uzagi's page

Quite a bunch of semi-protagonist characters in David Gemmells oeuvre tend to be homo-sexual (although never the main character ), although they tend to both slightly stereotypical and usually elderly. Still, taken very much in stride.

Steven Erikson got mentioned, methinks. Liz Williams has some, usually lesbian or bi-sexual protagonists. Never impacts the stroyline all that much.

As for RPG, we had - over the years - several male homosexually oriented characters around, a few females too. Yielded astounding results and memorable scenes. Strangely enough, our RL homosexual player played "straight" characters most of the time... go figure for surprises.

^^^ Ouch, that's harsh. Sad to hear that your PCs may not get to finish the STAP - if I was on the business end of that flash attack I'd probably feel the same way they do right now. I'm gonna have to go and retool that guy so I don't run into the same trouble.

Actually contemplating to run them through "Expedition to the Demonwebs" and re-hit the final installments of the STAP from sideways, catching wind of Big-Ds plot while fighting through that mini-campaign. May have to write up an adventure or two linking it up to the STAP and adding enough XP to make them competitive, but well.....

@kobold Lord
Nice idea with teh necropolitans, but for one I was under the impression that was a voluntary change to undeath... and well, since Vhzortys was operating in "snipping-lobster"-mode and a carnivore at that... "Return of the zombie torsoes" ?

mis-typed above, yes, you are not stunned if you save, but the problem is, one will in all likelihoofd fail the initial save. As for "will being blinded by the effect save you from further blasts"... We passed the question around at the table, and everyone agreed, that the power did not actually "burn out your eyes", but worked similar to 'snow-blindness' = over-exposure of the optic nerves, leaving you with glaring after images, but basically with your sight intact, just useless. Yeah, they could have tried to wriggle themselves out of repeat flash-exposures by going all rules-lawyerly, but kudos to the group, they are to decent and old-fashioned for that.

Hence, you could get re-"flashed", as your eyes were stuck open from the initial blast's stun. And with a follow up free-action "hold monster" by Vhzortys every round solidifying the situation anyway ?

Besides, being stuck down in the mud, close range with the eye and likely without a means to even locate the precise spot it is in (only one character with scent ) the 50/50 chance to hit is the least of their worrries...

As for the tactical advice - sure, all of that works, although IMO not very well in the confines of the stronghold ( no space for kiting without drawing massive unwanted attention + enough places to take cover behind for the critter,a nd no compelling reason for it to chase them. besides, it could simply chase them submerged, adding concealment and cover by doing so..), and summoned monsters... well, if they knew in advance that is was there, and summoned some help... then the whole thing would have gone of differently for sure.
The crux being, the whole thing is an ambush set up in a limited space situation, so basically everyone will be in the AoE of the "flash", and Vhzortys is very likely to gain initiative or a surprise round ( listen +31 and spot +31 will help note approaching groups =) ...).
There is no indication of something like it lurking in the base, no tell-tale clues or rumours. the first thing you notice is when you get hit by the flash... and that is basically game-over. And as I said, had I realized it's deadliness earlier, I would have either removed the beastie, or given some indication as to its presence... The Deinocheus in CoBI is comparably deadly, but there are some advance warnings given for it (and be it the cover of that particular issue of Dungeon, hehe ).

Character(s): Mullorin ( Half Elf Scout3 /Ranger 1/Favoured Soul 12 ); Syvil ( Human Druid - Elemental focus 16 ) and hier Airelemental Companion (aka "Whistler"); Kek ( gnome Illusionist Spec 6 / Fatespinner 5 /Nightmare Spinner 5 ); Typhion ( Star Elf Wizard 3/bard 2/Ultimate Magus 9 - cohort ); Kunk ( Shield Dwarf Fighter 2/Warmage 11 - cohort )
Adventure: Serpents of Scuttlecove
Location: The Abandoned Shack (D11) (again)
Catalyst: Vhzorthys' loving gaze ...."Smile when you die"

Barely one minute after Rogarion (see above) left to scout ahead some, and with Typhion concetrating on a Clairvoyance to check out the wrecks above, the group noticed a bright and sudden, yet noiseless flash from ahead. everybody froze, melted into shadows or hoped the invis spells held. When nothing notable happened (except for some sloshing noises from the water and wildlife screeching in the nocturnal rainforest around them ), and with Rogarion failing to return as planned after a couple of minutes, they moved ahead, following the Rogaion's last known route to the shack D11 (rogarion's player, Marcus, knowing his fate through a series of written notes and answers kept mum. kudos to him ).
Throwing a fast glimpse inside, they spotted nothing (not interacting with the illusionary floor ), then moved in their best SWAT reeneactment. The Warmage and Favoured Soul dropped straight through the floor, as did the ultimate magus cohort, poor Typhion. Typhion landed smack in front of Vhzorthys, who landed an immediate critical with his AoO, rolling high and doing 52 HP of damage. Typhion at least made his save vs massive damage (and wished he hadn't ).
Since Vhzorthys had spotted them through his own illusion, he gained a surprise round, flashing his main eye once. Basically, after that, the fight was over...
Everyone failed their [DC 34 !!!!] Fortitude saves, except for the Warbalde who covered the rear, and was not looking in that direction anyway. With six out of seven characters dead or stunned, havoc reigned, in spades !
Vhzorthys, flashing its main eye every round, restunning and blinding the entire group (even the Warblade, who had rushed inside on the following round and got struck by a hold monster ) repeatedly, plus shooting "Hold Monster" and "Cone of Cold" (with DC 27 saves) at everyone outside immediate range, it started tearing through the helpless, unmoving heroes, delivering "coup de grace" snips to the head, biting of limbs at random (pure flavour) and looking set for a TPK.
Fate (or was it Tymora ? ) was merciful as the Warblade was pulled outside by the druid's air elemental companion tugging him off in whirlwind form, before it being killed when trying to save its mistress Sylvis and Kek's lemming familliar "Banzai" pulling his hood over his eyes, temporarily protecting them both from the dazzling flashes.
Unfortunately, Kek, when attempting to flee was struck by a Ray'ed Cone of Cold and a Hold Monster, saving against neither and getting turned into a floating icicle for his troubles.

After eleven very one-sided turns, with the Warblade finally coming out of his dazed stun some rounds later outside the base in the jungle and blinking away his residual blindness, the thing was over...

We stopped the game for the night - it's likely a CEE ( Campaign Ending Event ) anyway..... The PC corpses are pretty mangled, probably inside Vhzortys digestive system by now and everyone will be hard pressed to fell like going up against him again. And now they know this thing is there, alll tactical planning for Scuttlecove will take it into account.

To be frank, while the group was well prepared, well armed with resistance items etc. they didn't stand the chance of a snowball in hell. Vhzortys is probably an abomination with a DC 34 save versus an AoE stun, with a success only halving the time spent stunned, with an attack mode usable every round as a free action ....... that is too much ? I mean "stun"..... No actions (even purely mental ) no Dex bonus, drop everything you are holding.... how cheesy is that ?

Actually I feel pretty guilty for not having seen that ahead of time and removed it from the campaign.... But as stated somewhere else, the really deadly encounters in the STAP are not those BBEGs, but the "random stuff" besides.

Character: Rogorian, male Half Elf Rogue 3/Ninja 5/Shadowthief of Amn 3/Monk 4
Adventure: Serpents of Scuttlecove
Location: The Abandoned Shack (D11)
Catalyst: Vhzorthys' loving gaze ...."Smile when you die"

Entering the hidden Crimson Fleet base, the PCs decided to come in low over the marsh's tree tops, then set down and do some recon inside the sanctum's screen. Rogorian, quite the shadowy guy and stickler for orderly, dispciplined procedure, scouted ahead. He entered the abandoned shack, avoided the illusionary floor and stopped to activate his darkvision item.
Vhzorthys noticed, rose up some and "flashed" him, followed up by a free action "Hold Monster". Rogarion failed both (ridiculously high... mor eon this elsewhere ) saves and could only watch in rapt horror, screaming inside his skull, as the huhe eye of the Deep proceeded to snip off his limbs before devouring him, while bleeding out....

Considering what followed, the player called it " leaving early to avoid the rush"

Yeah Heath, you and I think that’s kinda cool, but the kiddies who are used to each of the monsters in their computer games having a different, distinctive look might not like it.

hmm, you mean like in FF-VII - FF XII ? Like 30 graphic models overall (excluding bosses ), just clad in differently coloured skins

Or in WoW ? Same phenomenon.... Or Vanguard ? etc etc etc.

More like some Designer's oversized ego trying to leave a mark (and possibly PR-related reasons to stir up debate, thereby raising awareness in 4E )

but I fully agree with you - the mystery is half the fun. Or maybe even more...

music, more music..... (add a lightsaber and stir some )

Muppety

Rap

'nuff said

Elder Being
tentacular scion of Time and Warped Space
ultimate progenitor of Twisted Fate and Ridiculous Luck
the Grand Turk of the Last Laugh and the Wicked Grin
aka "Bender of Rules" and "Advocatus Cthulhuii"
Slave to Chocolate and Mocca

just how is making succubi switch their home-base to the nine hells making things better ? That is just "change for changes sake", but nothing beneficial, and not even close to an improvement.

If they rework the way magic and saves work (especially at high levels ) , or revamp the classes (to make them ore or less attractive ), that is something else...

This is just "pimp my game"....

Oh, and what makes you assume that WotC is actually doing market research ? And since when has market research actually imrpoved a product, in contrast to making it more sellable (which is anything but "better", whatever advertisments to try to tell you )
And asking who ? You speculation is just..... whistling in the woods ?

hmm, the BBEG.

Usually I have no problems keeping them alive (and kicking hard) for more than 5 rounds.... Often enough I have problems not wiping out the party with some of the ready-made guys, simply because I know the PCs in and out (which the BBEG would not)....

looking at the SCAP BBEGs none died quickly, and I usually has at least one PC-Kill/KOd in each fight. The only BBEG who went down too fast lately was "V" in STAP's Tides of Dread

Three main reasons to this.

1) Ablative defense - BBEG use (if intelligent) their minions, often pro-actively to weaken the party, even if by suicidical tactics (usually the BBEg can promise them a far more hideous fate than the PCs' assorted weaponry...). Plus, at times, he doesn't advertise he is the BBEG, doing a quick hit and run to harass the group then fading away.

2) Mobility - BBEG try not to get caught in tight corners and cul-de-sacs. they also try to stay in motion, avoiding full-attacks (even at the cost of risking an AoO at times) and love doing ranged attacks (just like the group would ). If they feel the combat going against them, they will opt to eliminate more mobile opoonents, and only than run... no sense in running if you get overtaken or hauled in... My group has also learned that pursuing a BBEG on the the run may have consequences ( say if only one or two guys follow him... and suddenly face the villain all on their own ), which makes them by now queasy to do so.

3) Initiative - the BBEG usually do not wait for the PCs to start combat, handing tghem the advantage of where and when to fight. They pick the place ( if they can or the circumstances allow ) and usually try to make the PCs react to their actions, not vice versa.

Yes, they try do deliver the usual villain monologue, they just don't sacrifice the tactical advantage for it.... one can always monologue to the last "hero" squirming beneath your heel (if any ) once you finished mopping them up, right ?

The problem is, WotC want to "simplfy" things they themseves have made complex in the first place, if only to sell more books.

But, that said, I would rather downsize a world from a "complex" version to one more fitting to my gaming needs, than buy a simple on, and than clobber onto that whatever I need. Simply because I like to use my creative energy to adapt, shape and expand or cut to size something complex, rather than laying entirely new foundations.

DnD has compelxity and options in spades, basically, that is IMHO its very central strength. You have options andand rules for almost every eventuality, but need to use only those you want - I mean, who has ever used all the entities from MM I-V, the three environment books, FC I+II, FF and whatever else ? Noone, I guess. But everyone uses different stuff, so everything has its place and time. Plus, you never are really sure what you are facing, which is satisfying on a simple, tactical level. What sort of golem ? What sort of outsider ? Or is it just an illusion to hide something "normal" ?

I like the interesting, often genius creations, tactics and gambits my (co-)players come up with from the complex system that is DnD 3.5. I love the roleplaying opportunities when interacting with "monsters", because one never knows just if everything is what it appears to be, not to mention its motives etc...

And if I wanted "easy to sort" villains and opoosition, I would play Pokemon.

Oh, and as an afterthought - change, while not a bad thing inherently, should serve a purpose. If 4E does away with Vancian magic yet keeps the numerous options of the remaining Magic system I feel an interest. To change "canon" facts for the purpose of just making the opposition easier to tag and catalogue (ever had a look at biology ? Species categories are FAR from clean-cut !), that is something I just don't care about. I like my succubi demonic, chaotic and without hierachy but with lots of selfishness - just the way FC-I portrayed them.

As for the OP

Assuming that the PC knew/viewed beyond reasonable doubt Kedward as evil and general threat to "goodness" etc. I personally wouldn't rule the act of slaying him as "evil". Things had come down to a "slay or be slain" situation and the character does not seem bound by a "code of honour". He also had presumably reason to fear Kedward responding with lethal force.
As for the act of dominating Kedward, to gain" normal" prices (instead of "dirt cheap" or "for free" ), chaotic as in against the laws, yes, but evil and selfish ? He wanted to enforce fair trade, not rob the guy....
so, definitely not !
Hence I would consider an alignment shift to CE forced on the player by you both arbitrary and unfair. He hasn't acted out of alignment. He hasn't done something so vile he can never be redeemed (like slaying the inncoent vorgin highpriestess of peace to find out what she is wearing underneath her robes say.... /just kidding ).
While the PC may have gotten some stuff for "free", he effectively sealed off that particular source of items for any further purchases, plus killing off a potential ally. He wil also have tipped off the powers-that-be of Scuttlecove as to the capabilities of the party, never a good thing. And in all honesty, how much magic wares is Kedward going to have on his person, ready for the take by a daring robber ?

As for outside revenge - I guess most people Kedward dealt with will not shed a tear over his demise and rather make sure the evil ba****d will not rise from the dead ! One less competitor / one less being you bore a strong grudge to / one less enslaver of the weak and unloved master..... And he has probably sold his mom, too, at a bargain price in all likelihood =)
And hell ? Why should they of all beings go and avenge themselves on his slayers ? He probably met his final doom far too early for his liking (and far too late for hell's ), so they now have his immortal and powerful soul at their beg and call sooner than they hoped for, ready to be devoured, traded or shaped into a a servant... because that is what infernal bargains are done for, from hell's perspective !

So why send a Balor to mess up the guys who did them a favour ?

well, WotC may just have overlooked the fact, that people buy a title regularly because they like the content.

Since the content (e.g. the authors and their works for 3.5 ) stays/-ed with "Pathfinder"----> "Dear WotC have fun with "Dungeon" Online, but if you think I will purchase that stuff, you are sadly mistaken !
Especially if you start to publish 4E stuff, since I am not going to buy that either... hence" *wave*

Penkus might just have leeched onto the characters when they Discovered his corpse and message in Sasserine. Have hi manifest now and then ( certainly each time when they cross blades with Vanthus ) and have him gloat then, as his "agents of revenge" strike down Vanthus time after time !

Might also be useful as a deux ex machina, perhaps passing cryptic warnings, or inadvertendly warning the PCs about ambushes, simply by manifesting and setting their teeths on edge ?

never had much of a problem having the group with their backs to the wall, wailing, with just the standard "play-as-printed opposition", although I do habitually change some of the equipment and spell load, to fit my particular tastes at times... Khala for example got some potions to beef him up some.

But the fun part is, the really deadly encounters are usually those which nobody much thinks about, looking like random obstacles.... like the flotsam ooze, the T-Rex (both of them ), the anaconda at the Jaguar temple, the deinochyous or the bored-to-death yugoloth in SoS's treasury (Ghourgos for the win !)... I agree with hamster, the party death often enough lurks with the "harmless" guys, making for a most ignominous death.

lol, sorry to all "Mats" out there for calling you "irresponsible", and the same goes to all the unknown "Bobs" whom I inadvertendly praised, hehe. I meant them as abstractions, but.....

I was about to type a line in that post to the effect that I simply picked two generic american names, but thought that...superfluous ?
.. ouch... Tymora is not with me today, I guess !

just wondering, is this group we are talking about ? The one you call

"The thing is, I'm not 100% about how to run it. The group are all top strategists and used to playing tactically with minis while I've always been more of a loose, story and action over how many squares you can move kind of DM." ?

Because, given that knowledge, my "Spider Sense" that someone is trying to pull a really fast one on you as the GM kicks into HIGH ALERT mode....

Good Luck

if you limit the VoPs applicable "window of use", your call as the GM . It's still very much against the rules as drawn up by the game's designers (who may have their more or less excellent reasons ), and I could still think up some fairly abusive druid + VoP combinations even without the use of wildshape thrown in, but it is your campaign.

You asked for advice - you have to apply it yourself for the way it fits your style of gaming. Obviously you (plan to ) do.
Personally I would blanch, since allowing this rule bending on VoP once means setting a precedent for the entire group, besides allowing that deeply broken feat into a running camapaign, and the roleplaying paradoxons it does create because it really doesn't fit the normal religious style of the chosing characters patron diety, Shaundakuhl.
And - another ( more min-maxing) player may want to do something similar in the future (say upon his own character's death ) - are you really going to tell him "no Matt, not for you, only Bob may do this because he is such a reasonable player.." ? I don't think so, so bear this in mind....
And heavens fend, I know some pretty good, intense and dedicated role-players who'd still play something as abusive as they could get away with... one does not preclude the other.
And "roleplaying" is no safety-net against it not ruining your campaign through overshadowing, others, rendering encounters moot or insignificant or simply leading to ridiculous situations - far less a "fun" thing than redesigning one character, even it it may displease that player momentarily.

And... be careful about other players loaning him equipment, or the group chugging of the "junk-loot" on him... her take the hundred barrels of rum, each 50gp each... we take the magic armour and the ring of whack...

In a totally different vein (it got mentioned in an another thread sometime back ), be aware that it will be pretty difficult (through circumstances ) for the character to actually donate his wealth to an outside, independent charity or organisation (as the VoP requires ) which the character draws no immediate benefit from or by (such as founding a local temple, which does give him influence etc. ) in a long stretch of the STAP - from SWW until SoS to be precise, unless the group employs teleport magics to return to civilisation from time to time.
Roleplaying this and having the character haul around loot from like 3-6 adventures stacked up for later "donation" may just cause abuse potential in and of itself.

Good Luck and an enjoyable campaign

i dont think there is anything in those wows that disallow working with tanari.. just to be good and to not own stuff. Even afaik the paladins wows dont go that far, and neither do the saints expectations... well, some might have all kinds of expectations, but in reality?

Sure, working with that ahazu slimeball will likely be impossible, but to recruit demonlords to fight eachother? Bah.. thats the kind of thing heroes do all the time, getting two evil organisations to bash eachother up!

Especially if they are making sure evil wont get any stronger, by seizing the maw... perhaps with that eladrin assistance, kicking out their "allies"..

I would sincerly recommend reading page 9 of the "Book of Exalted Deeds". It depicts the nature of Exalted status as envisioned by the designers of the entire concept (including the feats, e.g. Vow of Poverty ), and the things unscionable for such a being.

And while anglo-saxon common law tends to - if in doubt - interpret things by the (mere) letter of the written rules (instead of the intent and spirit of the agreement ), that is widely considered an abusive way of bending the spirit of the rules and laws governing a system....

And as for evil weaking each other - if the PCs win ( as I guess they plan to ) Iggwilv, Orcus and several others will (vastly) profit from the groups efforts against Demogorgon...

Well, since the druid in question is about 3rd level, I suppose that particular STAP was not started until well after at least WoD was out. Besides the "general outline aka sneak preview" of the STAP having been out for almost 16 moinths now...

And easing up on the restrictions faced by a paladin or even an exalted characters for pragmatisms sake simply invites the abuse of these pretty powerful, if not outright broken, feats, now and in future campaigns.

of course, people's expereince may vary

Hmmm, the Lotus Dragon hideout ?

to be honest, the entire Lotus Dragon compound was rather boring on the tactical side of things, since the group got entry without any forewarning and, by sheer conincidence, went straight for the barracks. A few good listen rolls later they hit the relaxing rogues at full (screaming ) tilt and drove the few fleeing survivors before them through the corridors, until everyone ended up in the torture chamber, which was the one big fight of the dungeon, but nothing to write home about... ( "Jet of Steam" hurts in close quarters )

After that ( a dozen Lotus Dragons put out of business ) it was simply a matter of mopping up the complex - judicious use of familliars (the rat proved excellent for this ) for recon, and several harsh intimidate checks later, all of the human LDs were fleeing or surrendering....

The only high points of thrill remaining were Rowyn, the kobold cook (who ended up in his own fireplace ) and the poor sun-starved worg.

And Rowyn really did not fare well against colour spray and suggestions.....

Yeah, they are a "sideshow", but in a way, they are there to give the PCs confidence and practise their teamwork. The opposition is nothing to write home about.. after all these guys are smugglers - likelier to slip off and restart business someplace else, then stand and fight for some weird cult or principle.

And the roleplaying in the LD-compound (searching through Rowyn's boudoir... or the taxidermist above..) .... ahhhh, now that was fun =)

uzagi wrote:

@turin

not much to be added.... but weren't lengthy missives my "trademark" ? I feel copied... cheapened....... "remade in Taiwan" even.... *sigh*

*grin*

Cheapened ? LOL ... try perusing my campaign journal on the STAP ... I have a nasty habit of running long...

And of course if anyone's the TM'd in Taiwan, that dubious distinction probably belongs to me. *grin*

touché !

Interesting take - but I would disagree.

A paladin or an exalted character achieves and maintains his status by being exemplary - a living incarnation of what his diety stands for and encompasses. On his _own_ free will, despite any obstacles and challenges life cares to throw his way.
To persist in one's believes even in the way of impossibility, martyring or sacrificing oneself for one's faith and principles. To not choose the easier road, even if given excemption to do so, because it would be against one's strongly held, iron-clad believes.
Saints are ready to die for the message/faith their embody, demonstrating that keeping the faith is more important than pragmatism and self-preservation. Perhaps their deiific patron will intervene and save them, but an exalted character who follows the requirements of exalted status will not _ask_ or dare to hope for his patron to intervene on his behalf.

Of course this is a heroic and idealized (as espoused by the BoED) take on sainthood, and looking at historic reality one will be hard pressed to match saintliness and actual events for many saintly and blessed souls, but this is heroic fantasy roleplaying.

Exalted Feats are above-par throughout, and hence should be played with massive roleplaying strictures attached. If a player should not want these, well, he is free not to take those feats.

And if a GM allows them into the camapaign, that is His/her responsibility. GMing, I see it as my (cherished and beloved, make no mistake ) duty to rpovde a fun, gripping and entertaining game. For everyone. If a player's personal choice of character will likely ruin or impede the other players' fun, and the GM can foresee it, than it is his job to nib this thread in the bud.
Because - this way you may have one player grumbling ( for a short time ) but the other way round, you will likely have a broken camapign on your hands... with an entire set of miffed players, too, in all likelihood.

hmmm, I usually have some notes tacked onto my script, reminding me as to which playlist or track to switch to. about the same amount of work as getting the relevant index card for the encounter or monster.

Of course they could get a Shadow Striking weapon (ToM, p 155) - +3 enhancement that bypasses any DR. Then again, these might not all that easy to acquire due to the restrictions in the enchanting process.... Even if the GM allows ToM material in the campaign.

Of course, playing with warblade from BoNS in my campaign , DR is not really much of a subject for the MT, given the capabilities of the "stone dragon" school of combat. But that way he only strikes once each round...

Other people invested in the "Sense Weakness" feat from Draconomicon.

Overall, I like the high DRs encountered throughout the STAP, really puts a leash on those whirling dervish lookalikes when their weaponry keeps bouncing off the baddies.... several times a turn !

In use around here :

Children of Dune - OST
Shadow of the Colossus - OST ( general purpose/ allrounder )
Gladiator - OST (only rarely these days)

PotC - OST ( big surprise )
Requiem for a Dream - OST ( usually for build-up for major battles, such as ToD )
13th Warrior - OST ( worked wonders for the jungle scenes and Kopru tunnels )

The Quiet American - OST ( Sasserine and purely social scenes )
Serenity - OST ( for selected spooky scenes )

and (the allrounder-OST)

Chronicles of Riddick - OST

The main problem for a paladin, and even more so an 'exalted' character is WoD ....

A number of scenes in EomE will likely become problematic too, especially around Miss "M"

As for the "heresy" feat - does it strike anybody else but me as a sort of contradiction to have a devoted religious exemplar of his religion actually be a heretic deviant from the established faith and tenets ? I have a nagging suspicions these two feats are mutually exclusive, if not by the rules, at least by common sense

Just my 2 cents...

aehh, run that past me again.

A druid in the service of Shandakuhl (CN deity), hence with an alignment of either neutral or chaotic neutral (within one step of teh diety's alignment, and with CG and CE being unavialable alignments to druids ) ?

Prerequisites vor Vow of Poverty (exalted) = Sacred Vow (exalted) (BoED)

"you have willingly given yourself to the service of a _good_ diety"...

Seems like the prerequisites are fairly.... bent, to say the least. Also, "exalted" feats, according to the BoED are meant for those who are shining paragorns of "Good" - which a (chaotic) neutral druid is most certainly not, or not a druid for very much longer. This means, massively "good" roleplaying (think "as holy as they come" )... Any major infraction = loss of "Exalted" feats, no reimbursement, no chance for a regain through "atonement"

This is above and beyond the simple fact that nothing in the portfolio of Shandakuhl makes "poverty in the service of others" anything the diety expects or even seeks in his worshippers (unlike say, Ilmater or Lathander, to name some FR entities). Plus, a chaotic neutral diety rewarding one of his servants for binding himself with a strict vow - something that for Shaundakuhl would be rather an anathema ?
Shaundakuhl is about new experiences, travelling, broadening one's horizons, basically freedom epitomized - not about community service, sharing one's gains for the benefit of all and finding fullfillment by serving others. Not about being a better, kinder, more generous and forgiving person than the average commoner...
Now, a "saint", a religious exemplar of the diety and his "message" is in _not_ a "bound to poverty" druid roaming the world, where he saves as an example to very few, and inspires noone at all.... And unlikely to be a shining example of "goodness", which is required for "exalted" feats

Sorry, that entire character-setup smacks intensely of "min-maxing" against all the roleplaying background for the feats used , the Forgotten Realms setup (and canon, for all that it's worth ) and even against several core rules.

that much needs to be said for the legality of the background

As for "balance".....
Once the druid starts to use wild-shaping (or the shapechanging druid-ption from PHB-II ) this feat gets totally out of balance, since those powers are balanced against the fact that usually they derive a normal druid of the benefits of his/her equipment, and replace it with a more or less well calibrated set of abilities and features...
Since a VoP Druid has no equipment to begin with , he sacrifices nothing - but retains his massive boni even in wildshape or shapechanged forms.

Very very much broken .... basically, what you have on your hands is not a can of worms, but a gasometer of maggots.....

My only recommendation - jank the chain, let the player rebuild the character before he starts trashing your campaign.

It's your campaign....

PS - I don't think the VoP Shaundakuhlian druid fits the spirit of the STAP very much, and will most certainly be in exceedingly hot water ethically from "Wells of Darkness" onwards ----> because what holds true for the problems faced by paladins, holds twice as true for characters of Exalted status.

Hmm groups vary - the guys I play with regularly build chars with a variety of "sensor modes".

Atm ( STAP, SoS), 3 characters with stealth, one character with "senselink" ('Argent Dilletante' PrC power), 2 characters with Clairvoyance items, a maximum stealthed familliar ( rat with custom made +10 to hide item, shrink at will; tattoo adding a stealth bonus... ). Not to mention the custom-made "dice of fate" (casting "diviniation" 3/day...) of the Tymoran priest

Which means they waste a bunch of stuff on reconaissance, and are easily spooked (especially after having been kicked about in the few ambushes they did not avoid ).
Therefore, they move very very carefully--- and miss a bunch of stuff, both dangerous and beneficial ( they only moved into the Temple of the jaguar after lightless depths, after sensing the huge anaconda, and declining to face it ---> made their fight in ToD somewhat harder )

@guyhumual

As for "Sudden Dim-Door"

Quickened "Dimension Hop" or "Dimension leap" (level 2 both). Neither has the disorientation effect of "Dimension Door". Range of 100+' (at level 20) should be sufficient , and you get to use a lesser spell slot.

Otto's dance ? Have ABBA's "Dancing Queen" at the ready on your I-pod, speakers attached.......... that alone should humiliate Demogorgon into eternal disintegration *wicked*

@turin
not much to be added.... but weren't lengthy missives my "trademark" ? I feel copied... cheapened....... "remade in Taiwan" even.... *sigh*

*grin*

The group passed up on the sleeping aboleths after they had cast some divinations suggesting to conserve their strength for the "Lurking Terrors Three" (Kopru Highpriest, Bilewretch and the Brain Collector ).

Overall, this installment was played pretty much on "stealth mode" after those "divinations" and the initial aboleth-encounter. No-one cared for a repeat of that.

As for Procan = Tlaloc ? Why not, always nice to have a cleric's player feel the impact of his diety's works from ages ago and plots unrelated to himself.
On the other hand, you might just open a can of worms with the cleric starting to use divination magic ( Commune ) with his knowledgable (since he was already involved in the struggle centuries before ) diety.... Depends upon your type of player(s)

what can I say except "good luck" ?

and anyway, my initial post was aimed at "jib"s OP

interesting reasons - even if they are not convincing to my mind, although I admit that is a matter of POV... Simply because a lot of material in the STAP relies on the Splat-books, Fiendish Codices, MMs 2-4. there is even stuff from the "Tome of Magic".
Material a GM will have to convert by hand and "rule of thumb" estimates, until the corresponding 4th edition sourcebooks are out... 4+ years hence, if the original publishng shedule is any hint ?

Which basically means, you will not test the validity of 4th edition rules, but the servicability of your "conversion " and prediction of them. So, you really have an unknown number of variables affecting the "quality" of 4th edition, e.g. each of your personal adaptions and transfers into 4.0

If things can even be converted - if the WotC statement of "mechanisms tested in "BoNS" will be at the heart of 4th edition" holds true, you will have the fun to convert each and every melee combatant into a maneuvre-based system applicable version....

from maritime experience, everything but Avner running amok (possible, if probably hard to stage in an intersting way ) and cargo ripping loose in the hold, smashing about would be infeasible/un-realistic ----> Deadly !.
Given the layout of the original Sea Wyvern, the only place "Thunderstrike" could be located would be up on deck unless you care to try to fit a horse through a 5'x5' hatch or down a steep stair..... which would in all likelihood make for a short crisis, as the poor equine goes swimming.....

"Crewmen swept overboard" in such conditions, where the ship itself would be hard pressed to stay afloat, and not at all maneuverable (unless you want it to immediately founder and sink - and a ship that size surviving out in the open sea in hurricane-force winds is daring/heroic assumption in the first place. ) are dead, drifting off downwind to drown, very much alone. BTW, everyone even considering working on deck will do so only tied down with (multiple) safety lines and harnesses to prevent just that from happening.

"Flying monsters landing on deck" ? Compare people being swept overboard..... anything landing on the ship, and not immediately fastened down will be swept or blown away into the sea almost immediately, e.g. on the next wave rolling over deck... Especially if it is a lightly build flying monster.

As for water in the hold.... if a sufficiently large amounts of water (enough to have cargo float around in the hold) enters the ship, it will simply destabilize, develop a list, run out of control and sink. At least, that is what happens in reality when a ship looses sufficient buoyancy and a stable center of gravity.

That said - this is a fantasy RPG., but your players might just react to the situation in a realistic way....

Some ideas :
Have some aquatic monster (Sea Hag ?) terrorize the crew and group sheltering belowdecks.... Perhaps it claims to have put a malignat curse on the ship and until they fulfill its demands ( some sentient sacrifice ? ), it will not lift the curse... Which may be real or not.... But the mental pressure might lead to brutal infighting among the people aboard

St. Elmo's fire : static energy plays havoc in the masttops, producing all sorts of weird auras (can't touch metal anymore or risk taking painful/lethal jolts of electricity... a bit overdone, but this is fantasy..), pronouncing doom and or evil portents ----> superstitious crew-members start doing all sort of harebrained stuff ... Or maybe some real elemental creatures ( elementites, elementals or mephits ?) play in the rigging and make the storm worse ? Driving them off could be harder than anticipated.

Ghosts from the Deep haunt the ship, calling her and the crew down to join them in their watery grave, far down below. Perhaps from a ship of the same name or some vessel the Sea Wyvern sank when she was still a pirate craft ? Fear plays havoc among everyone aboard the vessel, and panicky people open hatches and need to be stopped before flooding the ship or simply hurling themselves overboard ?. Maybe someone brought the malignant wrath of the sea-deity onto the vessel by some blasphemous or disrespectful remark or deed ? Say by killing an albatross or a porpoise ? And now the ship has to pay for it.... but does it have to be the entire ship that needs to go down to appease the deity ?

Or they see a ghostship sail by, supernaturally unaffected by the storrm. Stalking them ? Or a vision of their own fate....

For some non-fanatastic crisis, have some of the stern (rear) windows of the upperdeck cabins be smashed in and their contents (the PCs equipment ?) threatened to be swept overboard. Or have the mainsailsrip apart and the PCs heroically take to the tops to hoist another sail while being whipped around by gusts of 60 mph and more. Without a sail, and hence some propulsion, the ship will become unsteerable and founder... so, this really becomes a life and death situation

Why wait for a year running one of the best STAP/camapaigns there are for 3.5 ? And then having to re-stat, convert and adapt (changed mechanics may make some encounters run very different ) everything to 4.0 ?

your call, but I fail to see any compelling reasons

For one, Avner's uncle is (by the original adventure description ) none too enthusiastic about getting to "babysit" his nephew. No love lost seems to be the term...

Second, looking at SWW and HtbM, there is a plethora of situations where Avner might reasonably die, simply by having the PCs fuming about him, and _not_ immediately coming to his aid if he is in danger. I guess, with his prescribed antics, everybody else will have a far higher priority on their "save them" list.... He has a measly 11 HP - and the PCs don't know that either.

Anyway, there has to be someone to "rat" on the PCs, even if they murder him outright ?

And besides, what is uncle Meravanchy to say if his stupid nephew actually got himself into a duel (with dozens of witnesses - our group really took pains to save as many of the passengers and crew and escort them across the isle. Incidentally, this created a hard core of supporters for them later on in Farshore by doing so, too ) which was more than he could swallow ?

Avner could have refused or chickened out - or leave the women alone in the first place... we are talking the guy trying to "purchase" a fiancee from the island of Renkrue here....

Avner did not make it all that far... Heavy womanizing and a tightly run ship don't mix all that well, and the captain ( a warblade) told Avner in no uncertain terms about the possible and mandatory punishments - and hence his expected conduct... He may even have slighted Avner's honour and manhood some.... Avner "blew" up, picked some choice words ( There was a nubile female beguiler suggesting to him that his manhood and self-respect"required as much" - this certainly did not help =) )

.... and was asked out by the captain for "grass before breakfast"... as an honourable way to resolve the matter, instead of being treated as a common mutineer..... something Avner could not very well decline and keep his honour.

Too bad that the warblade overestimated (?) his capabilities and showed Avner the interesting effects and superior technique involved in an "Insightful Strike" - which instantly dropped Meravanchy junior to -12 HP with first blood spilled.

Certainly was fun for the players...

a way to deal Nulonga is to put soul bind on Nulonga before he dies so it keeps Nulonga's soul in his body.

the question is not how to deal with him ( I would be slightly suspicious if my players actually carried the appropriate spell around to "deal "w with him but rather whatwill happen if he gets struck by their most common tactics =)

he will really make the question relevant whether if one gets hit with enervation, does the "life force" get affected (---> does he take the negative levels along ?) or does just the body get weakened ? Or a touch of idiocy (always a cheap favourite against caster hereabouts )

Gotta play him pretty careful too, lest he leaves a body too early (say if getting stunned, and thereafter possibly being unable to act and be slain along with the host, which means one can drive him out of a body with a simple stun... ) or too late.... getting trapped in a stun or other "no actions" effect.....

I also wonder what would happen if he gets hit with a "magic jar".... if he phases out his lifeforce, will he leave behind a dead body, unable to be occupied, that way making a spell feasible the second before suddenly infeasible ? Or does his lifeforce get trapped ? Hmmmm, interesting conundrum....

Also, does he become undead if inhabiting an undead body ? Heaven fend, but I really foresee some interesting rule-twisting necessary for him *wicked*

Immediate actions.... sometime they are really bothersome to adjucate...

But I somehow feel he is more like a recurring and gross nuisance than a major opponent, his HP tend just to be too low...

Did anyone have pcs who did this or do it themselves? I was reading the Dragon article on it and thinking Hmmmmm especially based on comments I got in my mounts thread. Here's the important part--what if this has an effect on the shipwreck?

some modifications made - rearranged hatches (ventilation and stowing cargo ) , a capstan, rearranged the masts (maritime purism...), put in some cabin walls....

Oh, and got us a crow's nest.

None of this affected the shipwreck ( a reef being a reef - noone doubted for a second that the ship would be battered to pieces )- when they ran aground, they cursed, barely suvived and refloated the ship some weeks later

Later they got themselves an enchanted figurehead and a water elemental bound into the hull for propulsion and better sailing ability.... Blessing the hull to provide some damage reduction versus evil are under consideration

I wonder what will happen once they hit the outer planes ( planning to go into Limbo besides everything else....)

@jeremy

interesting take on the AoW, pretty enlightening summary of a different way of evaluating the APs. For me the entire AoW "build up" was far too much fighting, and the numerous less stellar installments overshadowed the more note-worthy ones. Personally, I did not really like any of the installments after "Spire".... "Library" and "Wyrmcrawl Fissure".... sorry, I would give those a pass any day.... And I really disliked the second visit to the "Whispering Cairn".

What makes the STAP so incredible for _me_ is the potential for great role-playing and dealing with less-than-credible allies ( I think the reunion with Harliss will be another highlight.... two of the players really want her hide for sending Drevorazh after Lavinia, but on the other hand, they need her help... to rescue Lavinia ! ), the "do as you please" parts where the players have a couple of missions which they can resolve in any order as their fancy takes them, not to forget the set-piece battles like that in ToD.... plus pirates, planar travel and succubi galore always make for great fun.

as for the OP

STAP is not your classic campaign and has hordes of rarely seen foes and other opposition (Linnorms, Koprus, a lot of "first appearance" critters from MM-II and FF.... Bullywugs !). It also takes place in environments less often visited. It also - pretty important to my mind - is far less Greyhak-centric than AoW and easily adapted to the FRs, Eberron or any homebrewn setting than AoW.
Which makes it tremendous fun to play/run, but less conventional, and players who look forward to "old favourites in new situations" may be less than happy with it.
No orcs, ogres, bugbears, trolls, hags..... few undead, hardly any golems.... not a single dragon or giant until the very final installments ! Truly fresh !

Handle it any way you like - just be aware, that they would have a very hard time to take the mounts along later, into SoS and beyond. Very hard, if not impossible to stow them on the Sea Wyvern ( they won't fit through the main hatch, which runs down straight into the common sleeping- and mess-area anyway. No hatch from there down into the hold, just a steep staircase...... (bad ship design - but who actually cares for a "working" and sensible ship except for those with a maritime penchant ?). Not to mention adequate provisions for the hungry carnivorous beasties...

And stowing them on deck will make sailing nigh impossible - the cages will get in the way of ropes, lanyards and halyards being pulled or eased, beams and yardarms getting shifted and general procedures at deck ( Our group added a capstan - a vertical winch - for realism's sake, otherwise it would be impossible to raise the anchors or the mainsail, which made it even more crowded on deck ).

Plus, there is not too much advantage or plot-breakage to be gained from mounts throughout the STAP, except perhaps for bypassing a certain humonguous crocodile.
And one might have to weigh the risk of haing one's trusty hippogriff mount killed from underneath oneself inflight by a passing vrock or wyvern.....

So basically, IMO, getting "special" mounts will be waste of time - unless your group has fun doing so, in which case, go for it.

Old Baboon Face KNOWS the PCs. He has studied them since they fought her aspect in the IoD. He should know their strengths and weaknesses by now. They have been a thorn in her side for long enough. Plus, she is smarter than any of us combined. Play her strengs and brains. She has fought and defeated all who oppose her. But do not forget that she is chaotic. That may be the PCs only saving grace.

I would disagree

First, he has other things to do and opposition to gauge for strengths and weaknesses. Ocrus, Grazzt, Frazz'ur'lub, Lolth, to name but a few obvious ones. Iggwilv, Obox-Ob Pazuzu etc. just for feeling safe. Thousands of mortals and immortals from outside the Abyss trying to foil his plans... Lot's of work to go around, even for someone multitasking with two heads.

Second, he will have tremendous gaps in his surveillance, simply because they will have passed into realms and areas where he cannot gaze or scry, has no agents or because the information is simply not existant - or do you think he has some way to peer into Orcus's abode or even realm ? Malcanteth ? Iggwilv's ? Or would you imagine Charon to be pleased to be watched by someone he obviously has hard feelings about - Charon who would actually decline become "prince of demons" because it would be a demotion ? Yeah I imagine he would tread carefully around some of his rivals' claims
Plus, the rules of the game apply to Big-D as well - scry on someone you have a connection to, or a known location (with the level 6 spell variant )... subject to "Mind Blank" etc. which the chars likely have access too from level 13 onward and which they use regularly.

Careful players are the worst thing that can happen to him (if the GM plays fair ), and if he was so knowledgable about their plans, he would know that the attacks by Orcus and Gwenny are an - in the end menaningless - diversion, that the true strike will come at Wat Dagon. Doesn't look like he does, right ? No half-regiment of Mariliths guarding the place's proper, no mean ambush to take them out....

And who is he to ask about the PCs ? they likely weren't known anywhere but locally a year before, and have risen drastically in powers and ability since then. I gues sthey don#t advertise or have ballads written about each and every aspect of their life right now by fascinated bards, either...

And what "thorny" stuff have they actually done ? Defaced a minor, forgotten temple on the IoD ? Stopped production of Shadow Pearls (obviously he already has and had enough of those ) ? Defeated a coven of worshippers in Scuttlecove ( no mean feat, but I would expect something like that to happen at least every few months throught the multiverses and worlds he is active in...)... and stomped through his prison to free some ( rather unrelated to his "Grand Scheme" ) female human, Lavinia.... Freed his ex-lover too who promptly tried to escape *yawn*

You know, if he really felt them to be _the_ major threat worth of his attention and Study, he would hit them the second the "Sea Wyvern" sailed into his Layer. With something more than just his personal "last moment" presence...
Or just for the argument's sake, do you honestly think he would be surprised and wounded (as stated in the encounter outline ) by Malcanteth's betrayal of him, if he followed the PCs achievments closely - I mean, having an audience with Malcanteth twice within a few days is rather noteworthy, isn't it ?

@koboldlord
/agree

It may also bear considering that uite number of pretty devastating spells are impossible to use in the final chamber, simply because they might crunch the party as well...

then again, have it your way, but I actually wouldn't overdo it - if your group gets wiped (and I find that already highly likely with the standard "Demogorgon" variants ) because you 'upped' the BBEG some further....
well to my mind, anyone who actually makes it to the "Grand Finale", hacking through St. Kargoth, the stupid shaman and the Vanthus-the-larvae (big Kudos for _that_ one... I see my group howling with glee at that final fate of his !), they deserve a fair fight. And that includes letting him have weaknesses, so the players actually stand a chance against him. Making him impervious...

IMHO handing Demogorgon an artifact "just because" (not like he doesn't wield one already ) may just be overkill - and probably an unsatisfying end to a great STAP.
But....... go ahead

As for connections

- One year after the finale of AoW - in installment #2 there is a festival going on commemorating the vanquishing of Kyuss the year before, the "Wormfall Parade"

- Connections include some local flavour (Cauldron being 60 miles inland from the starting point of Sasserine ), a family connection ( the Major "McGuffin" NPC is a Vanderboren, Celeste (who will pop up only much later in the AP.

As for length.... about 3-4 sessions (at 5 hours) /installment around here ----> 36-48 sessions for the grand total, at our playing speed of 2-3 times a month, easily 1+ years. Unless they blow themselves up before =)

As for quality.....
To be honest, I consider the STAP far superior to the AoW ( so do most of the players I know who play(ed) both ). Obviously mileage varies. Far more foreshadowing, early placement of subtle clues (instead of the big warning sign "KYUSS IS COMING" ) and some rather nice options for diplomacy and intrigue throughout. Plus, a nice, hateable set of recurring villains (first Rowyn, later Vanthus, not to mention a love-hate relationsship with old Macanteth ).
You also get to interact in meaningful ways with a lot of movers and shakers in the multiverse (especially chaotic ones ) instead of simply hacking through them, which is considered an attraction for some...

What might cause problems is the fact that the STAP thematics change tact twice within the course of itself ( once from urban-based "Swashbuckling" to "Exploration" of a jungle island/Lost World, then to warfare and shannangians in the Abyss, let's call it "Demonbashing" ), which has some players running concepts dedicated to a specific setting grinding their teeth, when the "environment" changes.

well, I know of at least one power-combo that can (legally) deal app. 800+ damge (after save !, no SR applicable ) in one round, even to Big D. No terrible power-gaming or min-maxing involved either.
And I am pretty certain there are further one's out there.... But in all honesty - if players can pull off something like that, functioning perfectly and to maximum effect just when they need it (without any foresight and hence -planning ) "Kudos" to them for the quickest BBEG kill ever.
And that applies to almost all versions of Big-D, CR 33 or CR 23....

BUT.... We have a guy with tremendous reach, Combat Reflexes, very deadly and accurate melee attacks in a tight room (stats drain, Energy drain, Two simultaneous gaze attacks covering the area) - where he can bring everything he has to bear on the opposition. His abilities render moot most defensive magics (no illusion-effects applicable against someone with True Seeing ) and the side effects of these alone are nasty enough.
Which means - any fight against him will be extremly short, very brutal and in that way 'epic' in its conclusion. Because if a party cannot take him down very fast, he will do precisely that to them - allies, Malcanteth's spells or whatever, it just won't matter. If you hand him a single use 'time stop'.... ouch....

And actually I consider any hair-raising battle against a major player of DnD cosmology (and he is as major as they come ) epic enough to remember and cherish - even if it should last only for a few seconds.

Second big problem

Besides, IMO putting a player into a "firrst among equals" position in a group, like having a "Lavinia" character, who has all the finannces, connections and the bright future ahead, is a surefire way to kick off internal rivalry in any gaming group.

YMMV

What you might actually do is introducing a third Vanderbooren child - say a younger brother/sister. That sibling (a PC) would have all the motivation in the world to deal/act alongside her older sister and might even be a driving force, contrasting off the older, calmer and probably more relcutant sibling, but not actually being in charge due to Sasserine heritage laws. Just tread careful - the STAP is not really a feasible campaign for the upright and good (e.g. those of lawful goodish persuasion), as shown by the option that the PCs actually switch allegiance to Rowyn, and hence the younger (PC) sibling might opt to follow Vanthus' shining example and try to take all the riches for himself ?

But then again, that is nothing that you couldn't achieve by strongly playing up the romantic angle off the STAP, which is already built in, perhaps outlining it more strongly with an actual fiancee or whatever. But that would still lay much of the group-motivation into the hands of a single player (character)

More of a matter of playing him smartly and without mercy - and personally I don't expect him to go down all that low in negative levels as to being a CR 23 version.
He is pretty devastating in close up combat (which comes to bear even more in the confined quarters of the final chamber, where hardly anyone can retreat out of range and "bombard" from a distance, or stay back to heal and shield.... let him attack the cleric first ?), and simply the PCs will already be weakenend and partially depleted from the previous encounters when they arrive to face him.

As for items...... I don't think they are going to make much of a difference, unless one's campaign is already badly broken in favour of the player characters...

just my 2 cent

I foresee two big problems (besides being digested)

For one being stuck onto a flotsam ooze - which means one could easily end up underwater for a prolonged time (= drowing) if it undulates the wrong way. Of course nibbling seabird and fish, or even larger predators like barracuda and sharks might feel attracted to wounded prey helpless stuck oonto the ooze.

Second, the I do not really see the ooze digesting things "inside" it, but simply through a process of osmosis - dissolving those organic parts of its victims in immediate contact. Which means - the stuck PCs are probably being digested already ? At least partially ? Icky !

But, WHY does a mindless ooze, obviously impervious to attacks, disengange from the ship it has grabbed to swim off ? This thing is mindless, as much so as they come ( OOZE !)... Actually I would simply have it return to the "Sea Wyvern" shortly, to offer the remeianing PC (and possible onboard NPCs played by the other players )to overcome it and free their comrades.

As an afterthought, I consider the ooze as a rather spectacularly misbegotten "advanced creature" - the only ooze I have ever seen which substantially increased its resilience (natural armour) by getting bigger, also the only ooze that even had "natural armour" - I assume the designer thought of the flotsam offering some prtoection, but does that really apply when this thing gets larger ? Same goes for the unexplained but suddenly applicable "improved grab" power the ooze has developed and the automatic free attack (no roll, no nothing ) it gets when someone has been grabbed by it. Two major powerss (Improved grab + constric) gained simply through size advancement ? It also eliminates the one signficant weaknesss oozes normally have, their abyssmal AC by increasing it even, into the 20ies, which is not all that easy to beat for a group around level 5-6
The whole setup caused major complaints from our group