tussock's page

Scenario:

Our enraged Str 16 fighter wishes to bash a door down. Our Str 8 Gnome bard tries to restrain the fighter. The fighter was rolling average, however he could not defeat the DC. Everyone got a pretty good laugh out of this, as for 3 rounds straight, he could not rush his way past the gnome. Finally he gave up... probably in frustration.

I presume he was trying to overrun? Narrow corridor? There's no real hope for the Bard to get a grapple and hold the Fighter, and you can normally go around.

He should have +6 relative to the Bard at low level, so Mr. Fighter needs a 9+ (60% success). 0.4^3 = 0.064, so he was where about 15 times as likely to succeed as fail over those three rounds. It was unlucky, rather than unlikely.

At Base DC 12 you're 63 times as likely to succeed as fail. That's a big jump, and essentially means quite small advantages become overwhelming over a few rounds.

I just realised, if you want better compatibility and the new skills, you should use skill sets like Iron Heroes.

Instead of folding in Hide and Move Silently, have PCs buy equal ranks in both for 1 point. NPCs, items, modules, and everything are *much* simpler to play with, and anything Paizo and other 3rd parties continue to put out will work so much easier with both 3.75 and 3.5 publications.

I'm all for fixing how the skills work, the DCs, and the new cross-class and rank system, things like giving PCs a free rank in a craft or profession at 1st level rather than making people pay for that less-adventury stuff, more skill points per level each, or whatever.

But you know what, we don't need new names for half the tasks we're doing with skills. It makes things less compatible without need.

Example skill sets:

Acrobatics, 1 rank each in Balance, Jump, and Tumble.
Stealth: 1 rank each in Hide and Move Silently.
Perception: 1 rank each in Listen, Search, and Spot.
Linguistics: 1 rank each in Decipher Script, Forgery, and Speak Languages.
Disabling: 1 rank each in Disable Device and Open Lock.
Diplomatics: 1 rank each in Diplomacy and Gather Information.
Arcana: 1 rank each in Concentration, Knowledge(Arcana), and Spellcraft.
Divinity: 1 rank each in Concentration, Knowledge(Divine), and Heal.
Natural Lore: 1 rank each in Concentration, Knowledge(Nature), Survival, and Use Rope.
Animals: 1 rank each in Handle Animal and Ride.

Then, if you really need to change the default stat used on a skill like jump (which is a fairly good idea), do so directly.

Overlapping skills between sets are fine, as you're limited in ranks by level anyway, and you can't get any skill cheaper than 1:1 with it. Go nuts, make lots of groups.

Typical enhancement bonuses to Con missing from 1st analysis also.

My main issue with the Brb (and Mnk) points is that there's rather a lot of them, and you have to track them round-by-round every fight, every day.

I like that there's options. I like that it's easier to split up, especially at low level. I like that one can start burning serious energy when things are going poorly.

But really, 100+ points split over half a dozen options on the fly just isn't a particularly attractive way to get there.

Many of the 2 point options could be subsumed into the cost of the rage itself, reducing the basic point allocation.

If we keep the peak rage cost at 1/round, with the "2 point" options free other than the swift action use, we only need perhaps Con + level + 3 points. 7 rounds at 1st level, ~28 rounds at 20th. Some of the better options could still eat extra rounds 1 per use.
The current "4 point" options could cost 1 to activate, but free thereafter until you change, a bit like Auras or Stances. The higher costs ones would use 1 extra round per use.

Some "8 point" options might want a touch of drawback to balance them out with the "6 point" ones, or not. Maybe restrict the best options to 12+, or even 16+.

Instead of 50 points at 8th level, spending 3 per round for basic stuff we have a flat 15 rounds/day with mostly free options and some costing 1 extra.
Instead of 162 points at 20th level, spending 6 per round on basics, we have 28 rounds, with some options taking away 1. Much the same result with much less fuss.

Love the new staffs. Great stuff.

Scrolls and potions are already fairly well limited by cost, why not let those with the feats write a scroll in an hour, or boil up potions much the same, on the job after an adventuring day.
You'd still need the spells prepared, the spellbook, the component pouch, and any special expensive costs. It's fairly self-limiting.

Are wands overkill? Particularly the ubiquitous Wand of Cure Light Wounds. A similar limit to staffs would be interesting; more expensive if you grossly overuse them, cheaper if you're a bit more tight with charges.

Oh, and for both wands and staffs, those with the creation feat could be allowed to recharge them faster, perhaps.

That seems to be my main issues dealt to. Anything else?

The sunder resistance is the thing that the +5's need to make them worthwhile, and a DM who doesn't mind using Sunder with his Giants.

All weapons in 3.5 are worthless if any NPC decides to take them apart, though it's largely a nuclear option that groups avoid to keep the peace, AFAICT. Even with adamant blades you don't stand a chance.

...

As to the DR, all it does is roughly half the damage of fighters who aren't kitted up properly, and there are cheap ways to kit up if anyone wants them (even if it still costs you a little damage, the Pathfinder Fighter is good with more than one, and the unhorsed Paladin can drop in many abilities as needed).

If I want to set up a fight where one monster has DR /Coldiron+Magic, and another has DR /Adamant, then I should be allowed to have the team think about how they handle it. Just like energy resists and SR.

Well, the rules are a little untidy for odd creatures, aren't they.

All magical size changes should result in +2 per step size mod to Str if larger, or Dex if smaller, and the same penalty to the other.
+3 sizes from magic? +6 Str, -6 Dex.
Make it a condition or something for reference. Embiggened.

If the Beast Shape size is Medium or larger, they gain a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength. Small or smaller gains a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity.
Magical beasts are +2 enhancement to Str and Dex if small or smaller, +4 to Str if medium or larger.

FotD and Giant Form are basically +4 enhancement to Str and Con, plus Embiggened.

FotD III is a +6 enhancement to Str and Con, plus Embiggened.

The natural armour bonus is a replacement, so doesn't need any special change. Though it could be made similarly a +-2 size bonus to natural armour per Embiggened, and a flat enhancement when it's supposed to be better than that.

...

As a side note, beautiful changes to polymorph. Thank you for putting my house rules in print. 8)

Your comparisons are a bit weak up top.

Greatsword should have Improved Crit and at least +2d6 from weapon specials by that level.

With that, Backswing with the greatsword is doing more damage per round than the Devastating Blow with the scythe. Get into things like Sneak Attack bonuses and it's far more in Backswing's favour. Use a Smite and Devastating Blow comes out on top. Get an extra attack from Haste or the Brb rage thing and Backswing rules again.

Then, you know, there's other options better for other situations.

It wouldn't hurt that much to have DB be a full attack, as it is pretty good when you optimise for it with huge flat bonuses on a scythe against moderately high AC opponents. Still, I reckon your Barbarian probably has better options at 11th than running about with a Scythe.

As a fair sort of powergamer, I can say that this has taken me from a two kills with a standard action to two kills with a full-round action at low level, and much less useful at high level. Clearly less powerful.

More useful against a pair of Giants (or other great mount of HP), but not much more so than your iterative attacks at the level you're facing pairs of Giants, and not as good as Backswing for that at any rate.

I wonder, does anyone here realise the original intent of dice for hit points was that they'd be rerolled for every trip to the dungeon?

Weird, huh. Gygax didn't word it very clearly, so very few people played it that way. Within a coupe of years, the rule everyone was using (keep your total, and add a single new dice each level) had become the official one.

As it stands though, with very few people allowing low rolls, there doesn't seem to be much point in rolling at all. Seems more like a game of rolling for the good without risking the bad, may as well just give everyone the good, as much as they'd miss the rolling.

4, 5, 6, and 7 hp/level, plus Con mod, plus some at 1st level.

Melee specialists are really supposed to have a backup missile weapon. Some light thrown weapons would be good enough there, as would a reach weapon. Or just sit your melee specialist on someone's shoulders using the mounted combat rules.

If nothing else, you can usually pick up a rock and throw it for 1d3+Str.

Oh, and technically you could account for each character's height. A typical human with a 4' blade can tip 9' without any jump at all. Might be better as a 2' high jump to attack. Dwarves and small creatures would have a harder time, they'd need a 4' or 5' jump. If your combat looks like dragging out a bit, little details like that can sometimes help.

As to your main point: Dex for jumping is fairly realistic. Muscles are heavier than they are strong, and weight counts against you a lot. Olympic high-jumpers are not well muscled people.

Are you talking about the Alpha with this? Because

Playing Music while the ogre hits you
Picking a lock on a ship in a hurricane
Casting a spell while entangles.
Chanting an epic poem while being pelted by an ice storm.

Are all examples of 3.x concentration checks, not penalties, not will saves.

More just throwing ideas in the ring. Those all could be Will saves, with DC's a little more static, or completely static to be easy to remember.

Will DC 15 to cast on the defensive. Will DC 20 when damaged, or in a grapple. +4 to will saves when defensive or grappled with Combat Casting. It takes a long time to get +13 saves, much longer to +18. All the classes have good Will saves, even if the Int/Cha casters do miss out a little.

Seeing as how Concentration (or Spellcraft, now) is almost always taken by those who might use it, does the game need the skill point tax?

How about balance and tumble being their own skill under acrobatics, and jump and climb being their own (STR based) skill. It makes more sense. The height and distance you jump has NOTHING to do with how agile you are, it has everything to do with how strong you are.

Olympic long jumpers are fast, and Olympic high jumpers are lithe and tall. Triple-jumpers are a little of both. I think those are well represented in DnD by high Dex and often mediocre Str.

Weightlifters and heavyweight boxers, or, for that matter, Olympic decathletes, (all well modeled with high Str) can't jump very well at all, compared to the ones that are really good at it. Yes, they can jump well compared to a couch potato, but that's more their moderately good Dex compared to the same.

Ol' one-eye would not be happy with this development. But, as you don't have a comically racist Orcs4eva deity to get annoyed with them in Golarian, Druid will do.

I like the Escape artist part in that it allows skill to overcome brute force. That's a positive part of DnD to me. They're already suffering -4 Dex from being grappled, for those who didn't know.

Some critique of the rule as is in Alpha 2.

Overall, a little wordy perhaps. You should be able to fit the effects into something more like the size of Bull Rush or Overrun, with no special sub-options that need worked through.

Some tweaks I'd make, after a day or two's tinkering.

Skills section p36

Climb: You can climb an unwilling creature two or more sizes larger using this skill at +5 against 15+CMB (see p60). DC 15 + your Climb skill for them to Escape, causing you to fall.

Escape Artist: You can make any Escape checks in combat using your Escape Artist skill at +5, in place of your CMB (see p60).

Ride: You can mount an unwilling creature one or more sizes larger using this skill against 15+CMB (see p60), gaining +5 if the target has a saddle or bridle. DC 15 + your Ride skill for them to Escape, causing you to fall.

Equipment section

Rope: If you tie a Helpless or Pinned target as a full round action, they become Pinned indefinitely. The escape DC is 15 + your CMB, and they take -5 to Escape. You may tie a grappled target with a CMB check at -10.

Weapons section

Net: This ranged weapon has Improved Grab against creatures up to it's size, dealing no damage. You must finish your turn adjacent to the target to add the Grappled condition to you and your target, otherwise you release the net's ropes and leave the target Entangled.

CMB section. p60-63

ESCAPE
As a standard action you can break free of any hindrances. Make one check and compare it to all target numbers for any conditions you wish to escape. You may remove the Entangled, Grappled, and Pinned conditions, and throw off any unwanted Riders or Climbers.
You may use the Escape Artist skill at +5 in place of your CMB.
You automatically Escape without an action if all hindering creatures are willing to allow it or are disabled.

GRAPPLE
As a standard action, with two free hands (or one hand at -5) or a weapon with Improved Grab, you can grapple a foe in reach. You gain +5 to this check against an adjacent target with the grappled condition. Your target gains an AoO against you if not already grappled, unless you have improved grapple or Improved Grab.
If successful, you deal damage as an unarmed strike (or by weapon for Improved Grab). If your target is then adjacent (you may move them to an empty adjacent space if they're not) both you and the target gain the Grappled condition. If you succeeded by 5 your target then also gains the Pinned condition for one round. If you have a Bite attack you can then make one at full BAB, if you have Rake you then gain those attacks, and if you have Constrict you then deal extra damage.
Once you start a grapple, it lasts until your opponent escapes, is disabled, or you both wish it to end.

NB: The reason I'd use an automatically maintained grapple is to cut back the extra detail. You can Trip, Bull Rush, Disarm, attack with a small weapon, punch and kick, claw and bite, or whatever without requiring extra detail in the section, as the condition neatly restricts your actions to the appropriate set. Escaping may need to be made easier as a result.

SNATCH
You pick up an opponent and carry them against their will. Make a Grapple at a -10 penalty. If you can support the weight of your target, you do not gain the grappled condition, though your target does as long as you use your hands or improved grab weapon to hold them. The target gains a +10 bonus to Escape checks while held this way.

SWALLOW WHOLE
Creatures with this ability may Snatch an opponent three sizes smaller with their mouth. If they get a pinned result, the target is swallowed instead, taking automatic damage each round. A swallowed target gets a +5 bonus to Escape (+10 for Snatch, -5 for being swallowed).

Conditions section. p121-123

ENTANGLED: -4 Dex, -2 to attack, half speed, can't run or charge, Spellcraft DC 15+spell level to cast spells.

GRAPPLED: you are Entangled, must stay adjacent to the creature or other effect that's grappling with you, and cannot use two arms other than to grapple. You may only attack or make combat maneuvers with light weapons, natural weapons, or unarmed.

PINNED: you are Entangled, Grappled, Flat Footed, and can perform no action with a physical element other than Escape.

I've modified spells like this to be a compliment to the skill system, rather than a replacement for it.

In terms of Find the Path specifically.

For Bards it allows them to use Gather Information regarding the path, but saves them from going bar crawling in the middle of a mission. If no one knows about it, or GI absolutely couldn't work, they get nothing.

Druids use Animal Empathy. If any local animal has been on the path in question, the Druid knows how to follow it. Slight issues with city rats knowing only small paths, or birds only flying, but high level Druids can handle that easily. Better rolls cover a larger nearby area for the animals. The druid knows what kind of animals have safely traversed the path, which is useful for avoiding hazards.

For Clerics it's Knowledge(Religion). They can usually only find their way to the nearest place of worship, holy item, or friendly worshiper. Higher rolls give them options about what to go for, only very strong sources at DC 15, but any source at all can be found and chosen from at DC 40.

Finding the lost city? Easy for a nearby Druid if the local animals know of it, but he'd find it them anyway. Not easy for Bards and Clerics.

Something that lets me do unarmed strike damage as part of the grapple (BTW, it doesn't say you need a free hand or similar). Same for an unarmed trip. Unless perhaps you're saving both for Monk class tricks, which might be OK too.

Perhaps something that lets you trip after a successful attack with a tripping weapon, standard action at BAB +6. Tripping weapons being otherwise fairly sub-par.

Some of the monster feats, like Wingover.

Things like skill tricks, if you're not otherwise implementing them; wuxia jumping strikes, climbing the big guys, using distracting banter, and so on.

Allow Bardsong + attack as a standard action, or just make it the norm for the class, with penalties that a combat feat removes.

Allow Spell + single attack as a full-round action, with extensive prerequisites for multiclass Ftr/Wiz types (Clr and Drd mostly far too good as is, pure Wiz not really wanting to attack anyway).

Multiple attacks on charges, spring attacks, and with a standard action, at the appropriate BAB or one step later. Probably only against separate targets using thematically appropriate weapons.
Possibly something like two-weapon spring attack. Or just improved spring attack that allows you to use any standard action combat feats as the attack. Ditto for focused chargers.

Something for defensive combatants, like a single AoO on the first attacker who misses, specifically as a trip, disarm, or similar by feat.

And as an aside, a fantastic new discovery just now is that firefox saves this editing box full of text as I go, and it reappears as if by magic after a powercut. Go Ext3, go firefox.

Yes, we DMs are not a computer programs, enough with the exactness.

Anyhoo, allow me to have a stab at rewriting the cover rules given, without the lines and corners.

----
Adjacent: ignoring other creatures, if you can't see all of their space from all of your space the opponent gains light cover.

At range: if you can't see all of their space from any point of your space the opponent gains cover bonuses as follows.
If you can still see most of their space they gain light cover, half or less gives medium cover, and if you can only see one corner or an edge they gain heavy cover. Low obstacles or creatures two or three sizes smaller count as one step less of cover.

Light: +2 AC, +1 Ref.
Medium: +4 AC, +2 Ref.
Heavy: +6 AC, +3 Ref.
----

It's slightly more arbitrary, but should be pretty quick in play for much the same detail. Or just stick with +4 for any cover, which works.

As far as converting non-core base classes to Pathfinder, the new base classes all look about 1 feat per three levels better, so just give seven feat slots to each class, either 2/5/8/.../20, or wherever they look emptiest.

The stronger classes like Warlock could do with a few less, only one every five levels or so, perhaps none at all needed for things like the Bo9S classes.

Besides, someone around here will give conversion notes for the popular ones when the rules are finalised anyway.

Power creep? Go for it, 3e characters are very short on feats and skills, it's far too hard to customise them as most of the "options" are really compulsory addons for your basic tricks, like the eight feats eaten up just being a two-weapon fighter, out of seven that non-human non-Fighters get in 3e.5

Light armour; run 4*, move 30'.
Medium armour; run 3*, Move 20', or 30' with fatigue (as running).
Heavy armour; As medium, but can't run.

Makes it 30/60/120, 20/40/90, 20/40/60; but allows more heavy armoured folk to hustle about 30/60 for about a minute if they want.

I think that there is a problem with the fixed 15 as well. The problem is that it becomes almost impossible to trip people.

Not really true, assuming most of the people you should be able to trip aren't stronger than you. +2 from better BAB, +2 from better stats, +2 from a simple condition (flanking, Aid Another, slowed, whatever). +2 more for the feat.

That's +8 over, making DC 15+ a 75% success. Then your opponent is prone, giving you an AoO when they get up, stopping their movement, and giving +4 to attack them.

It doesn't work against more powerful creatures, or equals who aren't otherwise disadvantaged, but that's not really a bad thing to me.

Also, generally, love the new combat specials. Top stuff.

I've used fixed durations for a while.

1 round/level becomes 1 minute (simple combats).
1 min/level becomes 8 minutes (close strings of battles).
10 min/level becomes 1 hour (all but the obviously slow).
1 hour/level becomes 8 hours (everything connected).

The brackets are what I'm really tracking. Exact game time is abstracted out of the picture. Based on the principle that the game basically works best for me around 8th level, and convenience of hand waving.

GURPS is that way ->. Have fun with it.

Oh, and as to PA's new complexity, it's not bad.

Either the spell gives you +2/+2 (or +2/+3 with 2-handed). With PA it instead gives +0/+4 (or +0/+5 with 2-handed). Yes, that's one more number, but it's a very easy one to figure out.

Please remember in discussions that there are classes other than the Fighter who might be interested in the CE tree, and that the main reason we've seen so few Fighters with higher Int over the years is that they have had no use for it. Back in ADnD I built a lot of high-Int fighters for all the combat tricks they could buy with it.

I can see how this feat would be quite useful for characters that were designed to take advantage, particularly those with weaker BAB who get in trouble against big reach monsters, like lower level Rogues and Wizards.

As an aside, my house rule for CE has been that when fighting defensively you gain an additional bonus to AC equal to your Int mod. But then I also cap AC at level+20, so bonuses don't need accompanying penalties to stop them being over the top.

C'mon guys, Wizards get basically unlimited scrolls from 1st (and now at-will zaps like Warlocks instead of the crossbow), Clerics and Druids make capable grunts, you can buy wands in the cities to augment your endurance.

If your players enjoy spending everything on one or two fights and calling it a day, what's the problem? If you want them to keep going, give them a reason to.

If you and they really don't like how 3e plays at all, 4e's over there -> somewhere. But then, I like the way it works out now, as long as I can ban the Wand of Cure Light Wounds.

It seems like +10 to save bonus for the defense and -10 to the DC for the attack bonus is pretty easy to apply on the fly for those who like it. The "players roll everything" option also works easily that way, taking some load off the DM.
(It's -11 to the DC or +11 to the save if you want 100% accuracy, but that's probably not worth it in terms of ease of use).

If the game's supposed to plug and play with unconverted 3.5 material, they really have to keep the skill/BAB/save/DC progressions intact, which they quite neatly have done thus far.

Aside from the damage option on save-or-die, you can also make things do large amounts of Con damage. 5d6 isn't out of order for death effects, allowing very high level well buffed PCs some chance of crippling injury rather than death if they miss the save.

But for the most part, you're supposed to play rock-paper-scissors with the Death Ward type defenses. Specific immunity to trump save-or-die. Same for the scrying spells.

But it depends what effect you're after. Save-or-die didn't matter much in ADnD because everyone made their saves on 2+ at high level (and low-level characters were disposable anyway). Giving some of the nastier spells a healthy DC penalty could mirror that, so it only commonly hits the mooks. Hit Die limits do similar things.

Personally, I don't like save-or-die because the game can get to be a bit fiddly if you're trying to keep all your immunities in order, but it's not the end of the world.

Those skills are supposed to automatically succeed after a few levels, think of them as class features hidden away in the skill rules.

Personally, I find it's painful enough without the AoO's to be a spellcaster caught in a corner or a Rogue who takes on flanking duty; having those effects fail is harsh, automatically losing the spell or being stopped in melee range.

I've used 1000xp per level for a while, wish just becomes 250XP (it's about 25% of your level total when you're casting it often), divide other XP costs by level similarly.

Ditto for item creation. 1 XP per spell level for scrolls, double that for potions and so on is fairly accurate. Or just throw it out, they're really limited by gp anyway, the XP only really matters when it's a bunch extra from big spells.

Grapple needs a lot more. Where's damaging someone in a grapple? Moving someone while grappled? Throwing someone?

Most of that can be mirrored by grappling one round and doing the other the next. Trip, bullrush, whatever, they just end up free again.

Something that lets you do an extra attack or combat maneuver after the grapple could work though. Damage via unarmed strike or natural weapons, moving via Bullrush, throwing via Trip, disarming via Disarm. Possibly all at some small bonus. Probably not in the first round, like the follow on feats but from improved grapple.

Add my great approval for the grapple rules. Presumably things with improved grab will be able to wail on you while grappling as before, I like that effect.

Oh, I think I should be able to avoid pinning if I want, as it carries negatives for me. And I should probably be able to return the grapple instead of breaking free, unless pinned. Too fiddly?

Seems like CMB could be the better of STR or DEX.

Agile Maneuvers feat does just that, Dex in place of Str. {edit} as someone already said, better than I.

Iterative attacks are vital to 3e's balance, you have to redo all the monsters to work with SWS/4e style single attacks.

With 3e, they keep the relatively small hit penalties for things like cover at least somewhat important for the later attacks, and give you some variation in how much damage you can lay down.
Monsters at high level can support anywhere from 15 to 45 AC and have that be meaningful. In SWS/4e they've all got to be about 14 + 1/2 level.

OTOH, you /can/ remove a lot of the extra attacks beyond the base set, or make them an option rather than an addition. It looks a bit like Pathfinder may be going there already with Cleave/Gt.Cleave at least.

As always, to resolve attacks more quickly, roll all the attacks at once with different coloured combo's of hit+damage dice. Only allow crits on the first hit too with that, which isn't a bad rule anyway.