Hey All, I'm starting a new campaign with my group and I'm thinking of creating a cleric as my PC. The only thing is that I hate the whole..Healing....Love....Caring....Undead Smiting...aspect of them....I need a cleric with some power and some mystery...I was wondering if anyone has any good ideas regarding a non-healer cleric build (ie. domains, deities, PrC etc..). Also, if anyone wants to state their feelings on this matter, that'd be awesome!
Thanks TPO
Unearthed Arcana, page 50. There is a cleric variant called the cloistered cleric.
"The cloistered cleric spends more time than other clerics in study and prayer and less in martial training. He gives up some of the cleric's combat prowess in exchange for greater skill success and a wider range of spells devoted to knowledge (and the protection of knowledge)."
They have a lore ability like bards and automatically gain knowledge as a bonus spellcasting domain. They use d6 for hit dice, have a poor base attack bonus, and their class skill list includes: Decipher script, speak language, and all knowledge skills.
Skill points are gained at 6+ int modifier per level (x4 at 1st).
There is nothing inherently humanocentric about this class variant. I could see a rather spooky academic of a holyman providing a nice aside from the same ol same ol.
"Anyone need a splint?"
A holyman who studies the esoteric mysteries behind the workings of their god is quite unlike those zombie battering band-aiders that have you so bored.
One note: No chaotics, they lack the discipline for this class.
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If you're still looking to be somewhat combat oriented, you might consider choosing to be an evil cleric. Without spontaneous healing, you can't be accused of having anything ready.
Taking a feat that allows you to "burn" a turn attempt for the day eliminates your ability to deal with undead. For a while we had a cleric of an evil god that used "divine vigor" with the use of a turn attempt, I believe. I believe that feat was from Complete Divine.
Spell selection is the most important thing. With so many good spells for combat (Divine Favor, Righteous Might, etc), you can turn into a powerful combatant if you know ahead of time that the fight is coming. When you're actually contributing to the fight, your companions are unlikely to demand that you provide a larger "back-up role".
The last suggestion I have is trying to hide your true class. The feasibility depends on the level of knowledge of your players, but the word "cleric" has so many expectations built in that it is best if you can avoid it altogether. Depending on how your DM feels, he might suggest that you've created your own 20 level base class....
Good luck.
My suggestion would be to make a battlepriest. It really isn't that hard to make, all you have to do is up your Strength and Constitution, and invest in some heavy armor and a good weapon. That way, you are a fighting-type, with the ability to cast spells.
For Deity/Domains, I would personally go with St. Cuthbert. The domains of Strength and Destruction go good for it, because a feat of strength and a smite attack can be really nice when in a tough fight. Plus if you take a lot of the buff spells, you can really kick some butt. You can then heal yourself later. I had one (Half-Orc Cleric 8 of St. Cuthbert) who actually made his allies afraid!
Of course, you have to sacrifice a bit in the way of charisma and Intelligence. The aforementioned character had a Intelligence of 8 and a Charisma of 5. Your turning suffers, but that doesn't really matter when you can kill most of it anyways.
All of the suggestions here are great, but if your party lacks a healer of any kind and you're it then I'd be careful what sort of cleric you play. As an ordinary cleric you typically don't need to take any healing spells at all, unless you play an evil cleric (or a neutral one who has chosen the inflict wounds option), so you don't need to get bogged down with healing.
Of course, you could play a favored soul. They don't turn undead, can grow wings, and are more martially minded in some ways that traditional clerics. You could also, as suggested, get a couple of divine feats that allows you to burn turning checks to activate their abilities.
Really, a cleric is the party's medic for good reason, he's the best class at healing. If you don't play a cleric willing to heal your comrades you might soon garner their dislike/resentment. Really, the whole love...healing...caring...undead smiting routine is overemphazized by too many people when talking about clerics. Of all the true spellcasting classes they probably pack the most punch in melee combat, and their spells are good at augmenting their fighting abilities and the fighting abilities of others, not to mention their nifty domain abilities (you could be smiting elementals instead).
My last thought is one of perplexity. Why even play a cleric if you don't want to sometimes heal people or sometimes turn undead. Play a really religious wizard or fighter instead!
Hey All, I'm starting a new campaign with my group and I'm thinking of creating a cleric as my PC. The only thing is that I hate the whole..Healing....Love....Caring....Undead Smiting...aspect of them....I need a cleric with some power and some mystery...I was wondering if anyone has any good ideas regarding a non-healer cleric build (ie. domains, deities, PrC etc..). Also, if anyone wants to state their feelings on this matter, that'd be awesome!
Thanks TPO
My favourite Cleric to date was a fellow named "Chance," so named because it was sheer luck he survived the cold night he'd been left on the orphanage front step.
He grew up fascinated by luck and chance, and that led him, naturally, to Olidamarra.
As a cleric of Olidamarra, he had Luck and Trickery as his domains, and his fast-and-loose style of worship was a blast to play. He had a knack for picking things up quickly (the "Able Learner" feat from 'Races of Destiny'), and was very well-rounded. Although he was a spontaneous healer, he rarely relied on this as his key use. He was all about Bluff, Disguise, <I>disguise self</I> spells, and his spell selection really focused on things that tipped the odds to his favor and/or screwed up the bad guys (<I>bane</I>, <I>bless</I>, etc). Rarely did he use the flashy spells. His luck domain ability he often used for his own saving throws.
The backstory eventually unfolded that he was the child of two Chameleons who had realized (and balked) at the evil side of the organization (again, see 'Races of Destiny') - and he had the potential to be a very good Chamelon, which they were afraid he'd do. He's been noticed by the Chameleons, and just got his first level of the PrC - and as of yet doesn't know his background and/or the truth of the organization. He's too busy really enjoying having the martial focus (he was not Mr. Combat, really).
Has he turned undead? Gosh yes. Has he healed the party? Sure. Is that what he's known for? Not even slightly. He's the face of the group, the one that can also sneak around beside the thief, who gets in and out of social situations with the aplomb of a bard, and - in my humble opinion - the really fun fellow of the group.
My last thought is one of perplexity. Why even play a cleric if you don't want to sometimes heal people or sometimes turn undead. Play a really religious wizard or fighter instead!
First of all thanks for all the awesome ideas...I have those sourcebooks and know those feats, I just can never really piece them all together to make a good character. As for Your question to me, the reason why I want to play a cleric is I like the idea of being part of a church and all the mysteries and intrigues that go along with it...Challenging the beliefs and morales of the other PCs, also, mechanically, I appreciate the ability the cleric has to cast powerful spells and is not a complete wimp when it comes to battle. Finally, I'm not opposed to playing an evil character, and following the edicts of an unscrupulous deity gives you alot more reason be evil....heheh...
TPO
First of all thanks for all the awesome ideas...I have those sourcebooks and know those feats, I just can never really piece them all together to make a good character. As for Your question to me, the reason why I want to play a cleric is I like the idea of being part of a church and all the mysteries and intrigues that go along with it...Challenging the beliefs and morales of the other PCs, also, mechanically, I appreciate the ability the cleric has to cast powerful spells and is not a complete wimp when it comes to battle. Finally, I'm not opposed to playing an evil character, and following the edicts of an unscrupulous deity gives you alot more reason be evil....heheh...
TPO
These are all decent points but the party is going to desperatly need the services of a cleric that will heal them. Personally I encourage my players to look into things like the prestige classes at higher levels. Furthermore with the spontanous healing you choose everything but healing spells and occasionally you even use them as none healing spells.
While this might not sound too exciting its worth pointing out that at lower levels the Cleric is the partys backup fighter. Usually better in combat then the thief and always better then the mage. So you'll get some excitement from that. At higher levels take cool prestige classes and augument the medic role by summoning Angels to battle or other fun concepts. The Book of Exalted Deeds has some cool prestige classes for the good guys. But your party's life expectancy will go down the drain if you won't heal them and when the bad guys drag down the fighter you'll regret not having healed her as its hard to run fast in all that armour which tends to lead to the Orcs making Cleric Flambe out of your carcass.
I agree with someone up above.
You can play a religiously devoted fighter or, if you can handle the alignment, play a paladin. Both have far less healing (or none)but have that church connection and can challenge the party members.
Rooster
You can play a religiously devoted fighter or, if you can handle the alignment, play a paladin
This was mentioned in another posting, and while I can see where your'e coming from, when I said power I really meant in the form of damage or disabling spells, and what sort of domains grant a cleric access to these type of spells....Combat is really not for me, I've tried being a fighter before and it really bored me, the reason why I play D&D not Diablo is because it's more than just hack-and-slash.......Anyway....so any thoughts on anything I say, please comment!
Here are a few suggestions about the domains you might choose to play a more combat oriented cleric.
Death domain: You don't need to be evil to take this domain, but good clerics might have a problem (since creating undead is an evil act). The domain gives you the death touch power, plus some nifty spells such as deathknell, slay living, and destruction. The spells are extremely deadly and it gives you the ability to animate loyal troops. The only problem is that there a not any area effect spells in the domain except for wail of the banshee, and certain types of monsters are immune to the spells on the list.
Destruction domain: This combat-oriented domain gives you the smite ability, and several cool damaging spells including disintegrate and implosion. The only problem is that the domain is less worthwhile for clerics that spontaneously inflict wounds.
Fire domain: This domain is full of destructive spells and protective spells that deal damage to enemies. You can also turn or rebuke fire creatures. The only drawback is that the spells only deal fire damage.
Sun domain: While the granted power is geared towards undead, many of the spells are good damaging spells like searing light, flame strike, sunbeam and sunburst. A lot of the spells also deal light damage instead of fire damage and so overcome fire resistance.
War domain: The best domain for a combat cleric, the war domain gives you access to a martial weapon without needing to multiclass or take a feat. Also, the lower level spells are geared towards making you a better fighter, while the higher level spells can deal quite a bit of damage or incapacitate your opponents, such as flame strike, blade barrier, and power word stun.
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Another interesting choice of non-healer cleric types is the Suel goddess Bralm, the Hive Mother. There's nice mention of her in the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer and on Canonfire. She is a LN goddess of community dicipline, industry (not heavy industry, just good old fashioned, roll-your-sleeves-up work), and swarming insects. Her official domains are Law, Animals, and Strength (I belive), but in the past, some of my friends and I have held that Community may be a better domain for her than Strength (the whole hive motif, after all). Anyway, a quick read through of her shows that she's not a soft-cuddly kind of goddess and if those blasted co-adventurers want any healing from you, they damn well better be towing their portion of the line!
Well, as far as Prestige Classes go, I say give a good look at the 3.0 version of Faiths & Pantheons book (for Forgotten Realms). The prestige classes there tend to focus on a specific aspect of a respective deity. For example, the prestige class associated to Waukeen (cannot remember the exact name offhand) focuses on Waukeen's portfolio of accumulation of wealth and protecting that wealth. For Cyric, the Strifelords are about, well, causing fear and strife. Or the Gondsmen, focused on constructing an unique construct who is like a bodyguard and it increases in power and ability as your levels in the Gondsman prestige class increases.
Basically, if you do not want your fellow players to take your pc for granted as a "healer," then try downplaying your ability to heal (for example, offer only to heal those of the same faith or alignment, or those who offer to tithe to your church) or concentrate on a specific theme for the cleric that does not involve healing.
Personally, for coolness factor and probably how easy it is to powergame with, the prestige classes for followers of Mystra and Gond listed in Faiths & Pantheons are probably the best.
Oh, and the best cleric I have ever played was a cleric who could wrestle (back in 2nd Edition, using Skills & Powers). I did it as a joke at the time and it was worth it. I never expected anyone to take that pc seriously but he could actually hold his ground in melee. It was equally odd and amusing.
CB Out.
This was mentioned in another posting, and while I can see where your'e coming from, when I said power I really meant in the form of damage or disabling spells, and what sort of domains grant a cleric access to these type of spells....Combat is really not for me, I've tried being a fighter before and it really bored me, the reason why I play D&D not Diablo is because it's more than just hack-and-slash.......Anyway....so any thoughts on anything I say, please comment!
The most fun I ever had as a cleric was playing a slightly mad teenager who had been chosen as the reluctant cleric of a reluctant god. He had been caught in a blizzard, about to die and had prayed to anything to save him. Enter "Tach, god of lost causes and hopeless situations." Tach had been a thief so good he had bragged he could even steal from the gods. In punishment, the gods made him one of them, thus giving him godly powers and ruining the challenge of stealing. Being a god Tach needed followers, but he was a bit put out with the whole god racket, so he swore he'd only use the most hopeless specimens he could find. Enter my PC. Fever wracked and dying of exposure, he was saved and brought back to health as a cleric. Of course, Tach had the annoying habit of speaking to my PC all the time, prompting him to talk to himself out loud. It made for a really odd running one-sided conversation at the table. Definitely not your typical cleric.
And as we all know, mental health issues are funny.
Einan