lokiare's page

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In what way can a new edition of D&D be designed to allow for all play styles?

My preferred method would be to take the things that all editions have in common:

Hit Points, AC, Fighter, Wizard, Rogue, Cleric, Human, Elf, Half-Elf, Halfling, spells, d20+mods to beat a target number, experience points to level, beholders, displacer beasts, etc...etc...

Put all that into a 'core' then build off that core for specific play styles. Like having a 'classic' play style that includes save or die, mostly DM fiat, very few additional rules, etc...etc...

Then you could build the D&D you want by stacking modules on top of each other.


Does anyone know of a good forum site to discuss 5E and its relation to people that like or dislike it?

I'm having problems finding one that is active on a daily basis. Every time I find one, I start pointing out the flaws in the system in a polite non-edition warring way. I even explain how it could be fixed, but invariably every time I get some kind of ban for posting the truth.

So is there a forum somewhere that 5E is discussed on a daily basis based on its merits and not some kind of 'keep everything positive or else' broken mentality.

That mentality I mention above is what brought us 4E, then later Essentials, and the down hill slide of the game. I personally don't want to see that happen with 5E. I want 5E to be a game everyone can play, not just a few small groups of people.


what would it take to legally make a 4E clone?

I think it could be done pretty easily. Most 4E powers are some combination of damage, push, pull, slide, prone, immobilize, short range teleport, daze, stun, helpless, petrify, etc...etc...

To make a 4E clone you would have the players choose to create their powers from a list of features they can add.

Maybe a Fighter gets to add +2 to attack, +4 to damage, or push/pull 1 square at 1st level for at-will powers, prone, grab, or push/pull 2 on encounter powers, and immobilize, multiple targets, or +2 to attack or damage for the rest of the encounter to dailies to create power templates. Then at 2nd they might get more powerful stuff.

They would have a list to choose from at each level and then they could build their powers to use for that level.

Give them the ability to rebuild one power at each level. Then people can recreate their favorite class easily and legally in this new 4E clone.

Fighter features that might be added at 1st would include choices from:

At-Will
Secondary effect on adjacent enemy
Effect on a miss
Target takes Str Mod damage
+2 to one attack roll
Push target 1 square

Encounter
Secondary effect on ally
Shift 2 squares
Shift 1 square and At-will secondary effect
+1[w] damage
Prone target
Slowed and cannot shift until end of next turn

Daily
+2[w] damage
Spend a healing Surge
+2 to attack and +4 to damage against a target until end of encounter.
Half effect on miss

The idea would be that each of those would have a point value associated with it and then you would pick and choose your features by spending the points. Each level you would get X powers of each type (at-will, encounter, and Daily) that you can spend points on based on the level. So at 2nd level you would get to points for a second level power that you could spend on any utility type features to make an at-will, encounter, or daily power with. At 3rd level you would be able to make an encounter power with 3rd level features by spending 3rd level points.

Then no copyright would be violated as long as different wordings are used and the pre-built powers don't mimic any existing 4E powers. This would also cut down on power bloat as the same features could be added to later powers.

What do you think, should someone do this?


Here are my initial thoughts on the play test packet:

You pick a background, which includes a trait and 2 fields of lore +10 to lore checks in your field of lore. Looks like they kicked bounded accuracy to the curb...

One of the fields of lore is "Hobbyist" and examples include "Dragonchess" or "cormyrian drama"...interest dropping

Artisan background "pay 5gp per month to be in good standing with the irrelevant to 99% of campaigns artisan guild"
Bounty Hunter: "Skip RP and go right to the bounty board" the rest are equally as pointless.

Rolling for scores is the standard method. point buy is optional

The basic four races and classes are core, everything else is up to the DM. Hope you have a generous DM...

Barbarian
Feral Reflexes: You can act during a surprise round as long as you rage on your turn.
Barbarians don't die when they hit 0 hit points. They instead make a DC 10 con save. They can do this every time they get hit, but the DC goes up by 5 each time. So if you have a bunch of Con save feats you basically can't die or have the equivalent of 30x the hit points of everyone else
Oh at 12th you make all saves with advantage, so you just doubled your hp from the not dying part and tt 20th, you don't die at 0 with no save, but make death saves as normal and die after 6 of them.
At 17th you cause creatures hit by your attacks to be frightened (with a failed save), so they get a level 1 Wizard spell at 17th level they can cast at-will
Oh look, auto-advantage on all attacks while raging with the Hawk totem. Well you can never have disadvantage with that build...
At 10th you get regeneration 5 when raging while bloodied
Oh look at 17th advantage on death saves. The Barbarian is simply unkillable past 17th level then. Auto-win a save at 17th and drop out of a rage...

Cleric
When you are out of Cleric spells you can call upon divine intervention and get a free spell effect but you only have a % chance based on your level, so don't bother unless you are totally out of options. You can only try it once every day. In other words it will almost never be used.

Druid
Wild Shape is worthless after a few levels. You will be doing more damage with your spells and regular attacks than you will with wild shape, so it will be relegated to passive bonuses to skill checks.
At 15th level you can do the equivalent of a low level Wizard spell a couple times per day (change appearance to another humanoid form).
At 10th you get battle forms, that are worse than your normal form at that level. Again more acceptable for utility than for anything else.
At 14th and 16th level your shapes almost equal your normal shape, but without the ability to cast spells, you are much weaker than other martial types (since you basically turn into a martial character at that point). In other words not worth shape changing. Behemoth is almost worth it, maybe.

Fighter
Get 1.5 their effective hp with second wind. 2nd level you can do 2 actions once per encounter, kinda nice, but in 4E any class can do that every other encounter, so no biggie. Fighters get Defy Death which is like the Barbarian feature that keeps them from dying except its a higher DC, but it doesn't go up.
13th level they get advantage on all saves, so the above feature gets much better.
Dirty Trick is worthless unless fighting low Wisdom creatures. You have to beat their Wisdom modifier with it so your chances are really low unless they have no modifier or a low modifier.
It seems like all of the maneuvers rely on beating ability modifiers which puts their usefulness at a minimum past low level.
Awareness must be a joke. Minimum 10 on checks while standing watch? Seriously?
An improved critical range is nice, but an extra damage dice is not really that inspiring, especially as its a single die, so if you deal 2d6 with your weapon you don't roll an additional 2d6, you roll an additional 1d6. In other words, ok, but not anything really special.
Effects on critical hits are very unreliable. Even at level 20 you only have a 15% chance of a critical even with advantage it only happens 36.5% of the time, and that's only if you pick the right Fighter sub-class (path).
Overall not impressed. Feats seem to be more powerful than most of the Fighter features.

Wizard (Mage)
Since saves are just as hard to pass as ever and supposedly the monster abilities went down, this means Wizards er... Mages are even more powerful than before.
Arcane recovery is about equivalent to an extra level 1,2, and 3 spell slot. So nothing much to write home about.
You can't scribe scrolls to use until 6th level and when you do, you have to pick a spell of 3rd or lower and you can't have more than a few spells scribed total.
At 18th level you can cast one 1st and one 2nd level spell at-will.
A lot of the features for the Mage seem overpowered like 24 hour duration on charm, recovering your suggestion spell slot if they make the save. Very overpowered. At 8th they get auto charm and force attacks on others when attacked. Way overpowered. At 12th creatures don't remember being charmed, which was the only drawback to the charm spells. Another overpowered ability.
At 16th you can charm anything. "Hey Asmodeus, bud, help me out here..."
At 20th level you can make charms permanent. So you basically charm the Gods and then have them follow you around doing stuff for you. Hmm... that won't be broken will it?
The rest seem equally overpowered.
Over-channeling can be abused horribly. If you have advantage on saves or other bonuses you can potentially get 4-5 over channels before dropping to 0 hp. In other words its better than pretty much any attack.
At 16th you bypass resistances to damage spells you cast. So you are dealing max damage, extra damage from ability modifiers, and nothing can resist your damage.
At 20th you get free lightning bolt and fireball spells at their minimum level at-will. I guess they have no real plans for epic play then.

Mostly all I see is quadratic casters and linear martials. Not a game I would like to play.

What do you think?


I'm a former WotC customer. I've decided I no longer want to support their company. I do however really like 4E. I know Paizo can't make Pathfinder 4e products, but if I wanted to convert it to 4e myself which books should I buy and how much time would it take to convert?


Looking for players in our area we play every other sunday, from 6:00pm -3:00am we use miniatures and we trade off being DM with different characters. We currently have 3-4 players.


I ordered things that it said was in stock so that I would be sure and be able to get my order in a timely manner. it's been about a week since I ordered, and my order still hasn't been shipped, the status on it says ready to be shippped, I just want to know what's going on with my order? (it was for a vinyl game matt, and some wet erase markers)