tallforadwarf's page

My players have decided they want to play SCAP, awesome, I thought. However they want to play it on Athas, in the Dark Sun setting. I'm cool with that, but it is a lot of work to convert it over. We'll still be playing 3.x so most of the mechanics will be usable as is, what I'm really looking for is any ideas about converting some of the story elements.

E.g. What can I do for "Flood Season"?

Half-Orcs to Half-Giants and Muls, Clerics to elemental priests, that kinda thing is easy. But what about Hookface? And Jzradune (spelling?)? The demonic/angelic NPCs?

Any help would be most appreciated, from both Dark Sun and SCAP players and fans.

Many thanks and Peace,

tfad

Reposted from my blog in the hopes that I'll get what I want!

Peace,

tfad

LINK

Local Government Associations have decided there are some words that shouldn't be used in the office - I can only assume this has something to do with cutting down on "management garble" the worker-ants can't understand.

Anyway, I was surprised to see "Pathfinder" on the list, classed as "Why use at all?" I guess they don't want us discussing high-quality adventures around the water-cooler when we should be working, eh?

As "D&D" wasn't on the list, cue rumors about Hasbro having bought out the UK Government....

;p

Peace,

tfad

What are the chances of us seeing some Pathfinder action figures?

A series based on the iconics would sell, I'm sure (I know I'd buy at least two of them). The question then, I suppose, is could this be done cheaply enough to make it worth while? Making the next question, what accessories would you give them?

Thoughts?

Peace,

tfad

THIS was posted on the WotC boards a while back, hinting at a revised edition of the Tome of Horrors for Pathfinder. NG has been very quiet recently, any news or further teasing in the works?

Peace,

tfad

No love for this movie? *Cries*

;p

tfad

UPDATE

DESIGN NOTES

Here's my group's update for the core psionic classes, based on our playtest results with the Pathfinder alpha documents.

Give 'em a download and let us know what you think!

Peace,

tfad

We had a great game, using the Alpha 3 rules, over the weekend and wanted to share our playtest feedback same as before. It’s laid out slightly differently to our previous reports as the material has been ‘out there’ in it’s entirety for a while, so we are only commenting on the changes that directly effected our game, rather than including all of our player’s feedback and opinions on all of the new changes. Play is at approximately 17th Level, using the Planescape setting.

We’re all really excited about the Beta and are looking forward to getting our mitts on printed copies. The cost of printing the Alpha in a sturdy format is comparable to buying a print edition of the Beta and we’d rather that money went straight to Paizo.

We hope that you guys (the designers) get a chance to read this before the Beta goes to the printers.

Once again thanks to Paizo for letting us take part in the open playtest and for listening to their customers.

Peace,

tfad

The first half of our game involved a lot of roleplay and no die rolling apart from a few skill and Knowledge (appropriate) checks. It was a culmination of sorts of one of the on going plot threads and much fun was had by all.

The second half of our game featured some exciting combat and a couple of issues with the Alpha 3, so we’ll pick up things as the PCs are searching for a magical gate, hidden in one of the warehouses in Dis that house supplies for the Blood Wars. Some magical runes guarded the warehouse and the Paladin had the opportunity to use Break Enchantment (Alpha p34). Tactics were discussed and a decision was made. Given that the Paladin has such a low caster level, much the same as with Dispel Magic, it is not a fully useable option. It looks good on paper, but will likely be a last resort if no other means are available. It could have been used in tandem with Diviner’s Fortune (Alpha p82), from the group’s Wizard, but it was decided it was better to use Dimension Door to hop past the runes and guarantee the element of surprise.

That was exactly what happened and the two priests that were waiting inside were cut down in short order. It was another chance for use to use the CMB rules and it worked out fine. There has been a lot of discussion on the Paizo boards about the base DC being too high (Alpha p77) for CMB checks. We think they are just about right and have had the desired effect on our games. Namely, our large sized 18 strength Wizard has stopped grappling everything in sight as grappling is no longer such a one-sided death trap. Also it is so much easier to work out and adjudicate in game. Please don’t lower the CMB DC – it works fine where it is. We felt it likely that some of the complaints were from the “grapple-happy” camp (like our Wizard) who felt their builds were threatened.

The priests were never supposed to be a challenge and were there to support the main threat – a ten-headed, magically enhanced hydra. Wisely the PCs split them up, preventing cures and buffs being cast upon the Hydra, and having dealt with the priests, moved on to fight it. This would’ve been another great chance to test the CMB rules, but the PCs got their Hydra legends mixed up and resolved to stay at range, or rather, up high where the beast could not reach them.

Afraid to sever the heads for fear of more growing in their place, all of the attacks were aimed at the body. The Hydra soon worked out that it could half climb the walls to reach the hovering PCs. At this point the fight turned nasty and the Wizard died, after coming up with a great plan and then, for some reason or another, not following it (!). The rest of the party followed through on the dead Wizard’s plan and Planeshifted the Hydra. However, with the Wizard gone, destinations were limited and the open ocean on the material plane was selected.

The Hydra was capable of making his swim checks but could not keep up with the Paladin’s mount or the flying carpet and got pecked to death. This situation bought up, again, the fact that a Paladin’s mount is only summonable once per day, when a bonded spirit imbued weapon (the class’ new toy) can be used more than once (Alpha p32-33). This isn’t very fair on the mount-choosing Paladins, and the two should be usable the same number of times as it is the same thing. Please don’t forget the trusty mount in favor of the shiny new toys!

We discussed this and decided that it would not be unbalanced to let the Paladin have both abilities, but drawing both abilities from the same times-per-day pool. Holy Sword and Holy Mount are two of the classic abilities for Paladins and it’d be nice to see both of them available within a single progression of the class. A lot of the anti-summon a mount more than once arguments (here on the Paizo boards) seemed centred around the mount’s storage capacity. We would be happy to see this go, if we could make use of the summon-mount ability more than once per day.

This battle also highlighted another problem we encountered with the Alpha 3 Paladin, something we also mentioned in our other feedback. The changes to Lay on Hands are pretty awesome and, for the most part, welcome. However there is a problem with the amount healed per use (Alpha p31), an amount equal to the Paladin’s level is too small. Our Paladin has gone from being able to restore all of her HP to being able to restore 17 HP – 17 HP at 17th level is nothing. Sure the overall amount of healing per day has vastly increased, but the time she can spend on the front line has halved.

This makes a huge difference to party tactics as the Paladin now takes multiple rounds to heal themselves. This would’ve completely changed some of the previous scenarios the party has faced, reducing the frontline by 25%* - and you do not want 25% of anything in amongst the Sorcerers, the Wizard and the Psion.... It may well have a similar effect on published modules. Our simple suggestion is to allow the Paladin to use as many charges of the Lay on Hands ability as they like in a single action.

However, that fix isn’t entirely elegant (there are a lot of other abilities you can’t blow all of your charges at once with) and an increasing amount, based on level, is probably needed. Something comparable to their caster level (i.e. half class level) would be about right.

Either way this has had a massive impact on the way the Paladin class plays and can be played and requires some consideration.

After the battle, the party rested up and had the Wizard restored to life**. Plans were then put into motion, with the gate secured, to assault the demi-plane-fortress-cathedral that was on the other side of the gate. The acrobatics skill (Alpha p54-55) got a thorough testing on both sides of the screen as our tumbling Paladin took on some tumbling monks and numerous leaps and jumps were made around and over some falling/fallen masonry. The same goes for the fly skill (Alpha p58-59). We’re happy with both and neither needs any further refinement or changes.

Channel Energy (Alpha p75-76) saw use during the battle more than once. After using it in more than one game, we’re starting to get a good handle on how it works and how it plays out. It is 100 times more simple than the 3.X version, and that’s a good thing. It is also a lot more flavorfull and ‘feels’ more exciting. It’s also a lot more powerful – the raw damage is larger and the healing effect adds to the ‘bang to buck’ ratio. We like – we like a lot!

Play was halted briefly to discuss (argue?) over Power Attack (Alpha p67). We know that combat feats are changing with the Beta release, and are hoping that Power Attack gets a little something to balance it out – the advantage of wielding a weapon in both hands is much larger than the advantage of taking a shield. By quite a bit. We’re not suggesting lowering Power Attack even further, but instead building up the shield-wielder’s options.

The best solution would be to offer the shield user a new feat (as Power Attack is a feat) that offered a mechanical advantage for using it e.g. increased shield bonus to AC.

The party and their allies fled the fortress when a third party became involved in the battle, leaving with the item they came for! Taking the time to save some of the raiders who were trapped in a trapped room, they did very well but had completely expended their resources, bar a few turning, sorry channelling, attempts. I mention this because they lasted a fair bit longer than their 3.X counterparts would’ve done. The extra ‘oomph’ the core classes have been handed has, for our group at least, killed the ’15 minute adventuring day’. We know this a big issue for some groups and wanted to take the opportunity to praise where praise is due - well done!

One of the highlights of the PCs’ increased staying power has to be the abilities that can only be used once per day (ironically enough) per person. I’m talking about things like (the amazing) Heavenly Fire (Alpha p43-45), Touch of Destiny (Alpha p45) and Diviner’s Fortune (Alpha p82). These are great as the players find themselves looking for someone to share their power with who hasn’t used it yet today. Okay they’re walking around thinking about ‘touching up’ as many NPCs as possible, but this works so well. Through the action of the PCs looking to share their powers, they more naturally become the centre of whatever is going on, as a hero should be.

Examples from all of our Alpha sessions include helping the sages doing research for the PCs (an action which previously had nothing to do with the PCs, now sees them actively helping), healing the innocent caught up in battle without ‘wasting charges’ (I am in love with Heavenly Fire) and including the un-named extras fully in the scene, by giving them temporary boosts whilst feeling like you did something. In a word – awesome! Another triumph of the Pathfinder system that we’re looking forward to using for years to come.

With that, all that remained was some down time to divide up the treasure and consider their next moves. –FIN-

* We have two frontliners, Paladin and Psychic Warrior, splitting the defence between them. With the Paladin only able to spend half as long on the frontline, that’s a loss of 25%. I am not a jumbo-math dude.

** This was our first brush with the changes to bringing back the dead that Pathfinder made. Reincarnate (Alpha p115) was considered at first because it doesn’t suck anymore. Previously the spell was simply a joke spell – something you cast if you fancied a laugh and didn’t really care too much about the character. I never saw anyone take that chance with a beloved character. The new table has removed all of the ‘wacky’ rolls (e.g. mushrooms, ducks etc.) and the LA you may gain is not too bad, it was a good design choice to keep it low.
However, in the end our player went for Resurrection/Restoration (Alpha p116-117) combo. At 17th level the price is not a big factor. The new substitute for XP drain works, but once you get to high levels it doesn't mean much. Whilst this works for our group (we like to make light of death and keep on gaming, we love the Ghostwalk book but aren’t using it in our current game), it really takes the sting out of death. This will not please everyone. At lower levels the price barrier keeps death a bit more of a problem.

So I was checking out (not like that!) the new iconic and appreciating that same high level of detail as the others. Really, all these guys look cool.
I noticed that Seltyiel has something at his waist - it could be a compass, it could be a pocket watch, it could be a snuff box.... I'm not sure though. My main thinking was - "That's cool! They have pocket watches on Golarion!" Then I thought, "Hang on. Is it a watch?"

So what is it?

For those who can't see what I'm talking about, I've put a little circle around it here

Peace,

tfad

I'd not posted my thoughts on this part of the Alpha yet, despite having gone through it with a fine-toothed comb and testing it next to some of my own creations using the 3.5 MM. I was moved to post a (brief version of) my notes after reading the same section in the 4th Edition DMG - it's handled infinitely better in the Pathfinder Alpha.

Making monsters is largely an art over a science and lots of different things that you cannot anticipate in a rules system will have an effect on the end result. E.g. A fully 'optimized' party (oh lord, do I hate that phrase) will probably go through monsters a lot quicker and of a higher CR. You can't have two CRs, one for flowery thespians and one for die hard munchkins....

That said, some sort of rules system or guide to working within the main rules (i.e. 3.X) is necessary. At the very least it would need to be a part of a 'designers kit' handed to companies who publish compatible rules material. There are some 'gray areas', but this is necessary because the section is a guide and not hard and fast rules. Whilst these guides can be stuck to as immovable rules, it leads to some strange results, which is why 1) it's a guide and 2) it's at least as much an art as it is a science.

Some sections of this guide will always be arbitrary. E.g. Not all monsters that are bigger in size are going to be necessarily tougher. But at least this is an arbitrary assumption that holds true for both common experience (a 60' monkey is going to be harder to kill than 6' monkey) and the majority of monsters (a hobgoblin is a big goblin and tougher to kill).

The Pathfinder system is great, it provides ball-park set figures for the most important measures of the creature. Whilst, as a DM, I'm more interested in what the monster is doing in the game, it can't do it's job in the game if it's stat-block doesn't cover everything it needs to. Thus, the stats, as a reflection of the role the creature is to play in the coming battle with the PCs, are the most important part of the monster.
The Pathfinder monster creation guide gives a choice of values and lets the creator plot the monster on a 'bare bones graph' which gives all the essential stats e.g. AC, HP, Saves, Save DCs, along with the corresponding expected ranges. This is the clever bit because you can check you are hitting these values after you have finished your creation. After you have added special attacks, reduced some stats in favor in of others etc. you can come back to these values and see if you are right. You can even manipulate these values like the other aspects of the creature, creating a range that is easy to apply to the PCs and their ACs, HPs, Saves etc. and see how it fares immediately.

I've compared some monsters I worked out before the Alpha with a copy of that same creature, made with the Alpha guide. It's very easy to use the guide and the results complimented each other perfectly. That is to say, that the monsters that proved slightly too tough came out at higher CR and those that were easily defeated by the PCs came out at a lower DC. Although I have to admit that I only looked at Aberration, Fey, Giant and Undead and all within the 5HD-16HD range.
I should also admit that I've not looked at the monster conversion section as I've had no problem converting any 3rd edition product to the 3P rules.

Well done! I'm looking forward to using the guide again soon, when preparing for our next game session.

Peace,

tfad

If you could change one thing about Alpha 3, what would it be?

This thread was inspired by the awesome 'what you did right' thread, and aims to be a quick list for Jason and co. to look at and see what our core concerns about the Alpha are and what we hope will make the Beta.

Here are the rules:

Keep it civil - there is a lot of incendiary language popping up here and there on the boards. Not necessary - the wonderful people at Paizo are working hard to make products for us, by listening to us. Don't make me sing R.E.S.P.E.C.T at you! ;op

One change only - We'd all like to change more than one thing, no doubt. But in order to keep this thread usable, limit your feedback to the most important thing to you or your group. Too much noise drowns out the signal and this thread is a great chance to be heard.

Be brief - Don't post a full class re-working here, link to it by all means, but keep your posts brief and pointed. Again the signal/noise thingy.

Be realistic - Don't post something here that you know is never going to work, e.g. getting rid of BAB etc. Remember the goal of backwards compatibility.

Without further ado: !tfad's one change!

I'd like to see more fighting styles for the Ranger. There are way more archetypes than the two presented, at the very least we need a mounted style. I'd prefer to see a mounted style, a skirmish/ambush style and something else (2 handed?) for a nice round 5 options.

Peace,

tfad

Below is a copy of our group's complete Alpha playtest report, regarding races and classes. Obviously the new A3 stuff hasn't seen as much in game testing as the A1/A2 stuff, as it only came out yesterday. ;op Also don't ask why I've added a nose to all the smilies.

Thanks to Paizo for letting us take part in the play test and thanks to my group for redesigning their characters with each new release and giving their opinions/notes to me upon request!

Game on!

Peace,

tfad

Races

Just to start by thanking the artist responsible for the picture of the Gnome woman, we’ve had to endure all sorts of nasty mental images after one of our players took a liking to her. Thanks. ;op

Dwarf p8 Happy with the Dwarf. When I don’t DM, I play a Dwarf, always a Dwarf, so if I wasn’t happy with the changes then you’d know about it. They’ve been my favorite playable race since Golden Axe and the first supplement I bought for D&D was the old dwarven race book. The wisdom bonus makes sense and it’s nice to see some of their ‘classic’ abilities get explained by some creative re-titling (e.g. greed etc.).
Elf p9 Interesting write up for them – making them nearly eternal is a great choice and I can’t wait to see the age ranges for them. Also, as mentioned in our Alpha 2 report, we’d like to see the ‘does not need to sleep’ thing clarified. There was quite a lot of discussion on it HERE.
Gnome p9 Gnome! The re-write and new flavor for the Gnome has generated a lot of interest in our group. Previously the race struggled to ‘have a place’, they were half dwarf and half halfling. Now, they’re unique. We can’t wait to find out more about the first world too!
Half-Elf p10 Much like the gnomish re-write, the Pathfinder version has generated interest in a race, where there was none previously (interest). It’s great too, that they pop up several generations later, not having to be ‘my mom was an Elf and my dad was a soldier’ etc.
Half-Orc p10 Ditto. The Half-Orc is now an interesting and more balanced choice.
Halfling p11 Again the flavor re-write was most welcome, but the ability score adjustments are too similar to the gnomish ones. Although we’re not a group who loves Halflings, we felt that they could benefit from switching the charisma bonus to an intelligence bonus. They're supposed to smart and adaptable, which would fit, but we can’t see them gaining a charisma bonus when so many of them can’t be trusted not to wander off (often with your stuff), are enslaved etc. etc. The crunch doesn’t quite match the fluff here.
Human p11 Humans will probably remain the most popular racial choice and nothing they’ve gained causes any problems in our test games. The bonus proficiency is quite welcome, although if their class offers full martial proficiencies then they really should get Weapon Focus as a bonus feat instead. We think it’d be the final little ‘boost’ the martial classes need. Of course, this should apply to the Elven-weapon familiarity racial feature also.
Favored Class p9- (All races) It’s great the way this now works. Giving a choice means a greater variety in the culture that the races have and doubles the chance of the races getting that nice bonus HP. Choosing one for the flexible races is a nice way to tone down the crazy multiclassing also. Well done!

Classes
Barbarian p12 Very nice with the rage points p 12 and the rage powers p 14. This generated some interest in the class, which has never wowed us previously. Surprise Accuracy p 15 is awesome and just the sort of thing that jumps the class up out of the ‘martial rut’. In our playtest this power was used by some fire-giant barbarians to deadly effect. It was a good job that they had run out of rocks by the time that they spotted the PCs! We wanted to make two points about the barbarian, both repeated from our Alpha 2 playtest report as our concerns were not addressed.

There should be more rage powers to choose from. In line with Conan, as the stereotypical barbarian, there should be a power that grants a move action (as he's always pouncing like a panther on ape-beasts etc.) and one that eliminates the improvised weapon penalties (as he's always squashing things with giant rocks, fully loaded treasure chests etc.).
There should also be a way of spending more rage points than you have. Barbarians are all about exploding until their heart explodes and a way of trading HP or ability burn for extra instant-use rage points when you have spent all of your rage point pool is an absolute must. We thought a rate of about 5HP per RP was a fair one, although the rules would have to explicitly state that these rage points could not be spent on the Renewed Vigor power.

Starting Hit Points Sidebar p14 Interesting series of options here, any of which would be a good choice if you were concerned about starting h-pees. Racial and Constitution strike us as the best options, focusing more on who the character is to define that bonus. Although we’ve yet to playtest these as we’re in the middle of several on-going campaigns and we’ve never had a problem with starting HP. If we do use them, we’ll post our thoughts.
Bard p15- Okay. First off, it’s great to see the alignment restriction lifted. Bardic Knowledge p 16 is now much more useful. It lets the bard specialize in the areas they want to, without taking away from their ‘jack of all knowledge’ thing. Also, using the standard skills, the Bard might actually know something tangible now! Well done. Their spell choices p 17-18 are also nice, being a little more complete and cantrips at will is, as always, a welcome touch. As mentioned in our Alpha 1 playtest report, we’d like to have seen this go a tiny step further and give Bards prestidigitation as a free action also. The spell doesn’t ‘do’ anything specific (thus would not ‘break’ anything) and this would be great way for the Bard to do everything they do with a flourish. Trails of light following their sword, notes dancing out of their instruments, dramatic trumpets accompanying their tapestry-swinging etc. It would rock. Maidens would swoon. Need we say more? ;op
Jason, I know you’ve already answered this on the boards, but put us down for changing Deadly Performance p 20 also. It’s too powerful and needs to closer in scope, both DC and number of uses, to the Ranger’s Master Hunter ability p 38.
One final point is not so much a suggestion for the Beta, but a general observation/request for the finished product in 2009. Please get a picture of a bard that rocks hard to accompany the class. Like a big Nordic dude with a huge drum and a huge axe. Or some Half-Orc that’s totally metal with massive shoulder pads a skull codpiece and loads of hair (waxed and dyed?). All of the bard pictures we see are never as awesome as the other class pictures and certainly never look ‘showman’ enough. We want KISS not 3’ Morris dancers....
Cleric p20- Not a great deal to say here. We like the Cleric class and there haven’t been any huge changes.
Druid p22- Again, there’s not much to say here that we didn’t report in our Alpha 2 feedback. The class looks much better balanced and has generated some interest where there wasn’t any before. Unlike the Bard though, the artwork is spot on – love the grass hair, reminds me of the old Skullcap Ivy which, if it’s not restricted IP in someway, should make a return in 3P. Well done with the Druid!
Fighter p27- Bravery p 27! w00t! What a great addition – something we never considered, but addresses one of the common most complaints about the class. It would be nice to see what kind of bonus this is though, so we can figure what it stacks with and doesn’t etc. Again, the changes have got some of the group interested in a class they’ve not considered before.

The Monk p 28-31

I’ve put this section slightly separate from the other classes as the 3P Monk has divided the group. I’ve typed two lots of feedback; read them both then choose one to go with (roll a die?) or pick the most relevant comments from each. We’re aware that you can’t please everyone all of the time and, for a class that we don’t use very often, we’ve got a disproportionate amount of feedback!

Monk Feedback One or Not gone far enough with the changes
Some of our group doesn’t like the 3P Monk as the changes have not gone far enough from the 3.X Monk, which they didn’t like to begin with. The class remains too similar to other members, with 2 Monks only having their own feats to really differentiate them from each other. The bonus feats p29 are a good start but don’t really mean much in the way of difference. What is nice, are the Ki Powers p 30-31, but as all Monks gain all powers, it’s just another ‘oh you can do that too’ power. Opinion in this category divides again, with half this group wanting more Ki Powers a la the Barbarian rage powers, the other half disliking the Ki Powers as they are too similar to the Barbarian rage powers – the Monk and the Barbarian need to feel different as classes. The suggestion from that camp is to replace them uses per day of their class abilities. Everyone agrees not to touch ‘per encounter’ abilities with a barge pole though. ;op

Monk Feedback Two or Done the best possible with the shoddy tools were handed
The second half of our group, including me, votes that you’ve really done the best you can with the Monk class. It was never well designed, although it always has been reasonably well balanced (we’ve seen a Monk keep up with the party a few levels ahead of them and not dominate the show when the party is a few levels behind). You can’t change too much, because that would conflict with the goal of backward compatibility, which limits you from making the type of drastic changes that you may want to. As it stands, the 3P Monk is better than the 3.X Monk, but remains a class we’re not really interested in. Again, primarily, it’s the lack of class options, with all Monks strongly resembling each other.

This is okay because we have the excellent Dragon Compendium Battle Dancer class available if we want to Kung Fu it up. ;op

However, all of our group agrees on two changes that need to made to the 3P Monk. Wholeness of Body p31 is way too steep in terms of Ki cost. Either it should heal twice as much or cost half as much. It doesn’t matter too much which way this goes, but we’d prefer to go high, i.e. heals twice as much. Secondly the Monk needs more Ki points overall p30. They are going to be burning through their points for the dodge bonus every round. They’re only getting half of what the Barbarians get and yet are going to be spending them at approximately 2/3 the rate. We vote to give them a pool of, at least, their monk level plus their wisdom modifier.
We have a few further comments based on things we’ve read on the Paizo boards. The loss of Diplomacy as a class skill is not a problem for us p28. The new cross class skill rules means it is still an option for the Monk, but it is in no way an essential part of the class. As pointed out by Gailbraithe, there is a slight ‘hiccup’ with the low-level Monk being easier to trip etc. than to hit. The following fix was suggested and we liked the look of it because it addresses one of our above concerns, fixes the hiccup and, best of all, is very simple.

Perhaps a scaling ability called "favored maneuver" similar to the Ranger's favored enemies, where a Monk receives bonuses to complete and resist specific CMB-related maneuvers over time, would work nicely. You know: "Stay clear from that one; you don't want to be caught up in his arms and legs!" Or: "She can plow through foes as if they're scarecrows."

That might add a little fighting flair to the monk and allow them to differentiate themselves from one another. That was always my concern with the class--it didn't feel like its own, but instead a Fighter with a more shallow pool of extra feats who punched and kicked instead of Power Attacking with a big weapon or tripping with a spiked chain.

I’ve put it in quotes as I can’t take the credit for this one. Well done Golbez57! If I may quote your response from further into the thread, Jason, we come to another issue that caused a hoo-har the day after the release of Alpha 3.

I think we are starting to see what I felt has been the problem with the monk all along, the fact that they cannot really gain the same kind of bonuses to their unarmed strikes as others can with their weapons without paying a ridiculous cost.

And:

What about allowing the monk to use his 'unarmed strike' damage when using 'special monk weapons'?

We’ve never seen any problems with the Monk’s ability to cause damage and have always read the rules as being able to enchant the Monk’s fist (or anyone’s fist, foot etc. if they have improved unarmed strike) as a weapon. A simple line stating that a Monk can have their hands etc. enchanted as a weapon would not be game breaker (or at least wasn’t for us) and would fix this problem. We (ages ago, in 3.0) even had a Monk with a different element on each limb (with sonic energy being enchanted last, to the forehead!). Very cool. Dealing the improved damage with enchanted monk weapons, although that could lead to all sorts of problems if shuriken can still be thrown 3 per attack, could work. Also, the monk weapons are not all that ‘Monkey’, if you know what I mean. Where are the swords, spears, butterfly knives etc. Perhaps the best solution here would be a longer list of monk weapons which could be used with Flurry of Blows, but requiring a feat to claim the extra damage (noting the shuriken problem with this).

PeteZero pointed out that the monk cannot qualify for the Improved Vital Strike feat p71. This is wrong, it’s a Monk-feat, no doubt about it. It should either be on the Monk list of bonus feats or have the prerequisites lowered so the Monk can qualify without mulitclassing.
Quivering Palm p31 is too limited in it’s use. If it remains only useable once per week then the DC should increase, but we’re in favor of increasing the number of times a Monk can do it to once per day but only able to effect a number of creatures equal to his wisdom (or charisma) modifier. So he could set up several deaths within a government, coinciding them to all die at the same, vital moment. That’d be really cool.
Finally, Perfect Self 31 also needs a re-think. At that level, most everything the Monk faces will bite straight through his DR with magic. 5/- would be much more welcome and more of a reward for sticking with Monk. Although it wouldn’t break the game to go a step or two further as suggested by Quijenoth.

my mind leans towards more definitive immunities, perhaps immunity to critical hits, does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity while moving, cannot be flanked or the like.

Paladin p31- Ah! Our group’s favorite class! In case anyone wants to check our long (positive) rant about Paladins made after we playtested the Alpha 2 Paladin, the link is HERE. We certainly weren’t expecting such a huge change in Alpha 3. As it turns out, it’s a pleasant surprise!

Alignment Requirement & Detect Evil at Will p31 These were a real deal breaker for us and would’ve been very upset if these had gone from our favorite class. It’s great to see they’re still there. We had to post a thank you for this as, with some other drastic changes to the class being made, they could’ve gone and (just to be clear, I’ll use bold) we’re glad they’ve not been changed.
Lay on Hands & Additional uses for p31- Nice. Sort of. The overall healing works out to be a little more, but in smaller chunks until level 18. This does mean that (one of) our Paladin is somewhat hosed for being a front liner, currently at level 17. She’s used to using Lay on Hands whilst fighting away and is capable of filling her HP back up in one go. However, at 17 level, 17 extra HP is not enough to keep her in the fight and most nasty monsters are going to be dealing a lot more damage than this per strike. The change has halved the amount of time she can spend on the front line – not a good thing. The suggested fix (from our player) is to allow you to use up multiple uses of the ability in a single action. The other uses are quite nice, but don’t balance this drop in ability – channel positive energy is likely to heal more per go than Lay- currently.
Charisma Spell casting p32 Big surprise! But a pleasant one – it makes sense and more closely balances the class along side the Ranger. Good move. It could be interesting here, to add spontaneous cure casting so that the other Paladin spells actually see some regular use. It’d not break the class as their spell list is too limited for this to have a massive in-game impact, but it would ensure that some of those spells become a little more frequently used whilst freeing up some options, in the heat of battle, for the Paladin.
Divine Bond p 32-33 Let me just quote myself, from our Alpha 2 report.

[...] it is important that if the chosen weapon can be used more than once a day then the Paladin's mount can also be summoned more than once a day. Don't forget the trusty mount in favor of the new, shiny toys.

The shiny new toy that is the celestial spirit enhanced weapon got an increase in the number of uses per day, but did the ever-loyal, trusty old mount, with us for numerous editions? Did it cr*p. I should’ve put money on this happening. Can we please have this ability also increase in usage. We know that by level 12, the mount is available for the whole day, but there will be times when you will want to, no scratch that, need to summon it more than once per day. If this is not going to happen for whatever reason, please can we find out why the ability is only usable once per day?

Also, regarding the shiny new weapon, again repeated from our Alpha 2 report.

[...] for ease of reference the rules need a table with the weapon properties and their equivalent enhancement bonus a la the Soul Knife class in the XPH. We do not want to have to flip through pages of the DMG to get this info, it should be there with the other class information.

Ranger p35- Ooh! When I’m not DM, I always play a Dwarf and have just recently (i.e. my last character) discovered the joy that is the Ranger class. I like the changes and am quite happy with it as is, although I do have a suggestion.

Combat Style p 36-37 I like that the shield has made it’s way into the 2 weapon list (as that’s where my Dwarf went with it) but Paizo has a great chance with the Ranger, they need more than 2 combat styles. There’s no reason not to add more options and it would certainly be a smaller change than some we’ve seen. With a companion and the appropriate animal/ride skills, they should, at the very least, have a mounted option too. It’s an often forgotten Ranger archetype, the man alone against the wilderness with his trusty beast (okay, that sounds, wrong). Drinking the blood from your horse, sharing water with your camel etc. A skirmish style option would also be welcome a la Robin Hood and his Merry Men, with the feats following the mobility/spring attack path. It certainly would not harm back compatibility. I was surprised that this was not in there....
Favored Terrain & Evasion p37 Awesome! Well done!
Quarry & Improved Quarry p38 Again, awesome! Although how much cooler would it be to mark your quarry from the back of your animal companion, with a butt load of mounted combat feats? /not so subtle hint
Rogue p38- Again, there have been no major changes and the class remains only a peripheral choice in our group. Every thing looks okay and our play testing didn’t uncover any mechanical problems.
Sorcerer p41- Again a real favorite with our group and the only serious contender for the Paladin’s ‘most used class’ crown. There have been no major changes, but we had a little feedback on some of the minor changes made.
Class Skills p41 Still no Diplomacy? *sigh* I guess that you guys are not going to budge on that one. Still, at least you can gain it with the infernal bloodline p47 and the cross class skill restrictions are a lot less severe. Can we call it a moral victory? ;op
Eschew Materials p42 He11 Yeah! It’s about time someone got this right! Thank you so much for this!
Bloodlines p42- We like the changes, adding the skill and extra spells is a nice addition and brings the class ability more in line with the excellent bloodline feats that you wonderful people filled the Dragon Compendium with. This really is what we were expecting from the start and are very happy with this change. And thank you for the shout out on page 42. ;op
Wizard p48- Much like the Cleric, nothing new to say here. It’s great, well done!

As a final point, originally suggested by KaeYoss, there really needs to be feats that grant extra uses of the new class features Paizo has added e.g. feat for extra rage points, Ki Points, Lay on Hands etc. This could also be extended to include feats with additional uses for said points e.g. extra rage power feat etc. This is the best way to bring all the new features fully into the system and give us, the players, more chance to play with all of the wonderful new toys you provided.

My group and I had a chance to play with some of the goodies from Alpha 2 over the weekend. Although we didn't get as much gaming done as we would've liked, our Paladin player got very sick, we did have some comments and interesting discussions on Alpha 2. I apologize if any of these comments are repeated from our Alpha 1 playtest report, or elsewhere on the boards.

tfad

***

Elven Immunities (p.5): It occurred to me that I'd not be sure, as DM, how to handle something like sleeping pollen etc. against an Elf. The immunities paragraph explicitly states magic sleep effects, but it also follows that as Elves don't sleep, they should be immune to all sleep effects. In AD&D, we had the awesome explanation in the 'Complete Book of Elves' about how it works and what the Elves do instead of sleeping. Is this the same for Golarion Elves? A tighter explanation paragraph would solve this.

Barbarian (p.8-11): Our group is not usually interested in Barbarians, but the addition of the 'rage points' mechanic generated genuine interest and excitement for the class. It's a great way to open the class up and expand what it can do. We have to respectfully disagree with those on the boards who "don't want to worry about managing points and just want to hit things" and "it's now no longer a class for introducing newbies to the game". Rage points are no more complicated that HP, GP, (P)PP, spell slots etc. and no class should be dumbed down to the point that it is relegated to newbie status. How would the hard-core cleric players feel if their class was the one dumbed down? There are plenty of ways to introduce new players to the game.
Regarding the rage powers, we had a little feedback. Namely there should be more powers to choose from. In line with Conan, as the stereotypical barbarian, there should be a power that grants a move action (as he's always pouncing like a panther on ape-beasts etc.) and one that eliminates the improvised weapon penalties (as he's always squashing things with giant rocks, fully loaded treasure chests etc.).
There should also be a way of spending more rage points than you have. Barbarians are all about exploding until their heart explodes and a way of trading HP or ability burn for extra instant-use rage points when you have spent all of your rage point pool is an absolute must. We thought a rate of about 5HP per RP was a fair one, although the rules would have to explicitly state that these rage points could not be spent on the Renewed Vigor power. The alignment change was also nice.
In a word - awesome! We can see using barbarians for more than just a playtest, the new mechanics are great and have added interest where there wasn't any before.

Druid (p.14-18) and the new Polymorph stuff (p.81-): Again, we're not a group who uses Druids on a regular basis, but the rules changes generated some interest. Druids were a little overpowered in 3.5 and no one in our group really wanted to play as one because they were never sure exactly what they could polymorph into and just looking at the MM for different forms is kinda intimidating! Like Astral Construct, the polymorphing stuff is now much simpler and easier to balance (although as noted elsewhere on these boards, the spells do all assume that the caster is medium size). We liked this approach and thought is was an elegant solution to an ongoing problem. The slightly more sensible weapon proficiencies and the improved animal companion, including the option to not take one and rely on the Animal Friendship style spells to gain a domain, were also well received. I, personally, was the most impressed and, when I do finally get a chance to play rather than DM, I will be giving the druid a go.

Paladin (p.19-23): Now we're discussing our group's (probably) favorite class! We all like the Paladin as they are quintessential heroes. Anyone who was at Dragonmeet 2000 in London may remember one of our players - he was the Chinese guy shouting that Paladins need to be comparable in virtue to Optimus Prime! That's how strongly our group likes Paladins. So what did we make of the changes after having played with them?
Alignment (p.19) and Code of Conduct (p.22): We were very relived by these bits. As a group we've never bought into the whole 'Paladin of (X)' cr*p and feel very strongly against it. Paladins are Lawful Good and a champion of any other alignment (or bizarre cause) are exactly that, not Paladins but 'Champions of (X)'. Thank you for keeping this the way (we feel) it should be. It was also great to see a Code of Conduct that makes sense and is short and to the point. The more words and stipulations you cram into the CoC (!) for a Paladin, the easier it is for decidedly non-Lawful Good DMs to unfairly screw around with your character and the harder it is for the player to come up with their own unique Code of Conduct that adheres to the game rules. This is something we've loved doing for years and is a great part of the Paladin. Thank you.
Detect Evil (p.19): We are aware that a lot of D&D DMs hate this ability with a vengeance, claiming it ruins their plots as the Paladin strides in then Scan/Smites the BBEG. We were a little nervous this ability was going to disappear, but were very glad it's still there. The above problem is with how the game is run and the pillar of virtue and good that is the Paladin needs to have this ability.
Smite Evil (p.19-20): We saw quite a lot of talk about 'more smites please' online, but we think that the class now has enough. If every attack can be a smite then it ceases to become special. With a high BAB and a great weapon selection, the Paladin is a great fighter. Please don't make any drastic changes to smite.
Aura of (X) (p.20-): The new auras are nice. They add to the role of the Paladin as sort of central figure, holding everyone together, whilst protecting themselves from the things we feel a Paladin should be protected from. Any of the classic heroes from old movies or the 80s cartoon action hour that could be Paladins, have at some point all shrugged off some sort of mind control whilst yelling something like "I'll never join your evil scheme! Never!" ;) Yeah, we liked these as well balanced extras to a class that badly needed some class features.
Divine Bond (p.20-21): We all like the Paladin's mount and have had some strange mounts including a sea snake and a dragon. However it was nice to see a new option that will probably see an awful lot of use. The argument of a mount not being useful in the dungeon is as old as the class itself and we thought a lot of players will take this ability and it reminds us of the AD&D holy sword quests.
However, for ease of reference the rules need a table with the weapon properties and their equivalent enhancement bonus a la the Soul Knife class in the XPH. We do not want to have to flip through pages of the DMG to get this info, it should be there with the other class information.
We know that there was a lot of discussion on the boards about making this ability usable more than once per day. Either way our group okay with this, but it is important that if the chosen weapon can be used more than once a day then the Paladin's mount can also be summoned more than once a day. Don't forget the trusty mount in favor of the new, shiny toys.
Remove Disease (p.21): now works. It's much easier to imagine Paladins being sent or called to areas of plague as they can now do something about it. Logistically, when this ability was per week, the Paladin was peeing into the wind when it came to fighting disease. Great fix.
Holy Champion (p.22): Great crown for the class and brilliant reward for sticking with it! We loved this - another awesome, well done!

Sorcerer (p.26-32): If there's a class we love as much or more than the Paladin, it's the Sorcerer, over 50% of our group plays Sorcerers on a regular (i.e. every character) basis. We know this class, it's strengths and weaknesses, very well. We knew that they would get the better HD and the cantrips at will, but what did we make of the changes?
Class skills (p.26): When will Sorcerers get Diplomacy as a class skill?!?! The class suffers from not having enough class skills based on their primary attribute and the descriptions of the sorcerer (and the mechanics of having the highest charisma in the group) always put it as a central role. At the very least they need to have the option of switching Intimidate for Diplomacy, but seriously, they need both as class skills. Why can't you play a diplomatic sorcerer?!?! Grr! ;P This is real annoyance for our group and we'd like to see Diplomacy on that skill list. If it's not going on the list then can we have an explanation as to why? We'd like to hear the rationale behind not adding it as it makes so much sense to add it. You've got to fix the big things before addressing everything else.
Bloodlines (p.26-32): In a word - awesome! These abilities were enough to get our regular Wizard player to ask if he could switch from Wiz. to Sorc.! The abilities are nice and the bonus feats are good too. Although, much like the rant about Diplomacy above, we were expecting them to get Eschew Materials as a bonus feat. It makes sense and fits with the description of the class. Unless Sorcerer's are going to get a flavor re-write, which we don't want, then they need Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.
Obviously we didn't get a chance to test all the bloodlines, but the testing we did do left us happy with the results. Although from reading various threads on these boards, we understand that the bloodlines may get a bit of a re-write as not everyone was as happy as with them as we were. We did have one other comment though:
One of Us (p.32): This makes no sense at all. Why would people still love a rotting Sorcerer, even with a huge Charisma? Wouldn't your average villager run in fear? How is rotting a good reward for sticking with Sorcerer all the way up to level 20? It's a great mechanical bonus but the description of the power is lazy and nonsensical. Please change this for the final release, otherwise we predict an entire generation of Sorcerers who'll retire at level 19, or take a level of (X) just to ensure they don't start rotting. It's hardly a good thing, is it? ;)

Skills (p.36-): YES! Thank you for putting ranks back in! The new system exceeded our expectations and is a better system than the original 3.X. There was quite a lot of discussion about whether this was enough on these boards, but we were largely happy with the result. All of our players were happy with their new skill lists and, as a group with a love of cross-class skills, everyone was able to afford everything they wanted skill-wise. The +3 bonus to class skills is great and offers a real incentive to pick up all/most of your class skills, at least at one rank. This is important as the only incentive to choose class over cross-class in 3.X was the horrible 2 points per rank restriction. Also, there should be a different version of the Skill Focus feat that offers an increased class skill bonus. Perhaps increasing the bonus from +3, to +5, with the prerequisite being a number of ranks in a number of different class skills. With the new freedoms opened up, it'd be great to see some sort of further incentive to stick with the class skills.
We had two points to discuss about skills.
Extra Skill Points at every other level: I've championed this cause here. In summary, characters should be awarded an additional 2 points at every other level, on the levels when they don't gain feats. This has two benefits, being uniformity (something that 3P is moving towards and the goal of a tidy system should be on every RPG design list) and extra skill points without breaking the basic assumptions of the skill system. There's quite a lot of info and analysis of the math behind this as opposed to other systems in the above link.
Bring back the Scry skill: Please bring back Scry as a skill. It works so much better than the will saves in 3.5 and 3P has already taken a step in the direction of magical skills with the Fly skill. It really, really needs to be in there and makes a lot of sense. We understand this is a minority vote, but it's really important to us, as a gaming group, and 3P is the first and only platform we have to shout about this. We've continued to use Scry since it was dropped in 3.5 and never had any compatibility issues. If any of the designers want a more detailed look at this, we'd be more than happy to help in any way we can. :)
Swim (p.38): Thank you for returning Swim to being a Str. skill.

Feats! Not too much to say here, other than:
Combat Expertise (p.50): Pasted from our previous report, linked to above Not really worth taking now as a feat. This is a real shame as it was a group favorite for all classes from level 3 and up. We understand that it needs to be reworked to fit in with the new (and improved) Power Attack rules, but now it is pants. It would work better if it was the same as 'two handed power attack' all the time and offered twice your intelligence bonus to AC for one times the penalty.
Selective Channeling (p.51): Thank you! Just what we asked for!
Turn Elemental/Outsider (p.52): Ditto! Thank you again!

Cover (p.58-59): Again, this is a needless change that is too difficult to work out if you're not using figures. There was nothing wrong or broken with the 3.X cover rules and if it isn't broken, don't fix it!
Grapple (p.61-62): Whilst the Alpha 1 grapple rules where an improvement, the Alpha 2 rules are doubly so. They eliminated the confusion and led to a great scene in our game with our grapple-prone 15th level Wizard trying to wrestle a 2HD tiefling chef with a hand full of spices! The new rules are simple and applying the grappled condition to both grapplers means it is now, as it should be, not a good idea to start wrestling foes when surrounded. Although we didn't try it, these rules will definitely make a mass-grapple of 3+ grappling characters a lot easier. And you know this will happen at some point.... ;P

There's not much to say about spells and magic, other than well done! We looked at the polymorph stuff above, but also just wanted to comment on:
Eyebite (p.87): The 3P version is better than the 3.5 version, but not as good as the 3.0 version. Good middle ground, but it did upset one of our players who loves the spell and wanted to know if there was any plans to revert to the 3.0 version. She's not hopeful though. :)
Reincarnate (p.97-98): Yes! At last a usable version of this spell! Thank you!
XP Costs (p.99): Not an essential change for us, as we didn't mind XP costs, but an interesting one. There are a lot of 3rd party materials which work on XP costs, e.g. Oathbound by Bastion Press has some nice evolutionary paths which cost XP and various books by Fantasy Flight Games which have 'schools' in them, letting you trade XP to learn different techniques in war, magic etc. Adjusting the base XP charts (as is necessary, with the 3.X ones not being in the SRD) had very little effect on the values ascribed to these other costs as 3P stuck to the same scale (i.e. 1000s of points instead of 10s etc.). However, removing XP costs from the game entirely does leave these products in a bit of a Limbo. It's the first point against back compatibility that we've seen in Pathfinder, but it is one. Whilst our group is happy to continue using or modify these costs, we felt i worth mentioning.

Staves (p.106): We like the fact that a staff is now a permanent item, we have been recharging staves in our games for years so it's nice to see it in the rules. However the actual mechanics on how to recharge your staff need looking at. We know that this has been thoroughly discussed and will be addressed with Alpha 3, so are waiting to see what happens. We did have a rules question based on the 3P set up though. As it reads, a Paladin could recharge a Wizard's Staff of Dispelling. Is this intentional? We can't see that this breaks the mechanics of the game, but if this is not intentional, then it would need addressing in the recharge rules re-write.
No XP Costs for Crafting Magic Items (p.106-): As stated above, this is not a deal breaker for us as we didn't mind XP costs. Increasing the GP costs is a great way for the DM to control magic item output, although, again we've never had a problem with the rules as they stood. As pointed out elsewhere on the boards, there needs to be a rule for starting off at higher levels, otherwise crafty PCs can double their starting wealth by making everything.
Item slots (p.109) & Body Slot Affinities (p.115): To be blunt, this is the sort of arbitrary cr*p that us Paizo fans regularly complain comes from WotC. D&D is an amazing game of imagination and not a computer game, limited by programming and graphics. As such, classics like Gauntlets of Ogre Power should be just as possible as Hats of Ogre Power, Boots of Ogre Power, Cloaks of Ogre Power and Rings of Ogre Power. The rules prevent the same type of bonus from stacking, so there is no reason not to allow magic items to function the same, no matter the slot they occupy. There are cultural considerations also, e.g. an African-inspired tribe of people may prefer strength enhancing boots, as they watch the gazelles run across the plains, leg muscles rippling - that is strength to them, being able to run so fast, leap so high etc. Using the 3P set up and this arbitrary rule, I now have to start house ruling magic items from non-generic D&D cultures. Come on Paizo! You're better than this!

Before wrapping up we also wanted to comment on this:

Monte Cook Joins the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game™ Team
Co-creator of 3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons® to act as Rules Consultant

Paizo Publishing®, LLC today announced that Monte Cook, the co-creator of 3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons and author of the 3.5 PHB and DMG as well as the Ptolus™ campaign setting and the recent Book of Experimental Might™, has joined the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game team as a Rules Consultant.

"This is going to be a lot of fun," said Monte Cook. "Pathfinder is a fresh spin on a rules system that I love and the guys at Paizo are great to work with. They produce nothing but the highest quality products."

"Monte Cook is a legend of third edition and of the Open Gaming movement," said Paizo's Publisher, Erik Mona. "He's also a great DM, and has the best mind for mechanics I've ever seen. To have one of the original third edition designers helping us with the Pathfinder RPG is like a dream come true. With Monte's involvement, I am certain that the future of the edition he helped to create will be very long and very fruitful."

"I am really excited to be working with Monte on this project," said Paizo's Lead Designer, Jason Bulmahn. "His advice has been a great help to the Pathfinder RPG. When it comes to rules design and knowledge of the 3.5 system, there is absolutely no one better."

Monte Cook will also be contributing an introduction to the final Pathfinder Roleplaying Game hardcover, scheduled for an August 2009 release.

Our group had a geekgasm at this. What a coup for Paizo! w00t!

In summary we've really enjoyed being a part of the open playtest so far and will continue to post our thoughts up until it closes for the final release. If our comments on Alpha 2 seem negative, that's only because we didn't want to type "I love you Paizo, thank you!" at least once per page of the Alpha. We loved the changes so far, except for a few of the crazies that have obviously only crept in because you guys are working so hard to give us all what we want. Keep up the good work and thank you!

Peace,

tfad & Group

Posted from the other thread:

here

Then again I plead, can we get bonus skill points at levels we don't get feats? Please? Pretty please? With sugar on top?

No need to plead. This is a fair idea and one that I have thought of. When I said that the skills system is firm. What I meant was that it will not recieve another complete redesign. Tweaking, however, is still quite possible (and probably likely).

Thank you thank you thank you! for putting skill ranks back in. It was nice to see so many changes in Alpha 2, that were discussed here on the message boards - this change is definitely the most welcome in our group (although the changes to staves also ranks highly).

Can my group put their names down for the above change also?

It was really nice to get something every level and it's the simplest way to kill 'dead levels'. A nice bonus to skills works well next to feats as they are the two building blocks for your character outside of class. There's a great synergy in a skill/feat bonus every level also.

All in all, well done to Paizo and thanks again for letting us be a part of the process!

tfad

I have loved this guy since I first saw 'im!

Now, when my Gazetteer arrives, Usaro is going to be the first thing I look up. :) Any land that gives rise to monkey-kings is a place I want to include in my game!

tfad

I've just finished reading the awesome Guide to Korvosa, loving every page. I really got on board with the Sable Company and the Guard - they seem like a lot of fun, and that's kind of strange for me as 'military' stuff is usually a turn off.

Anyhow - I have a question: Are there elite units of 'Panzer Hippogriff' riders?

I can see specially trained troops saddling up on specially trained mounts, wearing full-plate on beefed up hippogriffs in the heaviest barding. Just what the city needs if, say, a dragon comes by. That'd be cool. Of course, if there aren't any then I know I can always put them into my games, but it'd be nice to know what the official word is.

Peace,

tfad

I've split up each section so hopefully it's easy to read and for the dev's to find the bits they want. I've also marked some points with a "!" if they're something we felt was worth pointing to/suggesting. Also I've tried to acknowledge our biases and not comment on things that we didn't use unless we particularly like/disliked them. Finally there's not much in-game information, as I've tried to keep focused on reporting our experiences with the system.

Peace,

tfad

***

Books Used: Aside from the core books we also used the following books without any compatibility issues. As such, the group believes that Paizo has so far met with their goal of backwards compatibility. Expanded Psionics Handbook, Manual of the Planes, Epic Level Handbook, Stronghold Builder's Guide book (WotC), Oathbound: Domains of the Forge (Bastion Press), Portals and Planes (Fantasy Flight Games).

Races (p.4-): In a word; Awesome! Whilst changes to the core races were not strictly necessary, the results are good. The races feel more unified than they did previously and some of the weaker choices got a nice boost.
Favored Class Sidebar (p.7): This was a concern for one of our players. The complaint was that if a character gets more HP for taking a level in their favored class then the racial stereotypes are enforced a little too mechanically. The complaint also claimed that as a rule it does not make too much sense - why should an elven wizard be tougher than a dwarven one, for example. It also gives an extra boost of power to the Human, who will almost always get this bonus. It's not a game breaker, but we agreed that maybe it should be placed in the DMG portion of the Pathfinder RPG and come with some sort of explanation that the DM can work with players to create a culture and favored class for their character at the beginning of the game. Although then the reward becomes a little more than a multiclass deterrent. Perhaps this should say that the bonus is to be added after your constitution modifier has been applied to the HD roll. This way low rolls can become less crippling if they happen several level ups in a row.
! We noticed that by increasing the power of the core races, a lot of LA+1 can now be played without the adjustment. Additionally some of the less powerful LA+2 creatures can be reduced to a +1. We gave our Asherake (Oathbound) player the +1 adjustment which he was quite happy with, and leveled up as a result. We felt this was a real triumph as the Pathfinder races have increased compatibility by opening up all of those LA+1 races we didn't try (for fear of losing a caster level!).

Classes (p.8-): Including the NPCs we actually tried all of the classes presented in the Alpha, although not all of the Wizard schools. Again - brilliant. I've broken our comments down, below.
Domains (p.9, p.49-57) & Schools (p.16, p.46-49): The main thing here is that the domains and schools now have a much bigger impact on the game and the character. One extra spell per level per day is not as evocative as unique powers. No one in our group plays a non-specialist Wizard, so in many ways, we were biased towards liking these changes. However the important thing is that the changes seem balanced, certainly more balanced than 3.5 - especially for the 'weaker' schools where previously Diviners might waste higher level bonus spells on True Strike just because there was guaranteed to be no time to cast Legend Lore that day.
Orisons (p.10) & Cantrips (p.17): Yes! Does not break the game in any way and really helps keep the magic users as magic users all day. Although we didn't try it out, we felt this could be especially useful to the bard.
!Perhaps offering Bards Prestidigitation as a free action could help make them more showy and add a flourish to their actions. As the spell doesn't really do anything we didn't think it would be game breaking and would just add to the fun. Yeah - we're a bard biased group!
Starting Hit Points (p.11): We've never had a problem with starting HP in 3rd edition. If anything the problem is when you don't roll enough (below average?) at the higher levels. The favored class sidebar (mentioned above, p.7) helps with this.
Fighter (p.11): Very nice! No problems with this at all - the fighter has needed a boost for a while.
! We applied the same class ability progression as the Fighter to the Psychic Warrior. The results were balanced and we had no problem with this at all. Another victory for backwards compatibility!
Sneak Attack (p.13-14): Although our game did not actually include any sneak attacks being made, we have never had a problem with sneak attack being used against undead (shoot the brain!) and golems (get 'im in the gears!). The problem we have had has been with the feat improved feint. The rogue can beat every else in damage output with a sneak attack - that feat lets them do it all the time. It doesn't feel right when players who want to be a hand-to-hand damage dealer pick the fighter and then get outclassed by the rogue. This was a bit of a concern now that power attack (see below) has been powered down; the fighter's only chance of keeping up with an improved feinting rogue. But no problems with the changes made to sneak attack.
Rogue Talents (p.14): Very nice! 5/5! Works fine!
Wizard Hit Dice (p.15): More so than the rogue, the increase in HP for the wizard was greatly appreciated.
! For the sake of backwards compatibility (Designer Notes: Class Hit Dice, p.18), we think it would be better as a rule to increase the BAB or HD of the class, rather than reduce the other one. This was important when looking at the Expanded Psionics Handbook - increasing the BAB of the Soulknife and increasing the HD of the Wilder. We tend not to use classes outside of the core/xph set, but this change greatly helps bring these two SRD classes up to the power level of the others.
Arcane Bond (p.16): Our diviner took an arcane bond; a glass eye! We were a little unclear on the rules - "can be used once per day to cast any one spell the wizard knows". What exactly does this mean? We chatted about it and came up with two interpretations. 1) spells in spell book and 2) spells memorized. I found both answers here on the message boards, so we discussed it as a group. We decided that whilst neither choice was game breaking we went with spells memorized as it fit better "in universe". We saw the bonded object as a linked to the wizard, not a link between the wizard and their spell book. The diviner used his eye straight away (so as to gain the most options of what extra spell to cast) and cast disintegrate from behind at a Sea Hag - fun!

Skills (p.21-31): Argh! Yes and no for this one! 2/5! The compiled list is very good - well done. Rolling some skills into others makes good sense. We couldn't see Tumble on the list, but it appeared to be covered by Acrobatics.
Table 5:2 Skill Check Bonuses (p.21): We did not like this at all. Skill points are a great part of the 3rd edition system and should not be removed (insert quick acknowledgment of bias). Our complaint breaks down into two points. 1) Why change something that doesn't need changing? Yes - the alpha system works mathematically but it is really necessary to change the system? Complaints that skill points are too complicated aren't really washing with our group - we've never had a problem. Also as a DM I've never had a problem with NPC's skill points. What does the NPC need/have for background? Write that up at an appropriate level. We felt that those complaints were probably from groups who stick to the letter of the rules rather than have fun within the rules. 2) It's impossible to not be the best you possibly can be at something now. This is important for both roleplaying and mechanical reasons. The best example we can offer runs like this.

A few games ago an NPC Epic level Bard died 'off screen'. It was a moving moment for one PC (paladin) who was quite attached to him. As a result she decided to put some skill points into Perform(Story telling) to keep telling some of the stories the bard shared with her and to honor the dead by telling a few of her own. The awesome roleplaying was backed up by the mechanics as the paladin was now an apprentice level story teller. Upon leveling up, the paladin put more points into the skill and got better at it. Under the Pathfinder Alpha system this would've lost all of the impact as she suddenly became the best story teller she could've been and would not be getting any better unless the skill became a class skill.

Carrying on from this point, our group rarely keeps the same skills 'maxed out' above a certain level. Once your character can succeed at hitting most of the DCs, unless the skill is a core part of the character, we enjoy spending all of those points elsewhere. Usually on things related to the in game experiences of the character. E.g. after a crazy horse chase chariot battle, putting ranks into ride.
Also the Pathfinder system makes it impossible to play 'against type'. You cannot play a wizard with only a few ranks in knowledge skills, or a ranger who has only ever been camping once. You can with the skill point system so in this instance the Pathfinder RPG is removing options instead of giving the players more. Bad move.
! Please put some base charioteering DCs in with the Ride skill descriptions for Pathfinder RPG!
Swim Skill (p.21): Swim a DEX skill? We assumed this was a typo - it really is a STR skill (doesn't DEX do enough already?).
Deception & Diplomacy (p.23-24): We use these skills every game and you've nailed it. Awesome! Please do not change these any further for the Beta.
Fly Skill (p.24-26): Yes! We loved this skill and it is presented well. In most of our games, someone likes to play a flying race so this new skill covers some of the questions that have come up over the years. However it should be based off of either STR or DEX. This is because there are a lot of different flying races/monsters out there for the 3rd edition rules and some of them are stronger than they are dexterous. Choosing which ability to base the skill on will offer both greater backwards compatibility and more options for the PC. Think Dragon vs. Humming Bird. Plus how cool would it be if your mage found Ogre Power Gauntlets and started using them to launch himself into the air?!?!
! You've taken a step in the right direction with the Fly skill; now please, please, please bring back the 3.0 Scry skill! It made so much more sense than a will save in 3.5 and offers the same magical depth the fly skill does.
Perception (p.28): See our comments on Deception and Diplomacy above.
Spellcraft (p.29-30): It was interesting to roll concentration in with Spellcraft, and we're sure that Sorcerer's everywhere will be thanking you. However - how does this work with the Expanded Psionics Handbook? There are some nice new uses for the skill in the book and now it seems as if the skill does a little too much. Not a big problem but worth thinking about.
! Our suggestion is that the problem with the 3rd edition skill system is that there is no easy way to make cross class skills class skills. At every even level, as per the progression chart on p.9), we suggest that the character receives either 4 bonus skill points or can make a single cross class skill a class skill. This will offer more skill points to PCs (addressing the common 'not enough' complaint) and give them a chance to pick up new skills as they adventure (and address the complaint that cross class skills are not worth it).

Feats (p.32-39): We used quite a few of the new feats and had no problem with them. We were quite happy with the new power attack and the alpha 1.1 removed our main concern of all those 'must've used feat X in the previous round' rules. Most importantly we loved the new progression - a feat every other level is great!
Combat Expertise (p.32): Not really worth taking now as a feat. This is a real shame as it was a group favorite for all classes from level 3 and up. We understand that it needs to be reworked to fit in with the new (and improved) Power Attack rules, but now it is pants. It would work better if it was the same as 'two handed power attack' all the time and offered twice your intelligence bonus to AC for one times the penalty.
Deadly Aim (p.32): Awesome! The circle is now complete....
Turn Outsider (p.33): We loved the idea of this feat and have been using something similar from a 3rd party book for some time. However we decided not to use it in our Alpha play test because we couldn't figure out how the feat works with the new turning rules! RAW it reads like it would heal outsiders with the positive energy. That combined with the fact that most outsiders will make their Will saves very easily, it looks like a poor choice. Could we get some clarification on the rules?
Dazzling Display (p.36): Used it in game and it worked well! A great addition to the fighter's bonus feat list too.

Cover (p.40-41): Very tricky to work out without minis. As a group that doesn't use minis, this was tricky - especially when a ghoul was hiding 'in the 3rd dimension', hanging above a door on the opposite side. There was nothing wrong with the old cover rules, so this change was not welcomed by us. However we can see that if you were using minis that this might be a little easier. Why not include both charts/rules systems in the Pathfinder RPG?
C.M.B. (p.40-): Yes! 5/5! Please keep this in!
Grapple (p.42-43): We got the rules a bit wrong at first, probably due to horrible confusion and the knee jerk reaction to 3.x grapple checks. However the new system is solid and stops the abuse and complication the old system was prone to. Well done!
Broken Condition Sidebar (p.43): We didn't get a chance to test this but liked the look of it.
Turn Undead (p.44-45): Awesome! The system works simply and quickly, much better than the previous rules. I put undead into the adventure just to test these rules and we were all happy with the results. Also, the group had no problem with thematically filling the area with a wave of energy, and mechanically healing both allies and foes.
! I know there has been a lot of discussion about this one on the boards, healing foes in the turning area. Our group felt a feat would be most appropriate, excluding a number of foes in the area up to your WIS bonus.

Identify Spell (p.58-59): Loved and used the new version. No problem with balance and stops the PCs from having to waste XP on the spell. Also helps a PC who wants to play the 'sage' type character.

***

Big thanks to Paizo for continuing with 3.x, keeping the spirit of D&D alive and for inviting us all to take part in this open playtest!

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG

This is what I was waiting for! Take my money and first born!

;P

tfad

It's very player friendly (except for the Secrets chapter, which is for GM eyes only) and is written in the first person, much like the running dialogue you'd get from a local giving you a complete tour.

Quick questions - how much of the Korvosa book is written in this style and are other products in the line going to be similarly written?

Any clues?

Peace

tfad

Hello!

I've not posted here in an age (except one goodbye and thank you to our friends Dragon and Dungeon), as I've been off doing life things like getting married, moving and stuff.

I want to support Paizo and D&D 3rd edition and have been loving the Pathfinder stuff so far. One of the best things about capitalism is that I can vote with my wallet and would really like to do so and keep 3.x going for as long as possible. It's a great system and the best version of D&D so far. 4th Ed. may be awesome but I'm nowhere near done with 3rd yet.

The question I really want to ask is this. When is the best time to support Paizo, before or after the release of 4th edition? I want to influence the decision to keep putting stuff out for 3rd edition for as long as possible.

Living in the real world means I have a very limited budget for gaming at the moment. When I do spend it, I want it to count. If this means putting off buying future Pathfinders until after the release I will be happy to do so. Or if the support is more needed now, I will be straight down to my FLGS and next in the online store que to spend my entire 12 month gaming budget on Paizo stuff.

I (hope?) won't be in this situation forever and I can't wait to be able to spend HUGE sums of money of gaming stuff again. But setting yourself up and getting on with life can be an expensive prospect. Thank the gawds for gaming - necessary to get through the stress of it all!

Many thanks!

Hey!
I just wanted to say how much I loved this article! Woo! Although I don't have the issue to hand to properly ref. it. The art was great too. It reminded me of the Ghostwalk setting - one of the best things wizards has put out (IMHO).
Thanks to all involved!

Peace,
tfad

Hey!
I've not been around for a bit, I've been on hoilday - playing Morrowind. Yeah, I know it took a while for me to get around to it. Great game, but with poor monster design.
Anyone else a fan?

Peace,
tfad

Hey!
The 'do you allow 3rd party materials in your game' is a debate I often see raging on the net and in our FLGS. In our games everything, even official WotC stuff is peer reviewed. That is to say it's not just the GM who decides how balanced something is.
Anyway, I'd love to share, and hear, some of the worst 3rd party stuff you've read or had to ban from your games. Don't post any names though, lets not get anyone in trouble. ;) Here's two of my favourites!

A core class with full BAB which ignores all SR and TR when it casts spells.

All Drow are infertile, unless they take a feat. Improved Potency or something. ;P

Peace,
tfad

Hey!
I've really enjoyed reading the 'place your rant here' thread. Brilliant! Whilst I've not posted myself, I share a lot of those sentiments. ;P
Anyways, I thought what's needed is a thread to counter-balance that; so go nuts! Share what you *love* about roleplaying!

I love 3rd edition.

I love it when players react to NPCS.

I love it when the players win.

I love it when the characters win.

I love that I can multiclass.

I love that I don't.

I love it when players talk to me about the game outside of the game.

I love eating too much every session.

I love working out ways to surprise my players.

I love templates.

There's a lot more, but that'll do for now.
Go on - spread the love! ;)

Peace,

tfad

Hey all!
I've lurked about here for a bit but never posted - boo! I'm looking for somewhere new to hang out online and thought I'd introduce myself around here.
That and welcome you all to my group's ongoing campaign; Ghostjammer!
It's a mixture of the old Spelljammer (*mourn*) and Ghostwalk settings. And going really well. Come check us out at
Ghostjammer
Let us know what you think and say hi,

Peace,

tfad

- Oh and expect an update this weekend, including the Order of the Stick-inspired renditions of some of the characters!