Zorek

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Can your attack of opportunity trigger an attack of opportunity from your opponents?

Ex. If a goblin takes a move action to leave a threatened square and the character that threatens that square makes an unarmed attack or trip attack, do enemies around that character get attacks of opportunity against that character? What about the goblin being attacked, does it get an attack of opportunity?

I'm sure this has been answered before, but my searching started taking forever. Thanks in advance.


The Rogue archetype Poisoner has a vested interest in poisoning, however I'm having a hard time understanding how things are supposed to work and why other things work as they do.

Starting with confusion

There is a Swift Poison rogue talent in the APG that allows the Rogue to poison a weapon as a move action. At 6th level, the alchemist automatically gets the Swift Poisoning feature that allows him to do it as a swift action. Admittedly, one is 6th level and the other would occur sometime after the 3rd level. But there's no way for the rogue to upgrade this. Why must the specialist poisoner be slower in combat than the generalist in combat?

How are the costs of poisons determined?

This is very important, because all we have to work with are the "sample poison" list available in the CRB. If we want to craft a new poison, we have no way to determine costs and there doesn't seem to be a consistent pattern in the sample list (e.g. the Insanity Mist poison is just as difficult to resist as the Oil of Taggit, but seems much less powerful [in most cases], yet is also a great deal more expensive [by a factor of 15]).

This is important because the crafting of poisons seems off and confusing, both.

One of the cheapest poisons (Oil of Taggit) in the sample list is 90gp to buy. This is for one application of a single poison. Without doing the math right here, my initial estimate is that for an average 4th level poisoner rogue with access to an alchemical lab, crafting this poison is going to take anywhere from a couple of weeks to a full month - for one dose for one attack for one of the cheapest poisons. And it doesn't get much faster very quickly as the rogue increases in level, either.

And if the rogue doesn't make the poisons themselves, they are generally cost prohibitive, with the exception of just a few.

This means that the 4th level rogue can spend a couple of weeks to make a single dose of a poison that has a 50% chance of resistance, but can knock someone out (after a minute) for 1 to 3 hours. Or can spend several months making a poison that is likely to do no more than 2d3 wisdom damage to any opponent of note (6 consecutive save opportunities).

Quick math here using sample poisons list:

Oil of Taggit (900sp) - Assuming DC 10 (typical item) and average Craft: Alchemy roll of 25. This is equivalent to almost 4 weeks worth of work.

Oil of Taggit (900sp) - Assuming DC 15 (high quality item) and average Craft: Alchemy roll of 25. This is equivalent to almost 2 weeks worth of work.

So, it's quicker for the Poisoner Rogue to create a high quality item than a typical item of equivalent coin value.

Finally, if the Rogue takes the challenge to "work fast", the DC increases by 10, for the following results.

Oil of Taggit (900sp) - Assuming DC 20 (typical item) and average Craft: Alchemy roll of 25. This is equivalent to almost 2 weeks worth of work, but will fail a quarter of the time, increasing the overall time to completion.

Oil of Taggit (900sp) - Assuming DC 25 (high quality item) and average Craft: Alchemy roll of 25. This is equivalent to just over 1 week worth of work, but is going to fail half the time, thus doubling the time to completion.

So, I think it's clear that I have no idea how to properly institute poison crafting correctly. But all of the options above fairly stink for a single dose of poison to be used for a single attack somewhere far into the future for a very cheap type of poison.

Does poison application work like weapon blanches?

In other words, do you get 1 application to a weapon and 10 applications to ammunition? If so, that makes the ammunition mighty powerful, but if not... 1 dose? for 1 month's worth of work? for 1 attack? for a cheap poison? Ouch.


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I'm just curious, how does a weasel ever hurt anyone and not heal them with a bite that does 1d3-4 dmg. I'm sure this question has been asked before, but I kept getting lost in all the Negative Damage posts.


So, I'm trying to figure out how surprise rounds work when the parties are aware of each other, but not certain that combat will take place. The problem in my mind is that combat, in these cases, is not triggered until a hostile action actually occurs. So, I can't very well start the combat by saying, "everyone roll initiative". Because, then when a player rolls higher than the opposition, he knows combat is coming.

Sure, if he's good at not meta-gaming, then no problem, he would just first wait to be attacked. But if he's not good at it, then he knows he gets the flat-footed restriction and all of that.

On the other hand, perhaps a sense-motive to know that his opponent(s) intend(s) to attack (with situational penalties for distance and ambient noise)?

Of course, the reversal of this situation is relevant to. How about the NPCs if they don't know the PCs are going to attack? It could work either way.

A couple of scenarios are listed below. I would appreciate your suggestions on how combat might reasonably occur.

Scenario 1:

A PC and NPC are in a bar. The NPC has clumsily (maybe not?) spilled a beer on the PC and the PC demands an apology. An argument ensues and they are face-to-face yelling at each other. The NPC is riled up enough that he takes the first swing. Is that a surprise round? Or does everyone roll initiative and he just happens to go first? Keep in mind that only an idiot PC, at this point, would not consider that violence is possible and not be ready.

Scenario 2:

A group of adventurers are on horseback riding across the plains of a wild, frontier land, populated with many aggressive and non-aggressive tribal natives. In the distance they see, coming towards them, another group of people on horseback--perhaps aggressive tribal nomads, perhaps peaceful tribal nomads, perhaps another band of traveling adventurers, perhaps just traveling merchants. The PCs are waiting to determine hostility level before making any attacks. Turns out that it's a group of hostile raiders from a local tribe of cannibals. As they get within a couple hundred feet, the nomads start shooting longbows. Again, the party would be naive to consider themselves safe from attack and would instead be ready.

Both scenarios are commonplace type of scenarios. My question is, how do you go about initiating combat in these cases--who rolls first? is there a surprise round? etc...

Thanks for this remedial advice.


That I don't know the answers to and I know you guys can answer practically instantly:

1) Traps. They have a perception check to notice them that often states something like DC30; Trigger: Proxity (or maybe Location).

So, my question is, who rolls the die to beat that DC 30 perception and at what point? 5 feet away? 10 feet?

2) Disease: Consider the dire rat - Disease (Ex) Filth fever: Bite—injury; save Fort DC 11; onset 1d3 days; frequency 1/day; effect 1d3 Dex damage and 1d3 Con damage; cure 2 consecutive saves. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Character gets bit. Character rolls or GM rolls for the character? Failure means that in 1 -> 3 days the character takes damage and this happens each day thereafter (frequency 1 day), right? But how often do they get to save? If they save once, do they still take the damage and keep taking damage until the second save?

3) What does it mean for a Fortitude save with a DC 25 to be a Charisma-based DC?

4) 3D combat (water/sky) - what's the easiest way to get a handle on the rules and representation on the map for this (now i'm just looking for advice)?


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After discussing the issue with several people under the rules discussion section of the forums (http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5dk7?Intimidate-Again). Some people don't think it's an important thing to consider, I do. So, I thought I'd provide a possible rewrite to the Intimidate skill here to be more consistent with Bluff and Diplomacy as well as taking into account various factors that seem to be ignored. Obviously, as with all RP skills, common sense is your guide, but this should help provide consistency in judgment. New text uses the blue "out of character" font. Regardless of whether you consider it necessary or not, I'd appreciate your critique and suggestions of the additions here.

Intimidate (Cha)

You can use this skill to frighten an opponent or to get them to act in a way that benefits you. This skill includes verbal threats and displays of prowess.

Check: You can use Intimidate to force an opponent to act friendly toward you for 1d6 × 10 minutes with a successful check. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier + half the total Hit Die of the opponent's allies in support/immediate vicinity that the opponent believes will give support. If successful, the target gives you the information you desire, takes actions that do not endanger it, or otherwise offers limited assistance. After the Intimidate expires, the target treats you as unfriendly and may report you to local authorities. If you fail this check by 5 or more, the target attempts to deceive you or otherwise hinder your activities.

Circumstances Intimidate Modifier
The target is impressed by you or your reputation -5
The target looks down on you or your reputation +5
The target is war-like (accustomed to facing down threatening language and behavior: e.g. guard, bandit, mercenary) +5
The target holds a low leadership position (someone who leads in a world of threatening language and behavior: e.g. captain of the guard, knight-errant, bandit leader) +5
The target holds a high leadership position (e.g. battalion commanders, generals, heads of armies or army divisions): +10
The target holds the top or near-the-top leadership position of entire nations or tribes +20
The target considers helping you a greater threat than not helping you +20
The target considers the demand/request to be morally/ethically objectionable +5 or more
The target is Unfriendly +5
The target is Hostile +10

Successfully intimidated opponents may take actions that endanger it so long as it perceives the consequential danger to be less imminent, threatening, or severe than that posed by the intimidating player, at the GM's discretion. Alternatively, a highly moral person can overcome intimidation if asked to do that which is objectionable to that person's belief system. Requiring an opponent do something it would not normally do requires opposing Charisma rolls.

Circumstances Opponent’s Charisma Modifier
Give simple advice, directions, information -5
Give detailed advice, directions, information +0
Give simple aid +0
Reveal an unimportant secret +5
Give lengthy or complicated aid +5
Give dangerous aid +10
Reveal important secret knowledge +10 or more
Give aid that will result in harm/punishment +15 or more
Each failed Opposed Charisma rolls adds cumulative +5 to future rolls

Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause an opponent to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten an opponent in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you. Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.

Action: Using Intimidate to change an opponent's attitude requires 1 minute of conversation. Demoralizing an opponent is a standard action.
Try Again: You can attempt to Intimidate an opponent again, but each additional check increases the DC by +5. This increase resets after 1 hour has passed.

Special: You also gain a +4 bonus on Intimidate checks if you are larger than your target and a –4 penalty on Intimidate checks if you are smaller than your target.

You gain a bonus equal to half the total HD of your allies assisting you on your Intimidate check (instead of the normal +2).

If you have the Persuasive feat, you get a bonus on Intimidate checks.

A half-orc gets a +2 bonus on Intimidate checks.


I did search. I really did. But I gave up after page 10 of the slow-loading paizo forums of 200+ resulting pages from searching for "intimidate". :)

So, a player created the Inquisitor. I love the character as it tends to put a heavier emphasis on roleplay than I'm used to seeing out of players. That said, the intimidate feature seems so "loaded". On the one hand, I don't want to nerf the player's resource allocation, but on the other hand, I don't want NPCs to act out of character.

The intimidate skill, in a nutshell, reads as follows: "If successful, the target gives you the information you desire, takes actions that do not endanger it, or otherwise offers limited assistance." This last part, 'limited assistance', is the most vague issue. How do you limit someone's assistance when they're scared/terrified. DC is 12, Inquistor makes an intimidate roll of 32. By multiples of 5, that's a success * 4. Now, I know multiples of success are meaningless here, but it means something to the player. How scary is the big bad Inquisitor? 32!

Some preliminary thoughts - for the Inquisitor, diplomacy and inimidation are valuable assets. With limited resources invested in these skills, they shouldn't be ignored. As I said, I especially like the fact that the player has so much invested in such a role-playing element (even though it has a combat value, as well), so there should be role-playing reward for that. The player has said, by making these investments, "I want a scary, intimidating character. I also want a strongly diplomatic character." As his GM, I want to accomodate that.

So, I came up with a few scenarios and I'd like to see how everyone handles them from a rules + *role playing* POV, if they would.

1) PC walks into a dungeon and sees a prisoner being treated (justified or otherwise) in a rather shabby way. He turns to one of the two low level guards and "intimidates" the guy. Then demands he go and get water for the prisoner. You say?

2) PC walks up to the squad of knights being led by a bureaucrat and "intimidates" him into taking his squad of knights and leaving before the PC roasts him on a spit. You say?

3) 1st level PC walks up to an orc guarding a pie and intimidates him and takes the pie. You say?

4) PC stands before the King in the King's throne room and intimidates him into abdicating the throne to the PC ("Your majesty. I see 6 guards standing nearby. They might get me, but not before I jump across this intervening space and stick my rusty poker in your eye. Come down off that throne and hand me the crown, or end your life here!").

5) 3rd level Inquisitor intimidates the 12th level mercenary into opening the gate into the settlement. 10 + 12(hd) + 1 (wis) = 23 [easily obtainable by a 3rd level Inquisitor].

6) Prisoner (villager) being led off to the dungeon by a single guard intimidates the guard into slipping him a key to his shackles ("You think I'm helpless? I've been in worse straights. For example, I could wrap these chains around your neck and choke the life from you. But I like you. I've known you since you were a kid. Give me the key when you put me in the cell and I'll say, if they catch me, that I picked your pocket. But if you don't... I promise you... you will pay. That one time when you're not looking, I'll snatch your breath away, boy!"). You say?

Edit: For what it's worth, I came up with the following "house rules" to help, but I don't know if they're sufficient number-wise:

2a) Successfully intimidated opponents may take actions that endanger it so long as it perceives the consequential danger to be less imminent, threatening, or severe than that posed by the intimidating player, at the GM's discretion. Alternatively, a highly moral person can overcome intimidation if asked to do that which is objectionable to that person's belief system ("I'd lay down my life before standing by for you to torture that child!").

2b) Circumstance bonuses and penalties will be applied according to the nature of the target (at GM discretion). For example, a guard who deals with threats regularly may receive a +5 circumstance bonus, while a sergeant of the guard might receive a +10. A king is likely to receive a +30 as he perceives himself to be completely in charge and has been trained from birth, as a leader, to face down threats.

2c) Circumstance bonuses and penalties will be applied according to the nature of one's allies. Half of the total HD of opponent's allies in immediate vicinity/support will be added to the DC. Half the total HD of the intimidator's allies assisting in the intimidation will be added to the intimidator's roll. (This helps prevent the 5th level barbarian from cowing a person backed by a squad of knights.)


1) Order #1690360: I purchased the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path. I recently read that these were released prior to the release of the Pathfinder RPG rules. Will I need to do conversion to use this product?

2) Order #1691037: I purchase an Adventure Path subscription and was shipped Carrion Crown #3: Broken Moon. I received a discount off the cover price and the .pdf version was installed into my account's My Downloads. However, that clearly isn't sufficient, so I recently ordered installments #1 and #2 of Carrion Crown and am eagerly awaiting those and #4 to arrive per my subscription. I said all that to say that I was notified that #1 and #2 were being shipped two days ago, but I don't see the .pdf versions in My Downloads. Will they be added at some point?