editions.
A few predictions of mine: I'd expect that races, classes and 3-18 scores will stay. They are iconic aspects of the game, and are sacred cows at this point. They may tend towards a more blended class system, but you'll still be able to say "I'm a mage".
I'd put money on the warlock class being back for 4e. The class is getting repeated support and fan interest. It achieves mechanically the feel that the sorcerer was supposed to have.
Scout might make a reappearance in 4e, as it is a short and elegant take on roguesque classes with a visible roll in a fantasy society. However, it may overlap overly much with rogue and ranger.
If any class is to get the axe, it'll be sorcerer. The class is the idiot child of 3.xe, and will likely be replaced by a more warlock class, or completely overhauled.
I suspect that much will be done to change melee combat and make it more interesting. Iron heroes (by malhavoc press) and tome of battle both show possible routes they may take.
There will be some aspect of character customization along the path of skills/feats in 3.x. I suspect that, like the previous system, there will be an internally consistent component like skills in 3.xe, and a part that is infinitely expandable like feats are, so that they have crunch aspects aside from spells and magic items to print in splatbooks.
The prestige class may go the way of the dodo. there's a large component of fans who are unhappy with the glut of PrCs, and dungeon master's guide II went out of it's way to discourage their use.
What else will remain to be seen is the "assumed setting". In 3.0, the assumed setting was greyhawk, however everyone was assumed to be completely unschooled in its ruleset.
In 3.5 there was an even more curmudgeonly "assumed setting" which was *not* greyhawk, but had a portion of its gods. I suspect that this may not be the case in 4e, as the result of a vanilla blank setting is many adventures taking place "in a village somewhere". Whether the setting is greyhawk, forgotten realms, or perhaps some brand new setting remains to be seen.
I'd also wager that the great wheel cosmology sticks around another edition. Large elements of the iconic D&D monsters are tied to the great wheel cosmology, and the wheel gives good context for adventure modules.
I'd wager that there'll be more adventures in the first few releases of 4e, as I suspect wizards is discovering there's only so many splatbooks you can release before people feel they've purchased enough.
Also, I'd put money that psionics will be back, and it will be way way WAY different from anything we've seen before.
As it has been stated, its all about the money. 4E will come out when they think that all the cash that can be pulled from 3.5 has filled the coffers.
Im sure that they are thinking of 4E or maybe even playtesting it during one of those weekly games they all talk about.
I predict that 4E will come out before the end of the decade.
Oh Boy! I want to be a prophet too.
I predict that the grappling rules will be simpler!
OK with that out of the way.
I submit that they ought to come up with a business model that does not have us all playing a different game. That's the problem with a zillion splat books all of which are self contained and more or less optional. At the end of the day everyone ends up with different books and is ultimatly playing a different game.
Makes me long for the fine days of 1st ed. when every group had at least one copy of every major book. That said they only released maybe two books a year in those days and things started to break down when they started releasing crap like the Wilderness Survival Guide.
Ooh! Ooh! Let me beat the dead horse, too!
Well, 4th Ed. will come - sometime.
And it will have changes to 3.5 - some.
Everything else is speculation, crystal ball reading, spökenkiekerei or however you want to put it. And listing what changes might be made is wishful thinking...
Sorry for the sarcasm, but I´m with Sebastian here - its a futile exercise.
Stefan
Well, if I could throw in more predictions, I would add that WotC has shown an interest to make their system compatible to more time ages and probably there will be even better compatibility between them.
In particular, they could follow a format similar to GURPS RPG in term of manuals, with a manual for each technological era, plus manuals with superpowers, magic, psionics, fantasy, oriental fantasy, etc...just like it's now...but even better streamlined and without need of modern-fantasy conversion and compaign a-specific but with campaign suggestions (like d20 future).
They could then go with splat books expanding on equipment, skills, feats, etc to for each era or type of game...a "core" campaign for some specific eras (say FR or whatever for fantasy, Dark Matter* for modern, and who knows...star wars for future, hehe).
From a rule point of view they will hopefully streamline rules (combat especially, BAB always seemed such a bad idea) better rules for chocking (how is it done anyway?) and create more elastic classes (where you are more free to choose what kind of abilities you gain, but also within predetermined parameters).
Your (Fantasy) classes will definitely be:
Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Priest. I hope for a complete rework of the Paladin and the Ranger (sorry but I never liked them the way they are). Hopefully bards will be...not included...
Other Loved Classes: Ninja, Samurai, Monk (in a system less dependant on magic items he should be more balanced), Warlock, Psionic. A druid could be reworked a little...it's a cool concept but in my games it never delivers in or out of combat.
Hopefully the whole Fantasy system will be much less dependant on magical items (similarly to Iron Heroes, as someone suggested here) and magic will hopefully have more roleplaying consequences and be more strict...for both mages AND priests.
I really want Priests to not have access to all spells but to have to obtain access to them by performing some action in accordance with the deity's potfolio and depending with the spell level.
Also I hope they include better rules for multi-classing (a wizard would never become a rogue they are more than classes, they are mind frames and are hardly changed..so they should be an exception...but possible and with limitations. And there should be less reasons to do it (with the inclusion of all sorts of mixed classes or rules to create them) and definitely rules for EPIC CAMPAIGNS for every Era (I am still waiting for the Star Wars Epic, grrr).
About when it will be out...well, judging from the decrease in output manuals....I should say they will create a few new stuff, adventures..possibly a magic items manual.. late 2009-early 2010 (possibly 2010, the new era of RPGs with a round year).
I suggest we start speculating on the 5th edition.
There will be no races, no classes and you'll only need skills to do what you want to. Spells will be resolved through skill checks and they will bring out thousand of splat books with more skills (e.g. "Hide under a carpet (DEX)", "Move Silently on broken glass (DEX)" or "Appraise huge objects (INT)".
Weapons will be reduced to two options: Composite longbow of strength (+2) and Katana. The rest is anyway useless and takes away word-count (you only have 64 pages after all and since the books are priced 1 US$ per page, better be careful).
Artwork will be commissioned to Korean and Japanese Manga authors, while Miniatures will be hand-painted in Libya (Chinese labor will be too expensive by then).
"Return to the Ruins of Castle Ravenloft" will not include a poster-map!! But, hey, you got Strahd updated to edition 5.5, so what is the big deal?
Mystra will have absorbed the Shadow Weave.
The Lord of Blades will rule Breland.
A forgotten demi-god, recently freed from Castle Zagyg, will try to revive Kyuss.
Elminster will die of old age (Mystra having sent home all of her Chosen after having absorbed said-Shadow Weave).
Karsus, having revived the Mark of Death, will return to life so as to get the Dragonmark and will then be changed to a mutant ninja by the Daelkyr.
Sasserine, having rised to regional prominence, will launch an attack on the Scarlet Brotherhood and conquer their whole plateau!
And Ed Greenwood, Keith Baker, Erik Mona and James Jacobs will be playing first edition together in their backyard. Buying books on their retirement money, earned so hardly while surviving so many editions...
Bocklin
PS: okay, I could have simply joined Günther and Sebastian to say that all speculations are b.lls..t and useless, but I felt like having fun. ;-)
I know I'll be SO looking forward to that ninth rank in "Cast Magic Missile".
But don't even bother with putting more than ten ranks in "Fireball"...
I submit that they ought to come up with a business model that does not have us all playing a different game. That's the problem with a zillion splat books all of which are self contained and more or less optional. At the end of the day everyone ends up with different books and is ultimatly playing a different game.
I'm not quite sure that I see things the same way you do. I get that there are a lot of extra books that you may not want to use, and that is cool. But the mechanics in each one are "snap on." They pretty much work the same way, if you want to use them or not.
If your DM, for example, doesn't allow any feats from the Complete series, and you take the character you have been using in his campaign to someone elses, and you later level up and want to take a feat from said source, its not that hard to do so. And your character likely works fine up if you don't even with the "extras" in the new campaign.
In 1st edition, when Uneathed Arcana was released, the new rules often were new. Look at how cavaliers worked, and how they modified how paladins worked. And the special rules for ability advancement for them. Or the abilities of thief-acrobats.
In 2nd edition, look at the optional rules of the Player's Option books, and the different way that the various kits affected different classes. There wasn't a coherent way that these things really worked, and if you made up a Player's Option character, a DM not using those rules likely wouldn't even know what the hell half the things on you character sheet were.
While there may be a lot of stuff in 3.5 that may or may not work for individual DMs and players, in all honesty, its a lot more integrated in regards to how those new rules work and affect play, at least from where I sit.
Oh, and I would also like to vote that we have NO IDEA when or where 4th edition will strike or what will be in it, so lets all relax and play some D&D and have fun.
Oh, and I would also like to vote that we have NO IDEA when or where 4th edition will strike or what will be in it, so lets all relax and play some D&D and have fun.
Yes, we have NO IDEA (except me of course, I am an age old wizard), but that doesn't mean we can't have fun making predictions :)
Anyway...I don't think all suggestions and discussions about the 4th edition are bad, WotC could take some of the suggestions and even create a 3.75 version first ;)
Actually, if you think about it, we already are at 3.75...the monsters format has changed, the PrC format has changed, the NPCs format has changed, new subsystem have been introduced...the thing is...by 2010 a 4th Edition will probably introduced due to marketing purposes...marketing rules, after all, indicate to change things every once in a while...
But in the meantime...enjoy what you've got..and when 4th edition comes if you don't want to buy it, well...don't! At least you will have plenty of material to go on for ages...
I wouldn't be surpised if they weren't developping 4e now, with no plans to release it at any given date. developping such a complex rulesset is work of years if it is to be an improvement over the previous edition.
I'd be shocked if they weren't already doing preliminary work on 4e, given the timeline involved. At the very least, they've probably got a few people who do little more than troll the message boards trying to get a feel for what people are whining about.
I'm looking forward to fourth edition. You'll see why when it's released.
Haha, I love keeping you guys guessing. It's a little mean though, so I'll come clean:
My expectation to see a fourth edition and my optimism for its quality aren't based on any special knowledge from Wizards - I imagine that only a select WotC employees would be privy to that sort of information, and I only wish I was so lucky as to have a WotC contract!
Rather, I'm simply stating two obvious facts. One, they've got to eventually release a fourth edtion - it might be tomorrow, it might be 2008, it might be 2028, but the money says it'll happen one day. The second obvious fact is that the writers of this ethereal fourth edition will know the current edition even better than its own writers, and will have both the benefit of hindsight and the freedom to make sweeping changes to better the game.
Thus I can say without any special insider knowledge we have a lot to look forward to.
Yes, it is all true. D&D was a horrible movie almost as bad as Ultraviolet. I'm having a flashback right now....
One of my players is an actress and as she was in Hong Kong when they were filming Ultraviolet she got a part as an extra. So we had to watch it. Man was she embarrassed about the quality. It was the first movie she was in and we sat through that b@@*!%@s only to find out that she was in the shopping mall scene and was wearing a face mask!
Sorry for the interruption. You may now return to your scheduled discussion...
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Haha, I love keeping you guys guessing. It's a little mean though, so I'll come clean:
My expectation to see a fourth edition and my optimism for its quality aren't based on any special knowledge from Wizards - I imagine that only a select WotC employees would be privy to that sort of information, and I only wish I was so lucky as to have a WotC contract!
You've got enough credentials that I wouldn't be surprised if you were tapped as a playtester, which is why I asked.
Granted, you've also got enough credentials where I would be surprised that you would post something confirming the existence of 4e in such an off-handed matter on these forums, but hey, you never know.
Thus I can say without any special insider knowledge we have a lot to look forward to.
Agreed.
Dibs as dungeon master. I can't wait to convert Tomb of Horrors - it'll give the "save vs death" rules a thorough test!
The speculation is fun. A few thoughts:
1. Yes, the economics of a product are a consideration.
2. The impetus for creating any of the new editions was to organize revamped rules and errata. Once there's enough to demand (by necessity, really) a whole new PH and DMG.
3. Classes stay, but as previous posters have mentioned, with much more customization. Base class + various options at each level, as with what are termed 'substitution' levels now. ipods, myspace, blogs, on-demand TV...this is the 'customize' era. D&D will reflect that. Who needs a prestige class when you can build a character with those qualities/skills/feats PLUS any others you choose. Go ahead and build your mounted, charging, spell-casting paladin (as opposed to a formal paladin/sorcerer/cavalier).
4. The tech tie-in at its launch. 4e will be very comprehensive in terms of its technology, as Kyr posted:
'An orchestrated simultaneous launch with: a series of novels, a computer game, and a movie (TV show) in the setting, would probably be the minimum to launch a setting with the kind of momentum required to really reinvigorate the game - and get a lot of new people into the game and elevate it popularity to the next level.'
Why dismiss anything? The dry-erase battlemat becomes a table-top interactive 'smartboard', complete with touch-screen menus of tables for quick-reference, downloadable, customizable maps and minis and area of effect templates. Pop in a card and bingo- dungeon map with multiple levels and secret doors at the touch of a pen (stylus). Table-top touch-screen technology. Those big, heavy rulebooks with hundreds of bookmarks? Bye-bye. Touch-screen PHB.
Sound far-fetched? I'm a HS teacher, and my classroom an 'interactive whiteboard' instead of a chalkboard. Many of you have probably seen them. I put up a PowerPoint presentation and use programmable buttons to open other programs, saved websites, etc. and I'm thinking, 'boy, this has some D&D applications!'
5. No computer die-roller, though. Gotta use real dice. Forever.
If it ain't broke...
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Hell, none of the editions were broke, but there is always room for improvement--especially with the older editions. If i were a betting man--and i'm not, i would bet that the 4th edition will be out sometime in 2008. I, of course, will be buying the big 3 books for that edition. Heck, i may even pre-order them. One thing about life one can always count on--is change.
Playtesting as a DM? Not me. I'll let you folks with more time than me do that. What i will do is anxiously await your valuable reviews on said edition.
Personally, whether a new edition comes out in a year or never, rest assured, i will never stop playing D&D. I believe i am speaking for most on these boards when saying that.
Game on!
Thoth-Amon
The timing is quite good for a Dungeons & Dragons TV series. Stargate SG-1 has just ended with a very fantasy-ish arc, and depending on who you listen to Star Trek would be smart to take a few years break so that the fans will forget how mediocre Enterprise was and end up longing for a new one. Lord of the Rings is recent enough that the concept is fondly remembered, but not so recent that its epicness would overshadow a smaller-budget TV series.
Eberron would make for a fantastic series - it's urban enough to be accessible to the common man, but fantasy enough to evoke Lord of the Rings type material. I just hope they ease off on this Eberron-only fad with regards the rest of the game. Every single D&D game nowadays is set in Eberron, but ignores the City of Towers and just sets itself in Xen'Drik - they're using the setting, but they aren't. The core experience of D&D has always been Greyhawk - killing a mishmash of monsters in dungeons and taking their treasure. Alas, this wouldn't make for a good TV series.
A new Star Trek movie is in the works.
Plus who needs a DnD cartoon when we have Korgoth?
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Hhhmm... interesting that everyone is speculating about a fourth edition while 3.5 is already undergoing a major shift of focus...
I remember threads in which readers complained about the quality of MM IV, the necessity of a new encounter format e.g. in the Castle Ravenloft adventure, or the increasing concentration on miniature play...
Most of this happened during the last year.
Compare MM I - III to MM IV,
compare older environment supplements to "Citiscape",
compare the new encounter format to older WotC adventures,
consider the amount of dungeon tiles and miniature products being published in 2006...
You can like it or not, but 3.5 is already undergoing a major change, even though the rules are still the same. How many (if any) rules changes a new edition will add to this, is another question, but the D&D you know is already changing right now. ;-)
Greetings,
Günther
I, like Sebastian, cannot avoid speaking up.
On an older point:
I doubt D&D would stop having classes at any junction. Simply enough, it would not be D&D without Classes, the standards races, and the 6 stats. In fact, at the 3e announcment, WotC admitted this much.
Because there are umpteen classless systems out there, and it has, if anything, become the norm, D&D remains unique by virtue of its classes.
That being said, there is an excellent point in the current shift. I do not think it necessarily points to a 4e, but it doesn indicate new directions in the market in light of the trouble some companies are having with profitability.
Well it's certainly a quandary thats for sure. People raise the issue of lower sales, profitability, etc and many will jump to the conclusion that more books (or minis) need to be put out there to address this shift in balance.
I don't think this is always the case.
For one our world is changing thanks largely to the internet and the expanding possibilities of online gaming.
Secondly, as a consumer of tabletop roleplay products I can say that a book has to be worthwhile to me before I buy it. Now I'm sure there will be many, many people who will buy everything that is released, but I'd estimate that the majority of people are like me whom buy whatever piques their interest or whatever books they need.
In regards to new editions, just look at what happened to Star Wars: everyone got angry because of the audacity of wotc for creating new additions to coincide with each film. Of course this is predictable buisness sense, but I don't blame anyone for being angry for having to pay out $30 or whatever for a new book every year until the trilogy is complete so you can get minor rules tweaks and pretty new pictures on the inside/cover.
The backlash of this stunted the Star Wars line so much so that only now is it making any forward progress.
To me, 3.5 ED is still new. I'd not be too happy if all of a sudden a radical rules change came about in the guise of 4th ED. It would reak of a buisness move, and not a move to make the game more fun - which should be the only reason why we get a 4th edition in the first place.
will forget how mediocre Enterprise was and end up longing for a new one.
Anathema! That was the best series of them all!
Anyway, just consider this. Star Wars d20 is getting a new edition already. And it's going to be heavy on miniatures use. Expect in the next few years a miniature heavy 4th edition. Someone posted it as a joke in this thread, but now that I saw the new Star Wars - The Saga edition (or something like that) scheduled for 2007, my fears have come true.
By the way, I loathe RPG with miniatures, so I'll guess I'll have to go to WoD...
From what I've read, the new Star Wars is going to be a very streamlined d20 version of it's old (not it's old old) self. Less classes, more balance (they hope).
I just hope this means a revitalization of the entire range.