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Vic Wertz wrote:
Thank you, Kruelaid and Mr. Wertz. I posted my message in the alpha 1 feedback area. I had a suggestion or two concerning product tie ins with the pathfinder RPG. I'm hoping this is the best forum for this; if not, please let me know, and i'll post it where suggested. You know how wotc has the D&D minis game and the D&D basic game? well, what if paizo got together with fantasy flight games and produced "pathfinder: the board game - deluxe edition" and "pathfinder: the board game - basic edition"? I recently bought "Descent: journeys into the dark" and "world of warcraft: the board game" for the pieces they contained. descent came with 60 plastic monsters and 20 plastic heroes, all unpainted, as well as 12 cardboard tiles which contained rooms, corridoors, and all sorts of tokens and markers, like treasure chests, doors, traps, etc...did I mention it's all 1" scale? world of warcraft came with 120 monsters and 16 heroes, as well as a ton of cardboard tokens. the monsters are slightly larger scale than D&D monsters, but they are soooo close. Like I said, I bought them to use when we play D&D; the fact that I can play a complete, stand alone game with either of them is a huge bonus. let's look at 'pathfinder: the board game - deluxe edition' first. what if you took some pathfinder RPG quick start rules, 1 male and one female mini of each class in the RPG, 10 orcs, 10 goblins, 10 trolls, 10 skeletons, etc.... 10 each of the 'really common low level monsters from the SRD', say, 120 monsters in all, about 12 cardboard sheets that contained dungeon tiles, treasure chests, some wands, scrolls, chairs, tables, doors, traps, effect markers, etc... three sets of dice, a quick start DMG, and sold it for about 80.00? would it sell? is there a way to see how well descent and WoW: the boardgame are selling? you could have 'monster packs' as well. one of the things that turned me off of D&D minis is 1. they're expensive, and 2. I don't know what i'm getting, and all I wanted were 'basic monsters', not 'brass samurai'. monster packs would be a product for people like me, who wanted 'common skeletons, zombies, and orcs'. not only that, but as long as they were the same scale, people who play 4E might buy these just because of the non random factor. unpainted might be a turn off for some, but pricing them lower than D&D minis might lead to more market penetration. hell, are the D&D mini rules closed content? could anybody make stat cards for pathfinder minis and thus have a pathfinder miniatures game as well? third, you could have your own set of 'pathfinder tiles'. these 'expansion' tiles would each contain a specific tileset:dungeons, cities, inns, taverns, ships and boats, and various environments, like desert, swamp, the arctic, caverns, etc.
fourth, you could have 'expansion packs' for the board game which would contain some new plastic minis, some new tiles, and some new scenarios. this would work with either board game, 1" fantasy miniature games, and the pathfinder RPG. lastly, you could have 'pathfinder: the board game - basic edition'. this one would contain rules at least up to level three, maybe all the way up to level six. it would also only contain one set of dice, four, five, or six hero figures, and only three or four of each monster, say 25 total figures, heroes and monsters. it would also only contain one or two cardboard sheets with two or three different rooms and corridoors, a few common tokens, like doors and chests, nothing fancy, just everything someone needed to play a basic board game version of pathfinder. wotc's first and third sets of dungeon tiles are already out of print; if another company could produce a better value product [more for the same price or less for cheaper] I think people would be all over them. by branding them 'pathfinder', having your own line of plastic minis, a 1" fantasy miniature game, and two board games, you could have the potential for a lot of 'related item' sales. HOWEVER, i'm not a beancounter or anything, so paizo would probably be wise to consult people who know more about the cost of manufacture of this stuff versus what people are buying, and how much they're paying for it. still, all this stuff would be 'edition proof', even the board games, so long as the rules were slimmed down. maybe paizo could take a poll of their messageboards to see who'd be down for any of this?
Hello! I posted this originally in http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/general/welcomeToThePathfinderRPG, and 'Kruelaid' was gracious enough to suggest posting in this feedback forum. Dear Ms. Lisa Stevens, Mr. Erik Mona, Mr. Jason Bulmahn, and everybody else working on the new pathfinder RPG, First off, I want all of you to know that i'm VERY excited about you guys releasing a 3.5 product at this particular point in time. i'm not planning to play 4E for a while, as I just started a new 3.5 campaign last month. I've downloaded and read through the alpha version of your pathfinder RPG, and will give you my take on it, but first, I want to discuss what i've read online about initial reactions to your upcoming game. 1. various people at various forums have pointed out that the pathfinder RPG may be marketed to be one of the following:
regardless of which one pathfinder RPG is marketed as, it may not appeal as much to customers of the other group. there's a possible solution, though: MAKE PATHFINDER RPG DO BOTH. allow me to explain... you know how there are various options listed for character advancement on page 9 and starting hit points on page 11? I say make more options like that, but keep the 'core game' as close as possible to 'regular 3.5'. In this manner, pathfinder RPG will function as a replacement for 3.5 AND a variation of 3.5, simultaneously, in one 'core book'. later books could have not only new equipment, spells, and feats, but also new OPTIONAL RULES. It is my opinion that this will give the pathfinder RPG the absolute broadest appeal to customers of BOTH groups.
now, what do I like about the alpha version?
now, what do I NOT like about the alpha version?
2. cross class trained skills
lastly, these are some suggestions that I have that I think may make your pathfinder RPG more versatile and appealing to a broader audience. most of these [the ones that say "SUGGESTION; optional rule - "]are additional optional rules, similar to your 'three rates of advancement' and 'hit points', i.e., the DM running the campaign chooses which ones to use. this is in keeping with the philosophy of 'pathfinder RPG is 3.5 core AND variant rules in one book'. 1. SUGGESTION; remove the category 'cross class trained skills'; let skills picked at later levels be trained class skills instead of trained cross class skills.
2. SUGGESTION; optional rule - allow more 'trained skills' at first level, perhaps 1, 2, or 3 more; let this/these skills be anything the player wants, NOT just a skill listed for that class, let it be treated as a class skill in every way; optionally, reduce amount of new skills gained at later levels, perhaps a new skill every three levels? every four levels?
3. SUGGESTION; optional rule - damage and AC increases, similar to HD and BAB, i.e., good/fair/poor increases? fighter gets best AC and damage increases? Also, at character creation, player chooses what KIND of damage, i.e., melee, ranged, magic, or 'special attacks'...only choose one.
4. SUGGESTION; optional rule - multiple 'elite arrays'; three for 25 point buy, three for 28 point buy, three for 32 point buy.
5. SUGGESTION; roll a few more skills together; include list that shows what '3.5 skills' were rolled into pathfinder rpg skills.
6. SUGGESTION; optional rule - the heal skill allows pc's to recover from light damage. requires herbs, bandages, magic?
7. SUGGESTION; [and optional rule to the suggestion] add the following feat 'skill focus: x; all checks made with this skill are at +3 [optional rule - +4 or +5]', and remove all '+2/+2' feats.
8. SUGGESTION; optional rule - increase rate of attribute increases to +1/every other level or +1/every three levels.
9. SUGGESTION; optional rule - characters receive 70% of their hit die instead of rolling, rounded up. for example, fighters receive 7hp +con bonus every level.
Dear Ms. Lisa Stevens, Mr. Erik Mona, Mr. Jason Bulmahn, and everybody else working on the new pathfinder RPG, First off, I want all of you to know that i'm VERY excited about you guys releasing a 3.5 product at this particular point in time. i'm not planning to play 4E for a while, as I just started a new 3.5 campaign last month. I've downloaded and read through the alpha version of your pathfinder RPG, and will give you my take on it, but first, I want to discuss what i've read online about initial reactions to your upcoming game. 1. various people at various forums have pointed out that the pathfinder RPG may be marketed to be one of the following:
regardless of which one pathfinder RPG is marketed as, it may not appeal as much to customers of the other group. there's a possible solution, though: MAKE PATHFINDER RPG DO BOTH. allow me to explain... you know how there are various options listed for character advancement on page 9 and starting hit points on page 11? I say make more options like that, but keep the 'core game' as close as possible to 'regular 3.5'. In this manner, pathfinder RPG will function as a replacement for 3.5 AND a variation of 3.5, simultaneously, in one 'core book'. later books could have not only new equipment, spells, and feats, but also new OPTIONAL RULES. It is my opinion that this will give the pathfinder RPG the absolute broadest appeal to customers of BOTH groups.
now, what do I like about the alpha version?
now, what do I NOT like about the alpha version?
2. cross class trained skills
lastly, these are some suggestions that I have that I think may make your pathfinder RPG more versatile and appealing to a broader audience. most of these [the ones that say "SUGGESTION; optional rule - "]are additional optional rules, similar to your 'three rates of advancement' and 'hit points', i.e., the DM running the campaign chooses which ones to use. this is in keeping with the philosophy of 'pathfinder RPG is 3.5 core AND variant rules in one book'. 1. SUGGESTION; remove the category 'cross class trained skills'; let skills picked at later levels be trained class skills instead of trained cross class skills.
2. SUGGESTION; optional rule - allow more 'trained skills' at first level, perhaps 1, 2, or 3 more; let this/these skills be anything the player wants, NOT just a skill listed for that class, let it be treated as a class skill in every way; optionally, reduce amount of new skills gained at later levels, perhaps a new skill every three levels? every four levels?
3. SUGGESTION; optional rule - damage and AC increases, similar to HD and BAB, i.e., good/fair/poor increases? fighter gets best AC and damage increases? Also, at character creation, player chooses what KIND of damage, i.e., melee, ranged, magic, or 'special attacks'...only choose one.
4. SUGGESTION; optional rule - multiple 'elite arrays'; three for 25 point buy, three for 28 point buy, three for 32 point buy.
5. SUGGESTION; roll a few more skills together; include list that shows what '3.5 skills' were rolled into pathfinder rpg skills.
6. SUGGESTION; optional rule - the heal skill allows pc's to recover from light damage. requires herbs, bandages, magic?
7. SUGGESTION; [and optional rule to the suggestion] add the following feat 'skill focus: x; all checks made with this skill are at +3 [optional rule - +4 or +5]', and remove all '+2/+2' feats.
8. SUGGESTION; optional rule - increase rate of attribute increases to +1/every other level or +1/every three levels.
9. SUGGESTION; optional rule - characters receive 70% of their hit die instead of rolling, rounded up. for example, fighters receive 7hp +con bonus every level.
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