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So the party i GM is assaulting a wizard's tower. They triggered a Symbol of Persuasion Heightened to a lvl 8 spell. 4 out of 5 players failed the DC and those charmed where compelled by the spell to " Split up and half go explore the lower levels of the tower while the rest make their way to the upper levels" Some argues this is not something the party would do and after some turns i allowed a Charisma Roll opposed to the Wizard who is an Enchanter lvl 15.

In the lower levels the wizard created monsters namely monstrous humanoids (a four armed advanced gargoyle and some hill giants abominations i.e. hill giant with a permanent monstrous physique spell). The monsters are not allies but simply dominated by the Wizard. While the 2 players are fighting the monsters, the wizard teleported invisibly in the lower levels and also summoned a Bone Devil, and an Illusion of another Wizard (his apprentice) casting. The illusion was supposed to printed to aid the players but they immediately attacked it. Eventually 1 player dies and the other released this is way to dangerous and although still charmed,i allowed him to make another opposed charisma check to resist the command and made his way out of the lower levels but still risks death from poison.

Those who are venturing to the upper levels (a fighter, a bard and a wizard) are facing a hall with rooms. The problem is this hall is under the effect of a Mirage Arcana spell and illusionary walls turn the hall and rooms into a form of labyrinth (I rolled for saves vs illusions but no success). The labyrinth is also trapped with Symbols of Striking and Shadows who are usually dormant but attack anything which is not the Wizard and his apprentice. These shadows where created casting Create Greater Undead and the Wizard, Fighter and Bard have all but been beaten up by the shadows (Strength 10 between themselves)

I fear a party wipe imminent but i want to make sure i did things right so i can sleep well without guilt :P

1: Is it possible to use Symbol of Persuasion to suggest that those effected split up and look for their wizard (now friend) in various locations throughout the tower at the same time. I understand that if a suggestion not usually done by those effected, an opposed charisma is due.

2: The charm breaks is the Wizard or his "apparent allies" attack the players. But should you assume that the monsters the wizard test's on (which hate him in reality but are dominated) and the shadows who were created by him are his "apparent allies". The players never saw him giving these creatures any orders to attack the players. Such orders where given from before.

3: Does summoning a creature from invisibility count as the wizard attacking the party.

4: At the end of it all, once the players who are still charmed meet the wizard he could always say "you have liberated me from my prison by killing those monsters now let me show my gratitude......my friends....mwmahahahah"

Sorry for long post but had to explain my self.


Speak With Dead: If corps succeeds on will save, it can refuse to answer or use bluff. The one casting the spell and asking questions can use Sense Motive or not?


My friends and players are requesting that if a spell has a specific material component with gold cost, they just pay the cost in gold instead of having to keep track of such materials. I would like to agree with them since it will simplify the tedious book keeping. But i also worry if this would unbalance some spells and class features. What is your opinion as DMs


Well if an Official Pathfinder Developer says so, it must be so. Thanks for your help guys. Have a wonderful Christmas.


Chess Pwn wrote:
nope, it says barbarian and only barbarians. I asked Mark, a DEV, and that's what he said.

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Who is DEV please?


The helm has no effect if the wearer is not a barbarian (or another class with the rage class feature). The fact is says "or another class with the rage class feature" i presume means that even although a class would have a Rage similar to a barbarian's rage, the fact a Bloodrager is not a Barbarian, he cannot use the helmet. Am i right?


So i have a player playing a Bloodrager and insists that he can use the Helm of Fearsome Mien. I tell him he cannot use it since he needs to be a barbarian to use it without Use Magical Device. He insist that since Bloodrage works like Barberian Rage he can use the item. Is this right? Can a Bloodrager use it? Can any class with Rage (or similar) use the Helm of Fearsome Mien